Religion

It wasn't Eve's fault. That was Adams excuse. The Bible said it was Adams fault.

 

Basically, yeah, justice isn't kind. And I don't like it, but it makes more sense to me. And god (as Jews see it) does come off as one of the more tribal gods - selfish and doesn't follow his own rules. As to the Egyptians - "Though shalt not kill," not "I shall not kill." Like I said, I don't really like it, and I don't really know what I believe (I treat my religion as more of a social and cultural thing than a religious one) but none of the other "mainstream" religions make sense either.

And Fel-Freak: obviously people can believe in god and not satan as evidenced by my entire religion. If god is all-powerful, why can't he do away with the devil?

I don't like the Eve thing either. Why does she get all the blame? Also, Lilith is cool Zaz recommends a book called The White Goddess, but I forgot the author.

 

You have no idea how many times I've had to listen to people ramble on that it's the fault of women that there's sin on Earth. Which is complete nonsense in my oppinion but hey...

Which Lilith do you mean?
Supposedly she's Adam's first wife but she's also a Sumerian Goddess.

Looks like Lilith was the very first emancipated woman who got chucked out of Paradise for speaking her mind. Tsk.

The White Goddess by Robert Graves, I believe. The book sounds highly interesting.

 

Yes, Graves, that's it. I meant Adam's first wife She rocks.

 

I think they are both to blame.

 

I thought Lilith was Frasier's wife.

 

She was. And she was cool, too.
An evil with that Lilith. When she wanted to be.

 

I hate it when people blame women in general too. If Adam had been the first to sin the end result would be the same. Whether it was a man or woman who did it doesn't matter. Satan just happened to target Eve first.

 

I actually never finished that, though. The idea was awesome but the execution was only meh. Maybe I'll have to reread it.

 

This seems like an interesting conversation. I'm a JW. Yes, I do do the door to door thing, and I thoroughly enjoy it. (Well, there have been instances, but overall. )

Adam was technically to blame for what happened, because he had the power, given to him by God, to correct Eve's action, and therefore save her. He didn't, so they both got put out of the garden. That's how it has been explained by some of our publications.

 

That's a good analogy, but, unlike God, I can see George Lucas, and I can watch as he sits there and explains why he allowed The Ewoks and the Magic Sunberries ever to come into being, and how that positively affected Star Wars even if nobody agrees with it now.

So He killed their children? I thought all people were the children of God.

And, MM, I don't mean to be pushy or anything. I'm just trying to understand. You know how I think.

I see where that's coming from, but then what seperates justice from revenge?

 

Justice is fair treatment or due reward for an action.
Revenge is action taken in return for an offence without considering if it is fair treatment. It tends to be for ones own forfilment or satisfaction rather than having the best intrests of all parties involoved.

Hope that helps.

 

I completely respect your point of view QGR! I do know how you think. And you know how I think. As for the first part. We can't see God, but Christians have faith that he does exist. All things work for the good of those who love Him. We have to trust that He does what He does for a reason and know that He is acting even when we can't see Him. We can't see the wind, but we know it exists. We can't see the human mind, but we think and know it exists.

I will be the first to admit that what happened to the Egyptians seems odd. But God promises good to those who love Him (Romans 8:28). The Israelites loved Him and the Egyptians didn't. The Israelites were God's chosen people and He really wanted to help them. Thankfully, God has sent His Son to earth so all who believe in Him may become children of God and be saved!

I'm really liking this thread. No one has been rude or overbearing. This thread was a great idea!

EDIT: Longest post I've ever made.

 

It's a good working definition, but I think there's a fine line between fair and unfair.

And I know that you know that I know how you think. I think.

But we can prove that the wind exists, and we can prove that the human mind exists. We cannot prove that God exists.

But why does God choose one person over another?

It was, actually!! I'm pleasantly suprised that it's working out so well. Thanks everybody!

You're a man of few words, MM.

 

But can we actually prove the existance of the mind. We can prove the brain but seeing it, of course. The mind though, our consciousness, can we actually see it? No, but we know it exists. I know God exists through faith. I can't see Him, but I know He exists.

Hard to say why God chose the Israelites as His chosen people. But there are many examples of His kindness to other nations of the old times as well. I have a few if you want to hear them. But the main point is, that now, all people can be God's chldren because of Jesus.

Yep, I like this thread!

BTW, this is the longest post I've made now.

 

Interesting discussion re justice vs revenge, and I've spent a while thinking of my own defintion of the difference, and this is what I've come up with

Justice is fair retribution in the eyes of society
Revenge is fair retribution in the eyes of an individual

 

Perfect definition, imo. Seriously.
*grabs notebook*

I've never been able to understand why Christians -- or believers in general -- are able to believe so faithfully. Others would even call it blindly.

How can you believe in something without there being living proof?
A book that's thousand years old? In my mind that doesn't really count because it was written by man and man tends to exaggerate -- it's human nature to exaggerate.

And I'm prone to believe that the bible is not only filled with truth.

So -- turning the discussion towards the bible.

I'd really like to read your oppinions.

 

From my experience, I know no Christians who are Christians based purely on the bible. There is always another experience they....well, experience! which would be their connection with God. A Christian will tell you they felt a calling, or a personal contact. It's not just what's in the book, it's something that affects them personally on a very deep level. You can't get that just from reading the bible. Different people pick up on different things in there, something that speaks to them. They then explore that on a very individual and personal level and then come to their own conclusions and beliefs.

After all, there are many denominations of Christian, all of whom use the same book as their backbone. What's important is the individual's beliefs and relationship with God.

 

Our church is a Church of Christ, based solely off of the Bible and the church of the 1st century Christians. To me, the Bible is the ultimate true manual.

 

I believe that the bible was written by God through man.

You mentioned creationism. I believe that God created everything. So I do believe in creationism. You said that it is a belief. Then how would you say that we were made?

 

The Tanakh (Old Testament) was written by men, I have no question (especially since our tradition says it does). And . . . I actually struggle with religion, because many parts of my own annoy me or make no sense, whereas an atheist point of view does. Some things are really hard to accept. But I think that the best part of religion is the culture. You know when you have really good friends and you guys share the same in-jokes and one word will make you crack up because of the history and meaning it has? It's like that, but with people I don't even know. We shared similar experiences, know the same things. And it's nice to go to the student organization and be welcomed just because we share those things. I like the sense of belonging to that.

I had a point when I started typing I don't really believe everything the Tanakh says; scientific proof offers more to me. I'm pretty gullible so I can't say I don't take things of faith but faith is one of the things I don't take, if that makes any sense.

 

Evolution

Big Bang

This is where it starts to get critical with me. I can't accept that God created us. It's the nosy scientist inside of me -- I have more proof for above mentioned theories.

I have a friend who believes everything in the bible. Word for word.
Never understood that. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

Both those theory's have flaws. And both are made up of assumptions that cannot be proven. I find it hard to believe that a big star exploded and created earth. And anyone who claims that the big bang is true then I have two questions. One, How do you know? Were you there? And Two, Where did the star that blew up come from?

And as for Evolution, don't even get me started. My opinion on Evolution is this. It's full of assumptions that no one has logically tried to prove. They say "this happened, and I say it happened so it happened." You can't tell me that something so complex as the Human body was created by random chance.

We don't know that these things really happened. So you have to take this on faith.