Remembering Tigers and Padawans...

Just a quick note: several responses to this thread have turned into anti-administrator sentiments to those admins who don't want to try to create some sort of program like this--or, for that matter, towards those of us that do. I can't exactly blame you for feeling that way, but I urge you to reconsider. After all, PreacherBoy's concern about time is very valid: there are only 24 hours in a day, and we spend plenty of time around JCN as it is. This, combined with a variety of other reasons, make the whole "group" idea a more practical idea for some administrators than for others.

And, for the time being, I don't think that people should really choose what group they are in. That could lead to the formation of what amounts to political parties, and then one of PreacherBoy's other concerns becomes frighteningly valid.

 

Just a quick note: several responses to this thread have turned into anti-administrator sentiments to those admins who don't want to try to create some sort of program like this--or, for that matter, towards those of us that do. I can't exactly blame you for feeling that way, but I urge you to reconsider. After all, PreacherBoy's concern about time is very valid: there are only 24 hours in a day, and we spend plenty of time around JCN as it is. This, combined with a variety of other reasons, make the whole "group" idea a more practical idea for some administrators than for others.

And, for the time being, I don't think that people should really choose what group they are in. That could lead to the formation of what amounts to political parties, and then one of PreacherBoy's other concerns becomes frighteningly valid.

 

Sorry, Paradox... I know your intentions are benign, but I think with a lot of people nowadays, it's hard for any discussion about the administrators to NOT turn into an anti-administrator discussion. I think a large portion of the JC populace--including many among the "senior members"--is feeling a lot of subtle resentment towards the administrators, two or three of them in particular. Especially when I read the Communications forum, I feel that there are a lot of issues, big and small, that are just not being resolved, and people are unsettled by it.
For example (and sorry to bring this thing up again), when the admins put an end to the threads discussing the banning of religion threads, and threatened us with harsh actions if we continued them, that felt very dirty to me, as an observer and a participant. There was no closure in that situation. For me, it ended when an administrator simply stopped replying to my messages when I was trying to have an icq conversation with him about it. That was something I felt strongly about, and first they cut me off from speaking my mind in the forums, and then wouldn't even listen to me in icq. And I was never even being rude or inflammatory about it. I was trying my best to be polite and rational.

Oh well. Sorry to turn your thread into this, Paradox, honestly. You and about four of the other administrators have always been very nice and understanding. But unfortunately (and I could be wrong), I sense a definite heiarchy among the administrators. A certain two or three can do whatever they want, while the others would most likely be afraid to take any major action without consulting the more influential ones, who, of course, have the final say. I could be wrong about that, but that's what I sense.
And by the way, it's not that I'm against those two or three administrators. It's more that I feel like THEY are against ME.

 

Sorry, Paradox... I know your intentions are benign, but I think with a lot of people nowadays, it's hard for any discussion about the administrators to NOT turn into an anti-administrator discussion. I think a large portion of the JC populace--including many among the "senior members"--is feeling a lot of subtle resentment towards the administrators, two or three of them in particular. Especially when I read the Communications forum, I feel that there are a lot of issues, big and small, that are just not being resolved, and people are unsettled by it.
For example (and sorry to bring this thing up again), when the admins put an end to the threads discussing the banning of religion threads, and threatened us with harsh actions if we continued them, that felt very dirty to me, as an observer and a participant. There was no closure in that situation. For me, it ended when an administrator simply stopped replying to my messages when I was trying to have an icq conversation with him about it. That was something I felt strongly about, and first they cut me off from speaking my mind in the forums, and then wouldn't even listen to me in icq. And I was never even being rude or inflammatory about it. I was trying my best to be polite and rational.

Oh well. Sorry to turn your thread into this, Paradox, honestly. You and about four of the other administrators have always been very nice and understanding. But unfortunately (and I could be wrong), I sense a definite heiarchy among the administrators. A certain two or three can do whatever they want, while the others would most likely be afraid to take any major action without consulting the more influential ones, who, of course, have the final say. I could be wrong about that, but that's what I sense.
And by the way, it's not that I'm against those two or three administrators. It's more that I feel like THEY are against ME.

 

...which was why I started a new thread with my post. Everyone keeps apologizing about being off topic.

 

...which was why I started a new thread with my post. Everyone keeps apologizing about being off topic.

 

Paradox: I apologize for this thread going off your original topic. However, this thread is titled THE ROLE OF THE ADMINS, and I believe that it is the administrators' attitudes on this role that is causing the problems we are now experiencing. We love this forum just as much as you guys do, and it pains us to see it in such a state. I hope you can understand that we feel compelled to talk about it.

Preacherboy: You complain about being "dehumanized". You seem to lament the lack of respect people have for you. But what you seem to fail to realize is that respect cannot be demanded. It cannot be cajoled. It is not derived from guilt or pity. Respect, my friend, is earned. As is the loss thereof.

I have been a regular at the JC for a long time. I have seen admins get flamed plenty of times. But in the past, it was different. The flamer was usually a newbie, someone who didn't like the fact that his thread was closed. And usually the regular members would quickly jump to the admins defense.

But look at what has been happening in the last several weeks. The people complaining are not newbies. They are respected, veteran members. They are people who have never caused trouble, and have been nothing but a positive influence on the forums. And as the debate goes on, the admins seem to have less and less supporters. Does this not tell you that something big is going on here? This isn't something that can just be ignored, I'm afraid. Please, let's continue to talk about it.

And as a final note:
Could the administrators make the JC a place where their word is final? Where they control the topics of discussion? Where those who complained are instantly banned and their threads deleted? Yes. Would it hurt TF.N? Probably not. What you have to ask yourselves is this: Is that the kind of forum you want to run? Is that the reason you became an administrator? I sincerely hope that your answer is no.

 

Paradox: I apologize for this thread going off your original topic. However, this thread is titled THE ROLE OF THE ADMINS, and I believe that it is the administrators' attitudes on this role that is causing the problems we are now experiencing. We love this forum just as much as you guys do, and it pains us to see it in such a state. I hope you can understand that we feel compelled to talk about it.

Preacherboy: You complain about being "dehumanized". You seem to lament the lack of respect people have for you. But what you seem to fail to realize is that respect cannot be demanded. It cannot be cajoled. It is not derived from guilt or pity. Respect, my friend, is earned. As is the loss thereof.

I have been a regular at the JC for a long time. I have seen admins get flamed plenty of times. But in the past, it was different. The flamer was usually a newbie, someone who didn't like the fact that his thread was closed. And usually the regular members would quickly jump to the admins defense.

But look at what has been happening in the last several weeks. The people complaining are not newbies. They are respected, veteran members. They are people who have never caused trouble, and have been nothing but a positive influence on the forums. And as the debate goes on, the admins seem to have less and less supporters. Does this not tell you that something big is going on here? This isn't something that can just be ignored, I'm afraid. Please, let's continue to talk about it.

And as a final note:
Could the administrators make the JC a place where their word is final? Where they control the topics of discussion? Where those who complained are instantly banned and their threads deleted? Yes. Would it hurt TF.N? Probably not. What you have to ask yourselves is this: Is that the kind of forum you want to run? Is that the reason you became an administrator? I sincerely hope that your answer is no.

 

I think the idea of Paradox's is a very sound one. I think if the admins each had their own group, they wouldn't be expected to change every members' diaper so to speak, but perhaps a once a week icq chat and then a generic email be sent to those without icq would allow members to discuss things that are bothering them. I know icq chats can be hell, but if only the members that had issues could meet with their icq group and the admin, you guys could then bring the problems to each other's attention. Now, this could take, say, an hour, and I know one hour a week is not to hellacious for you to fit into your precious schedule, I mean, we all spend a lot more than that here in one day.

GMJ

 

I think the idea of Paradox's is a very sound one. I think if the admins each had their own group, they wouldn't be expected to change every members' diaper so to speak, but perhaps a once a week icq chat and then a generic email be sent to those without icq would allow members to discuss things that are bothering them. I know icq chats can be hell, but if only the members that had issues could meet with their icq group and the admin, you guys could then bring the problems to each other's attention. Now, this could take, say, an hour, and I know one hour a week is not to hellacious for you to fit into your precious schedule, I mean, we all spend a lot more than that here in one day.

GMJ

 

I have to echo on that... the harshness with which some admins "lay down the law " here gets a little bit on the rough side...a member lifting a point, a question or even a suggestion about the forums often sees his request ridiculed, snapped with a cute answer that is really not thatcute when you are on the receiving end...this is not generalized, i'm not talking about all admins...and I hope this isn't seen as a put down on admins... I come in as a relatively new member to this forum who's here every day, reads a lot of the posts and "gets the feel of the place", but mainly as a member who cares about the forums as a mean for star wars fans to get together, exchange ideas, point of views etc...
thanks for reading

 

I have to echo on that... the harshness with which some admins "lay down the law " here gets a little bit on the rough side...a member lifting a point, a question or even a suggestion about the forums often sees his request ridiculed, snapped with a cute answer that is really not thatcute when you are on the receiving end...this is not generalized, i'm not talking about all admins...and I hope this isn't seen as a put down on admins... I come in as a relatively new member to this forum who's here every day, reads a lot of the posts and "gets the feel of the place", but mainly as a member who cares about the forums as a mean for star wars fans to get together, exchange ideas, point of views etc...
thanks for reading

 

Sorry just wanted to add this to the long first post I made. I understand perfectly about the pressure of being an admin can mean (damned if you act, damned if you don't), and my intervention wasn't a put down... you guys work hard to give us great forums and that is appreciated, but in the end, can't this be done without that big line traced in the forum ground splitting the Gods and the mere mortals? I'd like to read more about the opinions of admins about the subjects in the thread not just about the policing of those threads... I read some very interesting posts by jasman and paradox for example, in the end what I mean is: let's have fun together, it' s way cooler

 

Sorry just wanted to add this to the long first post I made. I understand perfectly about the pressure of being an admin can mean (damned if you act, damned if you don't), and my intervention wasn't a put down... you guys work hard to give us great forums and that is appreciated, but in the end, can't this be done without that big line traced in the forum ground splitting the Gods and the mere mortals? I'd like to read more about the opinions of admins about the subjects in the thread not just about the policing of those threads... I read some very interesting posts by jasman and paradox for example, in the end what I mean is: let's have fun together, it' s way cooler

 

Well, my feelings concerning some of these matters are relatively clear.
But I hope that the brevity of this post allows it to be read by those who should heed these words:

"Rebuke not a scorner lest he hate thee. Rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee."
-Proverbs 9:8

Work on being the wise man.

[This message has been edited by Obi GYN (edited 11-05-1999).]

 

Well, my feelings concerning some of these matters are relatively clear.
But I hope that the brevity of this post allows it to be read by those who should heed these words:

"Rebuke not a scorner lest he hate thee. Rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee."
-Proverbs 9:8

Work on being the wise man.

[This message has been edited by Obi GYN (edited 11-05-1999).]

 

Anyway, back to the topic:

I actually quite like Paradox's idea. It'd be kind of like those "Peer Support" groups they have in school where problems are discussed with someone of more experience or such. However, i have no idea how the groups would be allocated or how it would be run. I think GMJ's last comment is something i'd like to happen.

 

Anyway, back to the topic:

I actually quite like Paradox's idea. It'd be kind of like those "Peer Support" groups they have in school where problems are discussed with someone of more experience or such. However, i have no idea how the groups would be allocated or how it would be run. I think GMJ's last comment is something i'd like to happen.

 

Well Andrusys, as I interpreted Jaro's post, this is what I can do:

<LI> Mingle with the Members and be hated for my personality.
<LI> Isolate myself and have no fun, just be a BOT all day.

 

Well Andrusys, as I interpreted Jaro's post, this is what I can do:

<LI> Mingle with the Members and be hated for my personality.
<LI> Isolate myself and have no fun, just be a BOT all day.

 

you have a third option PB - you could just try to be nice...

 

you have a third option PB - you could just try to be nice...

 

"You get what you give."

It's as simple as that.

 

"You get what you give."

It's as simple as that.

 

Preacher Boy

Quite frankly, I'd rather be hated for the person that I am rather than liked for the person I'm not.