Discussion in 'FanForce Community' started by halibut, Mar 22, 2009.
Aw, you should've done it! It is a viable religion, after all. What did you end up doing?
It ended up with something about the lamaism of Tibet instead, it had a SW-reference though since I had found an article on TF.N mentioning that one of the lesser lamas enjoyed watching SW or something.
There's a young guy who lives in a neighboring city and he actively pursues Jedi-ism. I thought he was joking at first.
Actullay in England Jedi is now a recognized religion.
To be honest I think you jedi-ism is a bit wacky but also harmless. If it's mostly about just meditating on the good vs. evil and trying to get a connection to a higher force in the universe, then it's not much different than many other, especially Asian/Eastern, religions.
It shows how easily the human can be manipulated. If you believe hard enough or make others believe hard enough, you'll create a new religion, or in some cases even a cult. No wonder people have been making one heck of a great living off of others beliefs.
I'm an agnostic and I will not enslave myself to any religion but I still have hope that our lives aren't just meaningless. There has to be a reason behind all this. I don't know that there is a God, but I hope there is a benevolent force in the universe that judges not on strict religious guidelines but on your actions as a human being. The people that piss me off are religious fundamentalists and militant atheists. Jihadists, the nutjob that murdered Dr. Tiller, and people who want to take "Christ" out of "Christmas" are all idiots in my book. Please, athiests, stop trying to ruin Christmas and lighten up, you're only hurting your cause and giving ammo to the Bill O'Reilly's of the world.
Ah, it's only wacky because it's so...different. Personally, I just think it's fandom taken to an absolute, unnecessary extreme. But, like you said, it's harmless.
And, yes, Ceillean, people can easily be manipulated. Whole nations have been swayed by a few choice words. That's human nature, I suppose. We like to hear what we like to hear.
You can hope for a meaningful existance without religion. I believe that we exist in order to preserve existance, and I am as atheistic as they come.
I don't think the atheists are trying to ruin Christmas. I think they're trying to show that you don't have to be religious to embrace the spirit of giving.
Of course you can, but the world view of an atheist is pretty pessimistic and I don't want that. My beef is with organized religion not spirituality. I don't want to die just to go into an eternal black void, as if I never existed, as if I never mattered. I want something beyond the pain and suffering of this world...
And I agree with that sentiment but sometimes they take it to far. It's Christmas, it always has and always will be associated with Christianity. There's nothing wrong with the spirit of Christmas, they should stop being scrooges. They should also stop trying to convert people into atheism, that's just hypocritical.
I think that's an unfair generalization. I'm an atheist, but I do believe that good will ultimately triumph over evil, even if it never seems to work out at the smaller level. But maybe that's because I watch too much Star Wars.
But if you go into an eternal black void, you're still continuing the circle of life that is the whole reason we're physically here to begin with. And this world isn't all pain and suffering. I'm sure you can name more good things that have happened to you in the past 24 hours than bad.
But it's ok to convert people to a religion?
hmm... the thing that confuses me about christianity (a compulsory lesson in school) is that christians say god is good and kind... but then I read the bible and most stories end with god killing people for no real reason
Like if a King sinned, the whole kingdom would be wiped out. Surely all the people are not bad ?
It's been interesting to me since I read the bible. Does someone christian have an idea of god's reason ?
If any of the stories are from the Old Testament, I can give you the Jewish interpretation (since the OT = the Jewish religious text, more or less): God usn't good. He's Just, which is different altogether. And not Just like we think of it in modern times.
I agree, for the most part. This is my perspective. God is pure good, which means that he cannot tolerate any evil. That is why, in the Old Testament, unless the people made sacrifices, His wrath would be upon them. He is just, a righteous judge. Luckily, God sent His Son to die in our place, and if we believe and are baptized, then we don't need to worry about God's judgement (spelling?). Basically, we would all be doomed if God didn't send His Son to die in our place. And since He did, that proves His love for us.
I don't know whether any Christian has commented on this yet or not (I haven't read through the entire thread yet). I saw this post, and felt that I just had to respond.
Discussing religion is actually my favorite topic.
I happen to be Christian....but as I've learned by talking to different people, the term "Christian" means different things to different people. I can only speak from my perspective...but here is my response to the above post. Please note, I am not trying to attack your position:
I believe that the God of the Old Testament is NOT a different God from that of the New Testament. He is one and the same God. This has been the affirmation of historic Christianity. I believe that God is both just and loving, which is what the whole gospel stands on. According to Christian faith, Jesus had to die in our place so that God's justice could be met. I believe that Jesus took the punishment that we all deserved upon Himself and died in our place. Therefore, the Christian God is still just.
So...in Judaism God is not thought of as being loving or kind? Interesting. He is only thought of in terms of His justice?
And Satan, heaven, and hell don't exist in Judaism either? Really...hmm....so what do you believe happens to people when they die?
I'm honestly curious.
Because John 1 says that Jesus came in truth AND grace. I heard a sermon once in which the pastor said if He just came in truth, than He would have just come in judgment. If He just came in truth, then He would be all grace...and then He we not be just. He came in both truth and grace.
According to the Bible, when Jesus comes again, He will judge the entire world...and if you look at Revelation, you will see that God still does judge. I believe that God's love can be found in both Testaments, and also His justice can be found in both. I believe that there will come a point in which God will have had enough of all this bad stuff happening, and He will try to get the attention of whomever He can. Sometimes the only time a person will look to Him is through a bad situation. I think He sometimes allows a person to go through a bad experience so that they will remember Him and turn to Him. I don't think He wants people living their lives for themselves, without Him.
That's my perspective. I'm not God, so I really don't know about these tough questions. I'm just guessing from what I know of Scripture.
I believe that worship is a response to God; the proper response. Because of who He is, and the fact that He created everything, including us....and He is good and just and holy....worship is what our response to Him should be.
I do believe that God does help people. I think it is us humans who often do not recognize His work in our lives.
And, for the Christian, the greatest example of God helping those He created in His image is Jesus. The gospel is all about God reaching down to humans and giving them a gift that we did not deserve. Even though none of us deserved it, Jesus became human and suffered and died for us. He purchased us with His blood...and our sin is covered by His blood...thereby, our sin can be forgiven and we can have relationship with God. This kind of love is the highest that I know of. It is in response of this and everything else that God has done for humanity that I worship Him.
It's not all her fault. Adam ate it too. They both sinned, and they were both held equally responsible for it.
This goes for anyone -- if anyone wants to know what I believe, please do not hesitate to ask.
There are so many different theologies out there that carry the Christian label -- sometimes people who identify as Christian use the same words or terminology to talk about completely different things. Sometimes the definition of a word like "grace" is very different from when someone else uses the same term.
I think I phrased that incorrectly. If you study the history and religions of the times, you can draw a few clear path from God the way Jews interpret Him to God the way Christians interpret him to the way Muslims interpret Him. It's probably better to say that the interpretations are diffent enough that the god who has evolved through these religions evolved far enough that he might as well be three different gods.
There are sects of Judiasm just like there are sects of any other religion. And some prayers refer to god as good or kind, but really, take a look at a Tanak (the Old Testament - but not the translation from a Bible, becauses there are differences. The "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth etc., Justice is mine, sayth the Lord" bit? Well, that was my sister's Torah portion for her bat mitzvah. It ends with the tooth business). That god is not kind. Demanding that his first follower sacrifice his beloved child? Or any number of things. That's not kindness, that's a test.
And there are certainly different interpretations of that within Judiasm, and that's certainly not the way it's presented to children, but by the time you get to confirmation (10th grade), that is how it's being presented (or at least it was to us, and I'm Reform, which is the most modern and least strict of the sects).
And no, we don't believe in heaven or hell, but nor does the spirit just disappear. It's really hard for me to explain and it's been a few years since I've really thought about it. But let me put it this way: in Judiasm there is no heaven like you think of heaven, and there is no hell (because there is no satan, because god is not completely good and there's not need for the balance of the pure evil t
Interesting. If God is truly not thought of as being good and loving or kind in Judaism, then I would have to agree with you -- the God of today's Judaism is a different God than the God of Christianity.
I find this discussion especially interesting because the sermon my pastor gave last week was solely about the kind of love that God has towards humanity. Believing that God loves humanity is central to the Christian faith.
In your sect of Judaism do you believe in having a personal relationship with God?
As a Christian, I interpret the "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" passage differently. One of my pastors from back home explained it this way: God put a limit on how someone could respond to a wrongdoing....a limit to the amount of revenge someone could take. She said that this stopped people from going beyond the crime. Instead of someone killing someone because they kicked you, the maximum punishment was to match what the crime actually was. If there were no limit, then we have a tendency to go to the extreme.
As for the other story you referred to....again Christians have a different interpretation. We see it as God being after Abraham's heart. He was willing to sacrifice him, because God asked him to, but God did not make him. He provided a way out. If he had actually allowed him to go through with sacrificing his son, then I would agree with you that that would not be loving.
Hmmm...we both have the Old Testament, and we both use it, but we simply have different interpretations. I think you are right. This causes us to have different interpretations of God as well.
As for Satan -- according to my understanding, he doesn't exist in order to balance out God's goodness. He is not evil because we need someone to be evil in order to oppose the good God. There is no need to balance out God. Satan is evil because he's evil. He rebelled against God and simply has his own agenda. For God to exist, Satan does not have to. I look at it as just the way it is.
Satan balancing god isn't necessarily the way anyone else sees it, but from a non-religious stance, things in nature balance out. Light and dark, good and evil. To me it makes sense that if you have good, you have evil to balance it. Actually, have you ever read Piers Anthony's books? He wrote a seven-book series about incarnations of death, fate, war, god, satan, time, and nature (they're fiction - fantasy). I never made it all the way through the series, but it presents some interesting questions.
As for the personal relationship with god, that's more of an individual thing.
Personally I have a big problem believing in Satan. I like how Crowley says it in the book Good Omens (where Satan definitely exists) that he might be a demon, but no demon in hell could come up with so much evil and wicked things as humans do to each other every day.
I think I like the Jewish way of seeing God as just, but at the same time I can't help but believe that God is ultimately good through and through.
I need to try that one again.
And I have to agree. It seems like it's being (and has been for thousands of years) used as an excuse.