Reinstate Darth Sapient Petition Thread

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Lord_NoONE, Mar 1, 2004.

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  1. FateNaberrie Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2000
    star 6
    Ah. I seemed to have skimmed over that. Could you please provide the posts where DS said that he wasn't giving out his information because he didn't want to sacrifice his sacred e-anonymity simply for PhilipWise's benefit?

    Sorry Aunecah, you can find those posts in the hacked MS threads, but I can't post them here. Ask around, you'll find them. I promise.


    Or perhaps he realized that it is fairly easy to find someones address on the net, and decided if anyone wants it, well they can get it. So perhaps he just figured out that he might as well give the information, as his identity was not secure anyways and decided "what the hell".


    Funny that despite people repeatedly saying those things BEFORE the demotion...he didn't realize it until afterwards.
  2. Skateboard_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2004
    star 4
    Fate is right

    [image=http://members.aol.com/okkep/truth.gif]
  3. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    the JC just officially jumped the shark.

    Registered: Jan 04 = lol

    Amazing.
  4. Darth_Ignant Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 7
  5. Skateboard_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2004
    star 4
    edited cause i misunderstood.
  6. DarthVegas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2000
    star 4
    Ah Fate,

    *sigh*

    I'm glad Sapes is back. Reinstating himself was a choice he made. He said something he retracted it, and made a decision for himself.

    You know, admitting your wrong is a noble virtue itself. I had Sapes back, but really I had the back of all the mods if you read my signature before. I was fighting for the right to privacy for all mods and it was noble because all of the mods who were dropped were dropped because of this issue of privacy, point blank.

    I cared not about Sapes being reinstated to head boy, although I wanted him back solely because I think he's a stand up mod. But he shouldn't have had to submit his info just be a mod. He wanted to go back, so he complied with Wise's wishes. There's no reason why he shouldn't go back, as he was good at what he did.

    With that said, it's controversial yes, because many others feel as if they were abandoned because they were backing Sapes to fight it all the way, but if you re-read my, Syntax, Cap Obvious, etc. posts you'll see that it really didn't matter how many e-mails you sent to Wise or how much you derided him. Fighting the good fight in the end would prove futile in the House of Wise.

    I'm rambling so... hey... he's back. If you like or don't, it's your choice, but Fate, your signature is a bit harsh, don't you think?
  7. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    "oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize one had to be a bitter ex-mod, or a friend thereof, to have an opinion here."

    I think the point was that you've been here all of two months.
  8. Aunecah_Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 5
    I think Amazing was trying to say that you were here only for a couple of months...


    Edit: Dang it! YodaJeff beat me to it.

    -Aunecah
  9. Skateboard_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2004
    star 4
    so it seems. i spoke too fast. sorry to Amazing and Ignant.
  10. DarthBane420 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2003
    star 5
    posts where DS said that he wasn't giving out his information because he didn't want to sacrifice his sacred e-anonymity

    He was smart enough to post it in the MS, that's why Dags post pushed him into a corner.
    That's why it was equally frustrating to not be able to use that as evidence for the contradictory nature of this whole event.
    Regardless he did admit he did the 180 so I give him credit for that. That took balls and it was a huge step in the correct direction.
    The real tragedy is that DLM, PoT and the rest are now basically left out in the cold while everyone is now fine with moving on.
    I am half tempted to start another thread to get a petition going to get the remaining mods back, I think it's the least they deserve.
  11. FateNaberrie Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2000
    star 6
    Just to excerpt my favorite parts, though I'm replying to the whole thing:

    But he shouldn't have had to submit his info just be a mod.

    Fighting the good fight in the end would prove futile in the House of Wise.


    I'm sorry, you seem to be saying the following

    a)You believe Philip was wrong in requiring the mods to submit their info

    b)Sape also believed Philip was wrong

    c)The only way to gain e-power is by complying with Philip's request, he would not back down on this

    d)It is, therefore, okay for Sapient to give the information to Philip (even though he believed it was wrong to do so i.e. abandon his principles) because that was the only way he would ever regain e-power.


    I'm following correctly yes?
  12. MariahJade2 Former Fan Fiction Archive Editor

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2001
    star 5
    Anyways, back to the betting. Are you betting that Birdy will win or lose? Since apparently the loser will be the new SC, but how can that be if he is dead?

    Dead people have won elections in Philly. They vote too. [face_mischief]

  13. UK Sullustian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1998
    star 4

    "Everyone is fine with moving on".

    Well it's so nice of you to make that decision for everyone....

    .....But not everyone is fine with moving on. I am not "fine with moving on". I want an explantion for this, in a public thread, that will stand up to some cursory level of discussion.

    The JC has (recently) been getting better in the communicatiosn between the mods and the normal users, with an also significant downturn in "Stupid Owner-Actions". I want to see Phil come down here and justify himself in a discussion or just pop back into his ivory tower where he can play with his Porkins(Slave Girl Fatigues) and Princess Leia figures.

    I want a Star Wars community where we are not subjected to the whims and whimsy of one man.

    UKS
  14. Skateboard_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2004
    star 4
    I want a Star Wars community where we are not subjected to the whims and whimsy of one man.


    but it all started with the whims of one man. George Lucas.
  15. UK Sullustian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1998
    star 4

    And for that we got Jar-Jar Binks and Jake Lloyd.

    Besides, Santa is not an Artist. And we are not here for Santa.

    Nice try though.

    UKS
  16. legacyAccount Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2012
    have any of the other demoted mods gotten any additional information? (i haven't)

    are the other demoted mods still in the database at chq? (i am, even after having asked to be removed. you can find out by going here and enterting your username/pw. if it says you don't have administrator privs, you're still in the db)

    have any of the other mods gotten anything even sightly resembling an apology? (i sure as hell haven't)
  17. Errant_Venture Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 6
    The only apology issued was the one he did to the remaining mods. I need to reply to all of the PMs I sent to the demoted mods, I've not had a lot of time yet to do so. But I will, rest assured on that.
  18. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    The only apology issued was the one he did to the remaining mods.

    Weird, I would think the ex-mods are the ones who deserved the apology more than the current ones did.

    That's like running over a dog, then going to the dog owner's neighbor and apologizing for it.
  19. snap-hiss Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 5
    the JC just officially jumped the shark

    Three months and you make claims like that. Wow.


    !snap
  20. DarthVegas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2000
    star 4
    It is, therefore, okay for Sapient to give the information to Philip (even though he believed it was wrong to do so i.e. abandon his principles) because that was the only way he would ever regain e-power.

    Fate,
    It's the choice he made. I think he just wanted to be a mod again because he was good at it. He felt it was wrong to give his info but realized he had no choice in the matter. Yes I believe Wise would not have changed his mind unless something very radical came about, (which I think was everyone who behind Sapes intentions), but what guys like Bane etc. were saying was it was pointless.

    What I was saying was it was pointless because there was money involved on Wise's part and the only radical position Sapes could take to get back into head boy position without submitting info was if he brought about a profitable solution to the situation.

    In the end, Sapes made a choice. Who's to say if it's right or wrong? He didn't just jump back into being a mod, he left several threads stating why he was doing what he was doing. He left several threads before that stating that he was unsure if he should even continue trying to fight this because he felt it was getting nowhere and he was getting pro's and con's and very tough questions from all sides.

    He did not just jump back in and say never mind, nyah nyah!

    He made a choice and spoke up about it and explained to all us users and ex-mods and mods when he didn't have to really, and that's that.

  21. legacyAccount Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2012
    yeah, what rg said.

    nothing against the current mods. y'all know i love you [face_love] but an apology that he gave to you guys doesn't mean all that much to me. if he'd wanted to apologize to us, he would have. but unless he said in the apology something along the lines of "and i wish the former mods could see this because i'd like to apologize to them too," it means little to me. and i'm not really expecting that, but if it happened, i'd be pleasantly surprised.
  22. FateNaberrie Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2000
    star 6
    He felt it was wrong to give his info but realized he had no choice in the matter.


    This is the real issue here. He felt it was wrong, and he did have a choice. His choice was to

    a)do what he believed was right and be demoted

    b)go against what he believed was right to stay a mod

    How is that hard for you to grasp? If you believe that Sape still thinks it's wrong to give his info, then you must believe that he abandoned his principles, just to be a moderator on a star wars message board. It's not rocket science, it's the logical step here.
  23. DarthVegas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2000
    star 4
    I guess that depends on how you would define his principles, Fate.

    To me, abondoning his principles would be to simply say, "Well, I want to be head boy so screw it." without any other type of explanation.

    We saw Sapes at a stalemate with himself because he told us. To me, he was standing for his principles. He told us and explained to us how he felt and why he did what he did.

    Now as far as his principles regarding the Right to Privacy. Well...

    There it is then.
  24. Vertical Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 1999
    star 6

    a)do what he believed was right and be demoted

    b)go against what he believed was right to stay a mod

    How is that hard for you to grasp? If you believe that Sape still thinks it's wrong to give his info, then you must believe that he abandoned his principles, just to be a moderator on a star wars message board. It's not rocket science, it's the logical step here.
    />
    Actually, I see a few more choices here:

    a) After further consideration and communication, determine that yes, your initial reaction was the correct one, and that you do not feel comfortable giving your personal information to Philip Wise. End result: demotion.

    b) After further consideration and communication, determine that no, your initial reaction was not the correct one, and that you feel comfortable giving your personal information to Philip Wise. End result: re-instatement.

    c) Conclude that regardless of your personal feelings towards privacy, you want your modship back, and as such, you provide Philip Wise with your personal information. End result: re-instatement.

    d) Conclude that regardless of any further discussions or communications or apologies from Philip Wise, your privacy is more important than your position at the JC, and as such, you will not provide Philip Wise with your personal information. End result: demotion.

    Choices a and b involved considering the matter further, opting for discussion and communication as opposed to putting your foot down, and slamming the door on communications (options c and d). If one of your principles in life is to always try and discuss things and work things through, regardless of emotions, then options a and b are perfectly valid choices, and well within one's principles, even if it means admitting that your initial reaction was not the correct one.

    Choices c and d involve sticking by something you value. If you value your position at the JC more than you value your privacy, option c is for you. If you value your privacy more than you value your position at the JC, option d is for you.

    I think Sapient stated over and over that the reason he was posting here was because it was the only avenue of on-board communication with Philip and the other Moderators, since he no longer had access to MS. He was also clearly discussing things privately with Philip via email. To me, this indicates that he was always open to communication and further discussion on the matter.

    While he initially may have felt that his privacy trumped his position, that could have been due to his view on how much his privacy would be compromised - the degree to which his information would be compromised.

    Anyway... my point is - it's possible that the situation isn't as simplistic as you're boiling it down to. I doubt you're going to change your mind in regards to Sape, though. I'm sure you're still convinced he's guilty of backwards priorities, and perhaps you're right.

    I only want to point out that perhaps another principle - that of communicating through a matter - could surpass and influence other principles.

    Principles can change, you know. Sometimes that's the sign of an open mind.

    Vertical/>/>
  25. Darth_Ignant Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 7
    Screw principles, Sapes said he was fine with the info once he looked into it. And that is absolutely fine with me. I absolutely believe the better informed about something you the better a decision you can make, and I think it shows a keen mind that can change rather be narrow. I just want to know why he didn't look into it from the offset before kicking up such a fuss and causing a piece of drama Tessark itself (the father, the daughter and the holy transgendered spirit of !DRAMA! Amen/woman/it) would be proud of.
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