ST Ren is apparently not a 'Sith'

So I guess this means 'The Sith' are dead for good according to JJ. Seems kind of pointless considering storm troopers are still storm troopers. Was this decision made with respect to the how Lucas ended the first Saga with the completion of the "chosen one" prophecy?, or is this more "We are not the prequels" plot dressing to pander to the vocal hater crowd.

All I know is, this could either be a really powerful move... or a cheap way making I-III irrelevant which some are afraid will happen. Star Wars sociall media doesn't give me that impression though.

What are your thoughts with regards to this spoiler and how it reflects the story going forward.

 

I thought both the Jedi and the Sith were finally dead.

 

Hey, we're talking about this in the Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren threads, come join the fun.

http://boards.theforce.net/index.php?threads/Adam-Driver-(Kylo-Ren)-in-Episode-VII.50020028/

http://boards.theforce.net/index.php?threads/The-Knights-of-Ren.50032947/

 

but the Empire is now the First Order. Unlike Stormtroopers, the Empire and the Sith are organizations, not MMO classes.

My thoughths on this spoiler: Factions come and go. Not surprised at all.

 

Kylo just had to be a special little snowflake covered cinammon bun and be a Knight of Ren instead. Don't worry Kylo, you'll get a Darth name sooner or later

 

I just had a long discussion about it in the Lit board. I think it's a poor creative choice.

Kylo Ren, based on what we know so far, seems to be a Sith in the mold of Vader in all but name.

If they decided to not make him a Sith just because of Lucas's 2005 interpretation of the prophecy, that would be a big mistake. That explanation was never satisfactory to begin with, and never confirmed in the movies either, just Obi-wan talks about it and Yoda tells him that he could be misreading it.

So apparently if you're a Sith in all but name (based on the info we have so far, with the First Order wanting order and Kylo Ren being part of that, and his obsession with Vader and the past), even looking like the PT/OT Sith with a dark suit and red lightsaber and using the dark side and burning down villages, as long as you don't take the name Darth and don't call yourself a Sith then the Force is still in balance. Or something.

The only way the prophecy makes sense, if we still take it that Vader fulfilled it at the end of ROTJ, would be if it's not about destroying the Sith as an organization. If it's about either ending Palpatine's power in particular, or redeeming Vader in particular. Nothing in the movies or the new canon suggests Palpatine was remarkably evil or doing something remarkably horrible that it would throw the life force of the entire universe out of balance. He was a super-gifted politician and strategist, adaptive too, and succeeded in remaking the political landscape of a galaxy. But that's it. Could have been (and apparently was) done in the past according to PT quotes, and is apparently done in the future now too with the First Order in the ST. So I think what brought balance to the Force was simply the Chosen One ultimately dying in the light, his decision to overthrow Palpatine for selfless reasons redeemed him. It was his redemption, destroying the Sith inside himself, that restored balance. That this means the Force itself will ultimately choose the light, with the ripples from Anakin's sacrifice eventually leading to good's victory for all time. The ultimate outcome is never in doubt after his redemption, even if there are temporary setbacks. The ripple effects of his redemption and sacrifice could, in time, even lead to a new awakening in the Force. That's my theory anyways.

Saying the ST will respect the Chosen One prophecy by calling its "Sith in all but name" something else just seems like it would be a sloppy, poor creative decision to me. Unless Kylo really shows himself to be completely different from Vader and Palpatine. But all signs are pointing in the opposite. Even worse is if they're not calling him a Sith only because of the prophecy. Like fulfilling the prophecy will keep a Sith in all but name from calling himself a Sith. That's like saying if Palpatine stopped calling himself a Sith, balance would be brought to the Force.

As for the chain being broken, the first Sith had to start somewhere. It's a name that has survived for thousands of years. Nothing but a forced plot would prevent a Vader fanboy from taking the title.
Also, you can be a Sith without being a darth, if you're just tired of the Darth prefix.

That's my opinion, anyways. Nobody take it personally.

 

Well the Sith order kind of did die out with Vader and the emperor, without the traditions being passed down and the rule of two perhaps being broken now. Seeing as how most of he stuff not seen in films is deemed non canon it makes sense. Force users who turn to the dark side now will simply be dark side force users, or reform their own order so they can be organized.

 

Where does JJ say "Sith are dead for good?"

 

I'm glad there are no Sith. If we had Darth whoever turn up out of the blue, that would be so weak.

 

Nowhere. He just said Ren isn't one. I would look at Snoke as the BTS baddie.

 

we've been saying this for months now.

it's good the sith are gone for the st and lol @ people being mad about it.

 

I guess the biggest thing is then why are snoke,kylo,knights of Ren then so obsessed with Vader and Sids Empire....and apparently restoring That Image of power.....Usually the bad guys have major egos and want everybody to know that it's their will and power that everybody should be fearing and respecting....

It doesn't seem to make sense for them to want to share that tyrannical glory with SIDS and Vaders Ghosts

 

The Sith are simply rebranding. It's all marketing. The kindler, gentler Sith. Perception is reality, folks. Like COMCAST is calling itself XFINITY: The same conglomerate with the same terrible costumer service and the same desire to control the majority of information via the internet (neutrality), with an all new cool name.

 

Locking.