Repentance and the Dark Side (possible DJ spoilers)

Up!!!

 

After reading DJ I am firmly in the belief that Kyp never did return from the Dark Side. He is still there. Sure maybe not completely but I do not think he is all the way back. (did that make sense?) . Maybe seeing Jaina on that same path will be enough to turn him from it.

 

I am upping this thread because I'd like to see what people think about characters who are still alive (as of DJ). Namely Kyp, Luke, Zekk, Jaina, etc. Do you think they have fully repented of their trips to the Dark Side or not?

Kimball Kinnison

 

This is a thread I somewhat am reluctant to get into. However...

lordmaul13- I totally agree w/ you. I immediately thought of Luke 23:39-43 as Jesus and the 2 robbers hung on the cross...

39) One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"
40) But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41) We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."
42) Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
43)Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

I am not to here to debate religion(s). I do think that you cannot place a timetable on a person's repentance. Some people have a strong enough will to quit smoking the day they decide to. Others battle the addiction for the rest of their life trying to "repent from it". The moment Vader turned on the Emperor he walked out of the darkness and felt the "grace" of the force. The matter of Kyp isn't as simple. He willingly put his life on the line for Jaina (in Dark Journey), but when has he been one to think before he acted? I think Kyp still has some work to do.

 

I was going through some of my old posts and found this old thread of mine. I never thought that we had explored this topic as much as we could have.

Has any of this changed? Looking at some of the characters that we've seen go to the Dark Side, it seems like too many of them are not fully repenting of their trip. (To repent literally means to turn away.) For example, Jaina is still heavily influenced by her experiences with the Dark Side, she hasn't completely abandoned them.

What do y'all think?

Kimball Kinnison

 

Repentance in my mind having experienced it with my brother is something that takes place in an instant at least as far as past evils go.

Evil mind is a state of being not a "atonement process". Atonement is a notion that doesn't work because there is no such thing.

If I murder a man I cannot bring him back and even if I did, the action was still done.

A person who forsakes darkness has forsaken it but he may still not possess the fortitude to resist FUTURE temptations.

Its "falling off the wagon" so to speak.

It is a key note of the Christian religion even in more liberal sects that embracing Jesus is all that is required to free yourself from sin, whether this means worshipping him or begging him to cleanse your body of wickedness and take you up to heaven

Darth Vader forsook the power of the Dark Side, he forsook his position in the Empire, and he forsook his OWN LIFE knowingly and willingly to save the life of his son.

If one believes in sacrafice Vader gave up everything his evil deeds had gained him for another living being

I cannot imagine really what more would be needed

***

Re: The Redeemed

Luke Skywalker: I believe Luke repented fully of his deeds in Dark Empire. I believe however he was being given good advice by mara to live by, also Corran even if both were proven wrong in some ways

Basically don't teach folk like Brakiss and Kueller the Force and don't necessarily go for the direct confrontation

Mara Jade: Mara Jade is in deep deep denial and ironically Luke is allowing her this for her own peace of mind. She cannot go through the process of accepting the Emperor and Empire was evil, its too central to her self image

Thus she is unrepentant of her deeds even if some part of her repents every moment she fights with Luke

Even her killing Luuke was a denial in some ways

Kyp Duroun: Simple Tricks shows Kyp Duroun's repentence in the fact Kyp went through 3 months as a complete child. He cried, stared forward, and was in deep depression as he had to accept NOT ONLY did he kill Imperials but he murdered his own brother

People tend to forget Kyp's only family died because of his actions

Kyp is a cowboy now. He goes in lightsaber swinging but that's because he is overcompensating like some Christians I know. They are driven by the demons they faced and determined to make amends

Even as they cannot EVER accept they are truly good

Jaina: Jaina was experimenting with the Dark Side and ruthlesness but didn't go over. She also lost her best friend and first love because of it. She lost her friend's trust and believed her brother dead for months

She has not freed herself from the guilt but ironically she freed herself from the belief you needed to be evil to win and that is the best thing Kyp has ever done

Zekk: Zekk spent months as a bounty hunter trying to escape his sins memories and only repented in my mind when he came back to the Jedi

 

Going way back a bit to the Whole Luke/Vision of the future thing with mara,

My personal belief is that it was one of the few situations where the EU did someone turning back from the dark side correct. That kind of journey should have lasting reprecussions on a character, as it did ulic and anakin skywalker.

Yoda said it would forever dominate one's destiny and after the thrawn trilogy, we saw luke become more and more powerful with each book and in each book he became more and more weary and isolated from the galaxy because of that power.

One "clever" author even went so far as to turn him into a recluse, attempting to explain away obi-wan and yoda's isolation in the OT. But as the two last living jedi masters who were overseeing the offspring of the chosen one, what did you expect them to do? With the empire hunting down the jedi they couldnt exactly hang a shingle anywhere.

The EU authors had luke tap into power beyond anything previously seen. Even if you argue that its all based on Zahn's "mischaracterization of the force" in his trilogy, it was still a needed correction on Zahn's part to remind luke that being a jedi isnt about power and to rid us of the annoying "haunted jedi master" role they were slipping him into for every book.