Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Legacy Jedi Endordude, Dec 21, 2012.
I think Qui-Gon was relateable to alot of people. A guy who is good, but a bit of a rebel.
Do you feel like other people you have observed act out childishly like Anakin does when confronted with these types of feelings, or do you think they mostly have the coping skills to deal with it?
Both. One of the things that really helped me was that I had my family to rely on to help me cope, something which Anakin did not have. It also helped that I wasn't put into a situation in which these stabilizing emotional attachments were maligned. One of the things I very much liked about Anakin is that he was both immature and mature at the same time -- he might complain about Obi-Wan, but at the same time, he'd risk his life for the man many times over.
Lack of coping skills is actually pretty common. There are entire industries based on it.
I won't speak for PiettsHat and you of course are entitled to feel however you do about how Anakin reacted to his situation, however, how Anakin reacted and how Anakin felt are separate issues. It is possible to understand how Anakin felt without condoning how he reacted. I did so myself at several points in the movies, although his reaction didn't anger me the way it obviously angers you.
Relatable, to me, isn't really well defined, it can mean a lot of things. So I'll just ramble.
Anakin: I did have a huge problem with how ungrateful this kid was, especially for someone who used to be a slave. I come from a lower class family, so it's hard for me to relate to someone who had nothing, but now has everything and it's just not enough for him. It's hard for me to tolerate a braggart, someone who talks about how powerful he is and is actually serious. It's hard for me to relate to someone who massacres his family over nothing, really. It's hard for me to relate to someone who actually thinks he can cheat death.
The biggest thing is that I just don't like Anakin in any way, he doesn't amuse me, his personality is ****. I couldn't stand to be in the same room with the guy for more than 5 minutes. And yes, being likable can be a big part of being relatable. It's easier to relate to someone you like, yes?
Obi-Wan: I guess I find him relatable enough. He's humble and he just seems like he's just doing the best he can. He keeps his sense of humor on him at all times.
Padme: Hard to relate to someone who falls for a total creeper. Can't say I liked her going from in charge to crying wife. I don't find losing the will to live and actually dying at all relatable.
Qui-Gon: Can't say I relate to his whole philosophical personality.
Palpatine: He's a scheming fiend, but he really enjoys the fruits of his labor. It's good to see him laugh his *** off once he pulls the whole thing off. Seems like a guy I could hang out with. Pretty relatable for the Devil, but then again I guess the Devil would be a relatable dude.
Anakin failed his Jedi test, the others didn't.
He was promoted to Knight, which imo he didn't earn.
He was given a spot on the Council, which imo he didn't earn.
He wanted a promotion to Master, which imo he wasn't even close to.
Oh, I don't disagree with you that Anakin wasn't ready to be a Knight, let alone a Master (it always struck me as odd that Anakin was a Knight after only 13 years of training max when Obi-Wan is still a padawan at age 25, but I attributed that to the role the Clone Wars played).
But my initial response was in regards to KilroyMcFadden's contention that the films didn't depict Anakin as earning anything because he was trained and given the life of a Jedi due to Qui-Gon's wish rather than anything he did.
My point was simply that there's not a single Jedi that was "given" the life of a Jedi due to anything they did. Obi-Wan, Mace, Kit Fisto, etc. were all very young children or babies when they were brought to the Temple due to their Force potential. So I don't see how Anakin "earned" the privilege of Jedi training any less than those individuals did. If the claim is that Anakin didn't do anything to deserve his training, well then, my question would simply be "who did?" since everyone else was inducted long before they had accomplished anything of note.
I feel that the moral ambiguity for the majority of the characters in the PT makes them very relatable. Perhaps too relatable for any real comfort.
I suspect that many want to relate to the OT characters. Although they had their flaws, they were more ideal and sympathetic. The PT characters were more flawed and morally ambiguous, leading many to claim that they were not easy to relate to.
I believe that the OT characters were closer to what many wanted to be like . . . and the PT characters were closer to what most human beings were really like.
I realized I only did Anakin and Obi-Wan.
Padme: I could relate to her in some scenes, not so much in others. I admired her leadership skills in TPM and her advocacy for peace in AOTC--the latter I could definitely relate to. ROTS really downgraded her role as a strong woman and a leader, which was pathetic, and I couldn't relate to her in the end. I wouldn't have chased Anakin to Mustafar after getting that information from Obi-Wan nor would I have believed there was "still good in him" at the end. I liked that she did that, just as I like that Luke did the same in ROTJ, but as far as relatable behavior, no. Waiting for him to get back and meeting him with armed guards to tell him to stay the **** out of her apartment would have been relatable. But it wouldn't have been Padme, not in that film.
Qui-Gon: I love the man, and I think some of his lines are the most spot-on in the entire saga. "Your focus determines your reality." I can relate to his being a free thinker who will question the rules if they don't make sense, far more so than I can relate to Obi-Wan who is by-the-book where the Council is concerned. So, yeah...relatable.
Palpatine: Not at all, and not just because he's the epitome of evil in the story. He spends the entire prequels faking concern for the very people he really couldn't stand and/or blowing sunshine up their asses. I'm very "what you see is what you get" and couldn't do that for five seconds, even as a means to an end.
Mace Windu: Again, love him, he's a badass. "This party's over" is the way I would have broken up the Geonosis battle as well if I could have. And he's the only Jedi (Ok, the only ideal Jedi) who sometimes taps into his inner aggression to solve problems (do a search for Vaapad on Wook), and I find that much more "real" than the Jesus/Ghandi/Martin Luther King ideal that the rest of the Jedi seem to espouse. So again, yeah, relatable.
Yoda: Nope. Maybe when nine hundred years old I reach, that Zen I will be, but now...not at all.
Anakin hands down, I knew what it was like to be thought of as nothing at points in my life, while people after that tried to show me compassion, I just assumed they were there to take advantage of me just like those in my past. I know it isn't proven that's what Anakin thought, but that sure had a familiar feeling to it.
Relatable as understandable? Then I can relate to Anakin, but I can still dislike him in AoTC. He didn't need to be heroic in the movies; I wanted to see a normal, good guy who made some wrong choices and got sucked down the wrong path in life. I saw an angsty, rebellious teen who mouthed off - sure, that wasn't the only Anakin we saw, but it did leave a lasting impression that I can't quite shake off.
Relatable as having something in common? Then I can't really relate to Anakin as I wasn't the rebellious, angsty teen (not to say I was an adolescent angel, hah).
Whereas I was responsible for every grey hair on my parents' heads. They coasted through my siblings' adolescences after experiencing mine.
Conversations like this are always interesting because we bring our own life perspectives into it.
Oh, so very true. And our experiences color our perceptions, which is why I enjoy discussions with others who see things different because while I am human and favor my viewpoint, I try to be open-minded and see other possibilities.
So young Anakin was unrelatable, yet young Luke (in ANH) is perfectly relatable? Yeah, ok.
When we met Luke he was just regular 19 or 20 year old guy who swooshed model spaceships around wanted to hang out with his friends at Tosche station but was stuck at home doing chores. When we met Anakin he was a 9 year old slave who was forced by his owner, (and was talented enough,) to race the galaxy's equivalent to Nascar or Formula vehicles. One of those people is like almost everyone I know, and one of those people is like literally no one I've ever met.
So . . . you're comparing the characters based on how they relate to the late 20th century, instead of their personalities?
Anakin is not the only one who's stubborn, argumentative and not always respectful of authority figures. Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Luke are quite similar in that respect. Something tells me Mace rubbed a lot of folks wrong when he was younger. In fact, there's not a single flaw of Anakin's that can't be attributed to other Jedi. Even Yoda admits the Jedi have grown too arrogant.
Episode I - Qui-Gon Jinn
Episode II - Anakin Skywalker
Episode III - Obi-Wan Kenobi
So true. A friend of mine in the military didn't like Anakin in AOTC only because of his arguing with Obi-Wan after Padme has fallen off the transport. In his eyes, it was a major failure for someone in a militaristic order. Other disobedience (i.e. going to Tatooine) didn't bother him much as it wasn't in the middle of the combat.
On the other hand, my mother, after seeing, ROTS, said that Anakin has clearly never gotten completely free of his slave background. For someone who was a slave, the world was often divided into two categories: slaves or masters. If he's not a slave, than he's everyone's master (as befit for a Chosen One, in Anakin's opinion). Ironically, he ended up being a slave to Sidious and his own darkness until the act of love finally freed him.
It's interesting that my mother, who hasn't seen any Star Wars movie more than twice, has picked up on something that a lot of fans miss.
Yor mother has a point!
Depends - I didn't miss that. It doesn't change my opinion. It affects whether or not I understand where Anakin is coming from, which I do, but I didn't like his attitude regardless of "why" - and there were a lot of "why's" behind it. It may have helped me to see his "inner dialogue" at such times, but movies don't allow for that - and the gap between TPM and AoTC Anakin is just not well bridged in the movies IMHO.
And Han Solo flew a spaceship that could make the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs and had a furry 7+ foot buddy than can rip people's arms out of their sockets backing him up. Yet, he was still "relatable."
Han basically drives a semi and smuggles drugs. That is a thing that really happens.
I love how easily you attempt to move the goalposts here.
"Feeding the troll" a little bit here:
Yet he was suddenly able to pilot the equivalent of an F-16 without any training or license.
I don't know many people who can do that, but maybe it's just me...
Instead of arguing semantics, can we at least agree that the term "relatable" is relative and depends on one's life experiences?