Results so far...

Discussion in 'Literature Poll forum' started by Kadue, Oct 6, 2002.

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  1. Kadue Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2000
    star 5
    Okay, it's been about two weeks since Gandy started this experiment, with me tagging along to help and watch. At the time of posting this, we have 100 users in here to discuss the issues and vote, which while not the entire Lit forum, it's still a rather representative cross-section. So it's time to start collating the data, and look at what changes might need to be instituted to help the continuing improvement of the Literature forum.

    Polls
    We've got two polls on this issue that canvas the range of options that we have. Firstly it seems that the majority of opinion is that there isn't a need for a separate forum for Lit/EU polls, and that we can just keep them in Lit and/or the EUC. This is very doable since it requires us to do nothing in terms of altering current policy, and is easy in terms of moderating.

    The second question was whether we should allow polls at all in Lit, and the issue here is divided pretty much 50-50. So what should the solution here be from this data?

    Again, it looks like we keep with the status quo. A lot of people on both sides of this issue have raised the issue of some polls being redundant, or just spam in nature. A large portion of those that have voted in favour of polls put the caveat that if they get out of hand, we shut them down again for a period of time.

    Are there any complaints to allowing polls, but when they get too spammish or improperly used, we shut them down for a pre-determined period of 2 months before allowing them again? Of course, with this, we'd post some guidelines on the proper use of polls and how to avoid them being suspended for a time amongst the guidelines of the forum.

    Non-Star Wars books and literature
    Again, a topic that is close to being evenly divided on by the forum members. Some of the arguements for allowing some off-topic threads include the lag and lack of good discussion in between the releases; wanting to discuss things with people that you know, in an atmosphere that fosters healthy discussion on this type of thing; and because some of the discussion that takes place is looking at how things relate to, compare and contrast with the SW books. Arguements against include that we already have specific forums for this discussion (the Amphitheatre and Authors and Artists forums); worry about some of these threads drowning out the rest of the Lit threads; and that Lit is for discussion of SW only.

    So, how about this for a compromise:
    • If someone just wishes to flat out discuss a book that is not part of the EU, they are redirected to the Amphitheatre to discuss it
    • If someone wishes to talk about other works by writers of SW books, we redirect them to the A&A forum's specific thread about that author, or create a new thread if we don't already have that author listed.
    • If, though, they wish to discuss how something relates or compares to an existing EU book, we allow it, if the discussion is focussed on this. If what is the point of discussion is how the themes of say Dune mirror those we are seeing in some NJO books about the hero's journey, and how while the paths of Jacen and Jaina are similar to that of Paul Attredis in that they are taking on the roles of another religion to bring about a resolution to their respective conflicts, Jaina only does so to confuse the issue in any battle that involves her, while Jacen seems to be heading down the same path as Paul did, and embracing some of the religious aspects to bring about a resolution, while at the same time maybe losing some of those things that define him as what is seen as a true Jedi.
    Is this a fair middle ground? If you wish to discuss something in relation to the EU in terms of themes, characterisations, morality and messages of stories, and the like, then you can do so in Lit, since that is where discussion of EU takes place. If you want to discuss EU author's non-SW work, A&A is the place. If it's any book, Amphitheatre is where to go. Again, this is something we'd explicitly outline in a general guidelines thread, with links
  2. JADES_FIRE Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2001
    star 4
    Sounds good so far Kadue, thanks for the update. :D

    Any word on when the new mod will be announced :confused:


    Edit: Kadue - When you "unstick" a thread :confused: do you lose the 1st post or the 2nd post :confused:

    Because if you lose the 1st post wouldn't everything that you have written be lost :confused:
  3. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 10
    So, how about this for a compromise:
    - If someone just wishes to flat out discuss a book that is not part of the EU, they are redirected to the Amphitheatre to discuss it
    - If someone wishes to talk about other works by writers of SW books, we redirect them to the A&A forum's specific thread about that author, or create a new thread if we don't already have that author listed.
    - If, though, they wish to discuss how something relates or compares to an existing EU book, we allow it, if the discussion is focussed on this. If what is the point of discussion is how the themes of say Dune mirror those we are seeing in some NJO books about the hero's journey, and how while the paths of Jacen and Jaina are similar to that of Paul Attredis in that they are taking on the roles of another religion to bring about a resolution to their respective conflicts, Jaina only does so to confuse the issue in any battle that involves her, while Jacen seems to be heading down the same path as Paul did, and embracing some of the religious aspects to bring about a resolution, while at the same time maybe losing some of those things that define him as what is seen as a true Jedi.


    This sounds PERFECT! Thanks, Kadue...
  4. chissdude10 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 5
    Thanks for the update Kadue.
  5. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Are there any complaints to allowing polls, but when they get too spammish or improperly used, we shut them down for a pre-determined period of 2 months before allowing them again?

    Yes. The problem is, the worst of the poll-spamming occurs immediately after polls have been turned back on.

    If someone just wishes to flat out discuss a book that is not part of the EU, they are redirected to the Amphitheatre to discuss it

    The thing is, the amphitheatre just doesn't get the traffic that lit does. It might get the same volume, but how many of those people actually care about reading SFF? If I'm promoting/discussing a SFF book, there's a MUCH better target demographic, and a much better chance someone else has read it, in Lit than there is in AMP.

    Other than that, things look pretty good.
  6. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    When we unstick a thread, we copy everything from the first post into the second post with our moderator edit abilities, and then delete the first post. It?s the first post that has the sticky quality.

    Any word on when the new mod will be announced

    The invitation has been sent. We?re currently waiting on the candidates response.
  7. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    And what a doozy it will be if the response is positive. :D

    But what if it's negative? Will we be without a new mod? Will we still be free to spam to our hearts' content?
  8. wampa Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 4
    Looks good so far.
  9. sith1137 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2001
    star 4
    thanks for the update Kadue. much appreciated. looks good so far.
  10. JADES_FIRE Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2001
    star 4
    And what a doozy it will be if the response is positive. :D

    Do you know something that we don't Mas [face_mischief]


    Also, how do you guys cut and paste what someone else has posted :confused: I've tried and can't get it to work. :mad:

    When I'm posting a reply, I click on to review the topic and try to cut and paste the question onto the post I'm writing. :confused: (Is this the right way to do it? )
  11. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    We mods have the ability to see exactly what someone has posted, down to the UBB codes and smilies in their original state. We just cut and paste that into our posts if we want to copy something large scale.

    But normally, we just highlight, copy, paste, just like everyone else.
  12. J_K_DART Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2001
    star 5
    I like 'em, gang! Thumbs-up from the dynamically dizzy Dart lol!

    Seriously, tho', I agree with almost all that's been said, except I do see Mastadge's point - more of the ppl in Lit are readers than in Amph, so opening a Lit topic is wiser for Lit than for Amph (does that make sense?)

    Um, what I'm trying to say is, if you're wanting to create a topic on a book you like, Lit is probably the place I'd imagine it'd get the best reception... Now, I *do* think we need to keep an eye on them not getting too many, but I also think the ppl here love SW far more than any other literature, and I really don't think it'd be a problem...
  13. Kadue Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2000
    star 5
    Are there any complaints to allowing polls, but when they get too spammish or improperly used, we shut them down for a pre-determined period of 2 months before allowing them again?

    Yes. The problem is, the worst of the poll-spamming occurs immediately after polls have been turned back on.


    Well, then polls won't be around all that much. ;)

    Seriously, yes for the first couple of days, polls do get rather bad. But we always weather through that, and at the moment, the issue of polls is at the best point I've ever seen it. There aren't that many new ones getting started, and there aren't that many that get locked.

    If someone just wishes to flat out discuss a book that is not part of the EU, they are redirected to the Amphitheatre to discuss it

    The thing is, the amphitheatre just doesn't get the traffic that lit does. It might get the same volume, but how many of those people actually care about reading SFF? If I'm promoting/discussing a SFF book, there's a MUCH better target demographic, and a much better chance someone else has read it, in Lit than there is in AMP.


    That is true Mas, but the fact is that we have to have a line in the sand somewhere. I personally would love to just discuss books with the rest of Lit, since you guys are the ones I know best, and have already an appreciation for good/bad writing. Yet we do have a place for discussion of general literature, and that is the Amphitheatre. I know at the moment that the atmosphere isn't what it could be for great discussion of books, especially SF/F ones, but again, we have to draw lines. I have no problem in linking to a specific thread for SF/F discussion in the Amph so Lit forumers can easily head there.

    But remember, there was pretty much 50% of people that said they don't want OT threads at all in Lit, so we have to find some common ground, and make concessions on both sides. I hope that people can see that this is something workable for the moment, and maybe if we can do things right and be sensible about it all, we might even up the requirement from being related to the EU, to being SF/F sometime in the future.

    Do you know something that we don't Mas

    It seems he does, and if I find the person who is leaking, I'm going to be locking them in a forum with our train troll friend after stripping them of their mod powers. [face_devil]

    Also, how do you guys cut and paste what someone else has posted I've tried and can't get it to work.

    When I'm posting a reply, I click on to review the topic and try to cut and paste the question onto the post I'm writing. (Is this the right way to do it? )


    Yep, what you're doing is the easiest and most common way.

    Although as Gandy said, moderators can go in and grab the exact text that was typed into a post, which is what I mostly do (since it's 2 mouse-clicks, and saves time). That is what I'll do when unsticking this thread, just transfer the text from the first post to the next.


    As I've said, I welcome everyone's input on this stuff. It's your forum, and we are trying this as a way to get everyone really involved in helping to decide how things go, which includes having a say all the way through this. :)
  14. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Do you know something that we don't Mas

    It seems he does, and if I find the person who is leaking, I'm going to be locking them in a forum with our train troll friend after stripping them of their mod powers.


    Two things:

    1) Have I said anything to even imply that I know anything? :confused: Aren't I allowed to pretend I'm in the know, even if I'm not? It's good for my ego to have people thinking I know things that they don't.

    and if I find the person who is leaking, I'm going to be locking them in a forum with our train troll friend after stripping them of their mod powers

    2) "A" person leaking is not a "them," it's either a "he" or a "she." :D In this case, if there has been a leak, which I'm neither confirming nor denying, it's obviously a he, considering the gender of all our lit mods.
  15. Kadue Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2000
    star 5
    Details details. Stop taking the fun out of being evil. :p
  16. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Well then, stop taking the fun out of being a know-it-all wise-ass. 8-}
  17. Kadue Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2000
    star 5
  18. Darth McClain Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
  19. The Gatherer Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 1999
    star 6
    Thanks for the summary Kadue.
  20. JADES_FIRE Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2001
    star 4

    Well then, stop taking the fun out of being a know-it-all wise-ass.

    If it makes you feel any better Mas [face_mischief]

    I'll always think of you as a know-it-all wise-ass. ;) :p
  21. Moff_D Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2002
    star 5
    Looks like you mods are putting much thought into this. Good work! What you have looks fine to me :)
  22. Jades Fire Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 1998
    star 4
    Wow! Something I suggested is actually going to be used. [face_blush]

    I have a follow-up question about SPOILERS and the spoiler period. Does the one month spoiler policy include spoilers in thread titles? I'd hate to be accidentally spoiled because someone puts up a CHARACTER XYZ'S DEATH thread after the one month deadline.

    Is it possible to have a longer deadline for spoiler thread titles?


    PS: What is this forum going to be used for when it is opened up for all?
  23. Kadue Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2000
    star 5
    There is nothing specific on that yet, but we could have slightly different rules for titles of threads.

    As for what this board will be used for, most probably just sit here as an archive, or be turned over for other forums to use if they wish for this kind of thing.
  24. JediTrilobite Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 1999
    star 7
    About the co-promise, I have a book that I would like to announce to the general Lit forum, mainly because some people might not know about the ampitheater.
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