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Rogue One Relationship of Chirrut Îmwe and Baze Malbus

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Anthology (Released Films)' started by SateleNovelist11, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. Endor_boy

    Endor_boy Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2013
    I don't see people questioning that relationship in the same way though.
     
  2. Endor_boy

    Endor_boy Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2013
    All interpretations are valid sounds good on the surface, but when you get openly straight couples and all your potential gays are open to interpretations, it's a pretty unsatisfying situation. It's not as if gay and straight couples are being presented with any kind of equality that way.
    Being open to interpretations is an improvement over no representation at all, but not by much.
     
    Strilo likes this.
  3. Avnar

    Avnar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    I was being polite - I don't think Chirrut and Baze are gay at all... [face_peace] If you want a civil discussion about it I am all ears - But if you are just picking a fight I have no interest. I have no dog in this fight :cool:

    "Open to interpretation" also applies to Jyn and Cassian. I think SW is avoiding romance after the horrible backlash towards Anakin and Padme to be honest. That's why i think a lot of it has been left out...

    "That it was left so ambiguous makes me think the intention was for them to be gay but done with plausible deniability. It's frustrating to only see yourself in covert, hidden in plain sight ways."

    I take it you are not impressed SW has not had an openly gay couple and you feel aggrieved by that...am I correct? If that is the case, let me say I think it is only a matter of time... But even when they do - then what? Does that somehow improve the GFFA for you personally? Should I feel aggrieved that there is no Australian guy throwing a boomerang around with his actual accent intact...because I am Australian?? Who am I going to identify with?? Do we really have to rely on SW to right the wrongs in our world...? :cool:

    *please read in a light hearted tone*
     
  4. Endor_boy

    Endor_boy Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 24, 2013
    I don't feel I was picking a fight. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm trying to fight.
    I think there's a difference between an oppressed minority looking for representation and saying you want someone exactly like you in the movie.
    Would it improve the GFFA for me? In some ways, yes. Wanting inclusion isn't exclusive to also wanting quality films, but feeling included is a positive, yes.
    I don't think I called for SW to right the wrongs in the world, but it's art, and art does influence society.
    The novels and comics have been far more inclusive. Not much in the Legends, a couple of characters barely referred to as gay, but the new canon has been more progressive. So SW is going there, it's just always safer to do that in spin off media that aren't going to reach as many people.
     
  5. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    If you perceive Baze and Chirrut as brothers, it's interesting to think of it as a competition in the midst of a partnership. Baze has grown cynical, whilst Chirrut has become spiritual. I admit I was paying more attention to K2 than them during the first time I viewed the film. There's an argument to be made that Jyn, Cassian, K, Baze, and Chirrut are all better written than Bodhi, as some viewers do not think he was given enough incentive to betray the Empire. I do no subscribe to that view, but I can see why they perceive that.

    At any rate, I can see why Baze would view himself as Chirrut's older brother.
     
  6. Avnar

    Avnar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    No probs - That's why I said "If" [face_peace]

    Alright lets say Disney give you what you want (and no doubt many others) - Fair request. In this day and age no-one wants to feel excluded... Scratch that, No-one ever wanted to feel excluded! Lets say they put an openly gay person in the film - Then what? How will you feel if they are the villain? What about if they are the traitor in the film? What happens if the portrayal is not well received because it stereo types? What happens if they don't kiss on screen? What happens if they die? What happens if they don't "save the day" ??? [face_thinking] It will be interesting no doubt BUT they can't feel as though the person can only be the hero otherwise there will be backlash no-matter what they do with the character - and there will be! No doubt in my mind.

    Curious - How will you feel if the character/s are anything short of the hero of the film? :cool:
     
    Ricardo Funes likes this.
  7. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    This discussion is off-topic. It can be discussed in one of the diversity threads (in either the TLJ or Anthology forums) or you can create a diversity thread in the No Spoilers Allowed forum. But it's too broad for this thread.
     
    TCF-1138 , Avnar and Pro Scoundrel like this.
  8. Avnar

    Avnar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Fair enough...
     
  9. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Again I think the intension really was just to show a close very familiar connection between them, I think the story works just as well whether you consider than to be friendship or romantic so not reason to highlight whether it was one or the other.
     
    SateleNovelist11 likes this.
  10. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Baze was concerned with Chirrut's blindness. He was like the older brother who was willing to protect him at all costs. Chirrut was more concerned with Baze's spiritual blindness. He wanted him to regain faith in the Force.

    Personally, many of you know that I vacillate between viewing the Force as some sort of exaggeration of Taoism...or as some animistic form of pantheism. I tend to espouse the view in the old EU that the Force can be used in different ways by good people, bad people, and morally ambiguous and ambivalent people. It's the actions of individuals that determine what you can do with the Force more than the light side and dark side.

    Chirrut was using the Force to heighten his senses. Jensaarai1 and his fellow YouTube presenters explained that Chirrut did not have a high midichlorian count, but he was capable of using the Force as much as he could to compensate for his blindness. And he did a darn good job. He was not helpless, of course, but he was no more invisible than any of the other members of Jyn's crew (or anyone, really). Even the most powerful Sith and Jedi are neither immortal nor invisible, and that is why these films, the original EU, and the Disney EU appeal to many people.







    I always like to think of this song as what the Rogue One crew would say if they were musically inclined. Who knows? Maybe some of them were.
     
  11. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Where are you going?
    I'm going to follow Jyn. Her path is clear.
    Alone? Good luck!
    I don't need luck! I have you!

    One of my favorite exchanges in the movie.
    And the exchange about the door opening and that it bothers Baze because he knows it is possible.
     
  12. Cowgirl Jedi 1701

    Cowgirl Jedi 1701 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Brothers-in-arms/BFFs
     
    SateleNovelist11 likes this.
  13. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    That's a great scene. I like Chirrut's sheepish smile as Jyn bids him farewell. Baze's "little sister" line is sweet. #poignant
     
  14. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    So many great lines between these characters...

    Chirrut: You almost shot me.
    Baze: You're welcome.

    Baze: There are no Jedi here anymore. Only dreamers like this fool.
    Chirrut: The Force did protect me.
    Baze: I protected you!

    Baze: Chirrut, don't go. Don't go. I'm here.
    Chirrut: Look for the Force, and you will always find me.
    Baze: I am one with the Force and the Force is with me.
     
  15. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    The whole thing with Chirrut and Baze is the Ying/Yang. Both are completely different but complementary. Balance and yadayada.
     
    Master_Lok and Jester J Binks like this.
  16. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I see their interactions, and especially the bickering, more as familial than intimates. they were there for each other, which is important. The 2nd trailer has Baze saying "They destroyed our home!" which isn't in the film so I'm guessing the Guardians of the Whills would elaborate on that. Unless Baze was talking about Jedah being destroyed. Which, y'know, is likely.

    Anyway Baze manages to get a laugh out of simply lying down on the ship ramp so you know he's a fun character that way.
     
    Ricardo Funes likes this.
  17. themoth

    themoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    I didn't see their relationship as homosexual at all. They were warriors who had fought together and shared that bond.
     
  18. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Again these kinds of exchanges to me really did remind me very strongly of the OT, that kind of effortless wit that we saw between the characters that I don't think SW has been able to recreate since.
     
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  19. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Are Avnar and @Endor-boy an old married couple? They sure carry on as if.

    I can't think of a single thing that pointed toward a sexual relationship for Baze and Chirrut. Everything lined up with two people that have been through quite a bit together in life. The soldier camaraderie relationship. Do I have to start leaving the door open for Anakin and Obi-Wan just because it wasn't confirmed in the negative? Anakin and Palpatine?
     
    Darth Sith Saber likes this.
  20. Avnar

    Avnar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    I assume you tagged me and Endor_boy in this post because you want us to react to your insult...? Sorry dude - I can't be bothered... That was a month and a half ago :rolleyes:

    We were having a civil discussion. Nothing more - Nothing less.
     
    Endor_boy likes this.
  21. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Yeah, let's have a normal discussion about the topic and avoid the odd comments about other posters.
     
  22. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    "The strongest stars have hearts of kyber."
    - Chirrut

    That goes for Jyn and these two wonderful characters.
     
  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I’m going with either old married couple or people who had been best friends for decades.

    ...and those two descriptions of a pair often go together/are one and the same.
     
  24. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    They aren’t lovers imo. They are comrades, brothers, and have a kind of mutually reliant relationship. Also, they kind of remind me of Han and Chewie, the way the bigger and stronger of the pair hangs around slightly off to the side / back as a kind of strong, silent vigilant bodyguard. It’s quite a familiar trope I would argue, and reflects the idea of brothers who bicker constantly, but woe betide anybody who tries to mess with one of them, the other would jump in without thinking to protect them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  25. Jedimaster_Darklight

    Jedimaster_Darklight Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Chirrut is one of my favorite characters from Rogue One (and Star Wars in general), and the bond he shares with Baze is part of the reason why i like him so much!
    As I see it, they respect and understand each other on a very deep, intimate level. The way they talk to each other suggests they have been through a lot together, and that has evolved their bond from simple friendship to a sense of brotherhood and familiy.

    By the Force! I didn't even know Skillet had released an album since RISE! :eek:
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
    Master_Lok likes this.