ST Retcons in the ST

So, the Emperor and Vader are dead, and maybe part of the Imperial fleet (honestly we only ever see the Super Star Destroyer actually crash. The other ships are neither show to be destroyed nor escape, so their fates are up in the air). Well that leaves the regional governors, the remaining military leadership, the MANY star systems still under Imperial control, and the rest of the fleet (I have a hard time believing that the WHOLE fleet was that small, or that Sheev would commit it all to one battle). So no, the Empire surviving in a smaller and weaker, but still formidable form is not that hard to buy. Nor would it really be a "retcon."

 

We do see at least one Star Destroyer go up in flames beside the Executor - maybe more than one.

 

Forgive me for being late to this party, but after reading through this thread, I think some folks might benefit from reading the following, relation to debates about what Lucas intended and what he decided when and what recons have been done.

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Histor...sr=8-1&keywords=A+secret+history+of+star+wars

 

Ah, retcons. I almost read "racoons" the first time.

 

Having in mind how huge a Star Destroyer is, that must've been one hell of a hit that it took to just disintegrate like that. Always love that moment when I rewatch ROTJ.

 

Made of Explodium, indeed. That scene, (and the Executor one) do get cited as examples.

 

I always assumed that the Star Destroyer that is seen exploding before the Executor goes down simply took too many hits, and her reactor went critical, like a warp core breach in that "other" space franchise.

I never thought for a second that one hit did that. The Alliance didn't bring a Death Star of their own to Endor.

 

There wasn't any visible damage on the ship immediately before the explosion (unlike in the Other Franchise) but that may be due to skimping on the special effects - not everything we see has to be taken completely literally.

 

Perhaps the Prophecy of the Chosen One, if not outright retconned, re-purposed to pivot the narrative (now that it's no longer the climax of the saga and is now plot point #2, which is roughly found at the end of ACT II). This would allow the third act to be introduced and concluded climactically at the end of Episode IX.

 

There were quite a few retcons in the PT. Moving from Yoda being Obi-Wan's teacher to Qui-Gon being Obi-Wan's teacher was a really big retcon (And don't give me that Bear Clan nonsense, the line "So was I, when you first taught me" in response to Yoda calling Luke reckless makes ZERO sense when you're talking about a six year old!). So it's nothing new to the saga. Another one would be Leia remembering her real mother ("I was very young." Ain't THAT the truth!).

All this doesn't even touch on the Legends EU we had for 25 years. People didn't have so much of a problem with the Sith returning in that, else Star Wars Legacy wouldn't have been such a hit (I won't bring up Lumiya and Caedus, because a LOT of folks had a problem with that, though mainly because of Jacen's characterization rather than the Sith's return).

P.S. The prophecy says the Chosen One was supposed to bring balance to the force, not really destroy the Sith. The only like i remember about that is from Obi-Wan yelling at Anakin on Mustafar, which is a really easy retcon. Most of the "destroy the Sith" stuff comes from interviews by George Lucas after the fact, and he has a tendency to backtrack and flip-flop over the years. Which is why we have a ST in the first place.

 

With the EU, those returning Sith were explained in various ways; Krayt learned from a Sith spirit, and after being tortured by Vong he created the One Sith. Lumiya was apprenticed to Vader, styled herself a Dark Lady of the Sith, and studied more before approaching Jacen. Point being, they were built of preexisting characters and realities of the EU and films; throwing all of that aside, limiting it to just the films, TCW, and new books, having them bring back the Sith again not only seems to go against what George said about Anakin's role in bringing balance, but kinda feels like "more of the same", doing what the EU did instead of something new. I know it's unavoidable, mimicking the EU in many respects, but villains could've been one way to go that did offer something new and different. Then again, could be worse; they could mimic DE and have Luke go dark and clones of Palpatine constantly popping up.

 

Still, the fact that the Dark Side has any power at all goes against what George Lucas said both in the wake of RotS and while making the PT.

The sad thing is Padme says there is still good in him and Luke says in ROTJ there is good in you. Its recurring. There is good in him. And that will bring balance to the force. He needs to get rid of the Sith and bring balance to the Force."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.


"The first film starts with the last age of the Republic; which is it's getting tired, old, it's getting corrupt. There's the rise of the Sith, who are now becoming a force, and in the backdrop of this you have Anakin Skywalker: a young boy who's destined to be a very significant player in bringing balance back to the Force and the Republic.

In the second film, we get into more of that turmoil. It's the beginning of the Clone Wars, it's the beginning of the end of democracy in the Republic, sorta the beginning of the end of the Republic, and it's Anakin Skyalker beginning to deal with some of his more intense emotions of anger, hatred, sense of loss, possessiveness, jealousy, and the other things he's coping with.

Then we will get to the 3rd film, where he is seduced to the dark side, which brings up to films four, five, and six, where Anakin's offspring redeem him & allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."

--George Lucas, The Star Wars Trilogy VHS Boxset 2000.


So, one can state that he just changes his mind a lot; but that's the definition of flip-flopping. Based on that, the Dark Side should be totally cowed as a result of Anakin's redemption and killing of his master. It wasn't, and a lot of fans got along just fine.

The "Destroy the Sith" interpretation of the prophecy is also contradicted in the Mortis arc of TCW, where the Father specifically states that the Chosen One is supposed to tame both the Light Side and the Dark Side and is supposed to replace the Father upon his death, with the implication that too much of the Light Side would have disastrous implications for the Galaxy at large. And that is canon within the new films, we know that.

 

People did have a problem with Krayt. The Legends EU was often criticized for "Sith of the week." The Sith ended up showing so often that they ceased to be interesting and threatening.

 

They didn't come back for at least fifteen years. Krayt, Lumiya (really early on) and Caedus were the first living Sith to appear in the L:EU post ROTJ, unless you count Exar Kun's phantom. Everyone else was just a Dark Jedi.

EDIT: I guess you could count Palpetine's clones in DE, but that's stretching things.

 

The idea that evil was destroyed in the universe by taking out Palpatine and the Sith is pretty darn silly. Too fairy-tale.

The EU wasn't exactly "Sith of the week" even after the One Sith and Caedus were introduced... Even after the Lost Tribe came along. It was more "dark Jedi of the week" as a way to have evil Force users and people up duel with Luke and/or his students... THAT got tiresome. And then the plethora of Maul-tatted One Sith members...

 

The idea that the Sith are the only source of evil in the universe is definitely "pretty darn silly" and "too fairy-tale".

KOTOR, KOTOR II, TOR, Caedus, Lost Tribe, One Sith

Name something published after The Unifying Force that used the term "dark jedi".

 

I meant more in the Bantam era... And Sith in KOTOR/TOR are understandable.

 

Sith pre TPM don't really apply, since it really has nothing to do with GL's statements on them post ROTJ.


And I honestly forgot about Lost Tribe. That was a pretty stupid idea, though.

 

Isn't there an EU Legends thread for this kind of discussion?


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The point is that retcons are nothing new with Star Wars, and shouldn't necessarily be considered the sky falling. With every new PT movie a wave of retcons swept through Star Wars on a multimedia level.

 

That's a great point, especially considering or in relation to the film verse.


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Come on guys, the events at the end of ROTJ clearly indicate that the Empire had been defeated. Game over.

It's only since Disney bought Star Wars that sequels have been on the cards - GL was never going to make them. It's Disney's property now and they can do what they like . At the moment the concept of 'canon' is up for grabs. We know that the EU has no bearing on the movies. If Disney wanted to, they could have Greedo wake up having dreamt the PT and THAT WOULD BE CANON!

And this is fabulous news - it means we can look toward to a broader, more interesting SW universe than we knew. Heck, we could even get the mysterious, interesting Boba Fett we all imagined before GL bizarrely hamstrung his own creation in AOTC.

 

From what I read, Lucas started on the ST before the sale? I can't remember where I read it, but it's out there somewhere.

 

Treatments for &,8, and 9 were part of the sale. GL was already working on them.

 

I'm not sure if the ST was ever going to be completed, but there was an ST in existence before the sale.