Return of the Basher's Sanctuary

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Quixotic-Sith, Jul 10, 2003.

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  1. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    In preparing this new Sanctuary, I sat back and watched Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. I wanted to remember the Original Trilogy I knew and loved. I wanted to revisit the movies that took me back to childhood, playing with X-Wings with my friends, pretending to be Jedi protecting the galaxy. I remembered the characters I loved, the action, the adventure, the sense of romance and swashbuckling as my favorite team of heroes championed the cause of rebellion against a tyrannical Empire, personified in the dessicated husk of the Emporer. Their triumphs, their tragedies, the heart and soul the films brought with them.

    This exercise was both a blessing and a curse - in watching Han, Leia, Luke, Obi-Wan, Yoda and Vader, I couldn't help but remember how "meh" the prequel trilogy has been thus far. The films belong to a different era, with different priorities in their story and production. Where once story drove the saga, and the effects were what they could muster to support it, now effects drive the saga, and the story is what can be mustered to support them. I can't help but feel that the new films are missing something, a quiddity that drove the relationships and the characters. I find it hard to root for the "heroes" of the prequel trilogy, I find it hard to believe that these films exist in the same universe. I like parts of them, but find them to be a far cry from the Original Trilogy.

    I know I don't stand alone.

    This is the essence of the Basher's Sanctuary - it is a gathering ground for folks who were less than charmed with the prequel trilogy thus far. It is a safe haven where frustrations with the films can be aired and discussed without character assassinations, disinvitations to the forums, and an atmosphere of respect. It is a place where we can discuss the elements we feel work well and work poorly, a place where we know we can disagree, but where we know our opinions will not be mocked, ridiculed, or vilified. In short, a Sanctuary from the slings and arrows of militant fandom - from those who cannot accept that "fans" can like and dislike aspects of a saga, just as fans of football can like the team but dislike the defensive line.

    By posting in this thread, it is recognized that fans come in many shapes and sizes, in many different ideologies and opinions. The focus of this thread is discussion on the relative merits and demerits of The Phantom Menace - it is the essence of this forum, and as such it is only appropriate that discussions revolve around it. While other topics may be brought up for discussion, they need to be related to the film in some manner.

    There are some ground rules:

    1. First and foremost, we discuss the films, not the posters. This thread is not a haven for flaming, trolling, or flame-baiting. If these types of behaviors occur, they will result in warnings and bannings. Historically, "bashers" have gotten a bad name - it is within our power to demonstrate what it means to be good netizens. Treat your fellow fans with respect, even if you disagree vehemently with them. If you are flamed, turn the other cheek and contact a mod - that's what we're here for. If a troll appears, don't feed them - contact a mod instead.

    2. Discussions in this thread must remain related to TPM. Discussions of other films, both in the saga and out of it, must be related back to TPM in some manner. Being on topic is what kept and keeps the Sanctuary here - if it is to continue, it must remain topical.

    3. Disagreement is permitted and encouraged. "Gushing", however, is off-topic. What does this mean? I'll give you an example:

      "I think that the characterization of Jar Jar Binks suffered from how Ahmed Best portrayed him. He could have been portrayed with a lot more dignity and a lot less slapstick."

      This is acceptable:

      "I disagree. I think it helped sell the character by making him someone you might be embarassed to hang out with - he's supposed to be awkward and a
  2. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    A great start to what I'm sure will be a great thread.

  3. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    A round of Corellian ale for all, on me! ;)
  4. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Ok I just want to first say good luck with the new thread ;) I also wanted to say Quix I some how knew you were the one who was going to start this new thread ;)

    Well again good luck with this new thread ever one. :)
  5. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Well, enjoy the new digs, folks. I'll lurk for a while and let you have your fun.

    (And responding to a question in the old sanctuary, yes, my nick comes from Bewitched as my real name happens to be Darren. It's not my preferred nickname, but my favorite was unavailable for a number of reasons.)
  6. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    I think ultimately Q-S taking charge in making this new version of the Basher's Sanctuary is just an excuse for him to have his name appear at the top of the forum for a third time 8-}

    *runs away from being banned* :D

    Good luck with the new version. Is this the third or the fourth time the Basher's Sanctuary has been redone? :confused:
  7. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Great post, Quix! That was one in a million!
  8. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Okay, first post in the new sanctuary. EDIT Except for the 7 others who beat me to it! :_| :p

    As much as I loved the OT, the first film of the PT was not quite up to par with the originals.

    There were many things about TPM that I enjoyed, and still do, but the flaws still are apparent.

    JarJar, while he is supposed to represent the person you wouldn't want to be seen in public with, I think his character went a little too far in that direction. The character of the buffoon, the fool, in most mythology, is supposed to be an act that conceals a very intelligent person, like Yoda in ESB.

    Lady Sami
  9. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    Thanks Binary!

    //waits for Stryphe's comment about the length of the opening post.
  10. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    I just love that new Basher Sanctuary smell.
  11. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    "Good luck with the new version. Is this the third or the fourth time the Basher's Sanctuary has been redone?"

    This is the third Sanctuary. :)
  12. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    I recently popped in an old pan-and-scan copy of the original edit of Star Wars, and even on that crappy old tape I was struck by how much more heart and soul the OT had compared to the comparatively emotionally-bereft nature of the PT so far. Not that the PT hasn't had its moments... it has. But a good Star Wars movie needs more than occasional "moments".

    I'm glad we've got this little corner of the JC where we can discuss this sort of thing, and I hope the new page is allowed to remain open as long as it needs to be.
  13. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Excellent post, Quix. Congrats on the new Sanctuary!!! I think this will be the best one yet! I look forward to participating in the spicy discussion that happens in here. :)

    EDIT: I think that glitch in the boards that causes the opening post of a thread to appear at the top of all the pages sometimes could be an excellent thing for this thread. Perhaps newbies and visitors from both sides of the fence will read and re-read it.

  14. Daughter_Of_TheForce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2001
    star 4
  15. VCT Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 3
    Excellent intro, Quix -- you da man! Though it'd be a bit long for the title scroll. ;)

    I can't help but feel that the new films are missing something, a quiddity that drove the relationships and the characters.

    I agree, and I know what is missing in the PT, for me at least. It's called "heart." (edit: Patrick Russell, you beat me to it!)

    I watched the original Star Wars (not the SE) last week. And a few days later, I happened to see AotC on HBO. It was only the second viewing of AotC for me, and let's just say that the contrast wasn't pretty. The film from '77 was still an emotional powerhouse -- if anything, even better than I remembered. By comparison, the film from '02 came off like a SW-wannabe film tailor-made for MST3000, crossed with a very high-tech video game. :( I don't think all of it is that bad, but too much of it is.


    edit2: typos
  16. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Patrick Russell,

    Correlian ale? Does that go well with champagne? I'll drink it anyway, I'm gonna have a hangover from the champagne alone, might as well make it worth it!

    EDIT You're also correct on the movie reference! What was the prize?

    Durwood,

    Sami is short for Samantha, also from Bewitched, altho I've always liked the name.

    Lady Sami
  17. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    New Sanctuary, old topic, but I'm trying to set a standard! :D

    First and foremost, let me bash the unnecessary need to have OT characters make cameos and unnecessary (out of character) use of returning OT characters.

    Case in point and a popular example...
    See Threepio!

    A character that served a purpose in the OT and has done little more than to act as second rate comedy in TPM and AOTC!

    Threepio was a translator, he served that role in the OT and it was expanded upon. In the PT, he's little more than an example to show Anakin's ability to build things (as if a pod racer in his backyard wasn't enough!) or he's involved in the same tired, old jokes.
    At worst in TPM, he's a poor attempt to have a physical bond between Anakin and his mother. (And that's stretching it!)
    The character has no substance in the PT, he's rehashing variations of lines from TESB, he has no significant interaction with any characters save Artoo-Detoo, and this is to please fans.

    Anakin leaves and Threepio serves little purpose, even when he's shown again in AOTC, he's little more than a door greeter!

    I realize some would argue that Threepio is an emerging character, but look at Artoo Detoo. Artoo is first shown in a heroic role, and has always been shown as such.
    Threepio is marking time until the "real" comic relief known as Jar Jar Binks, exits!

    It's too bad, Threepio could should have had a place in the PT, after all George Lucas plans to wipe his memories anyway, what would it have hurt to give the character something to do?
    Show Threepio in a different light or give him a different personality?

    Sorry, George, it's sad that TPM was your chance to continue the greatness, instead you relegate characters like Threepio and Obi-Wan, to the background. It's sad that in Threepio's case he can't take part in cool lightsaber duels to get his moment.
    When he gets his chance it's as a head swapped droid spouting such witty dialogue as "Die Jedi dogs! Die!".
    That's just beautiful. [face_plain]

    Really, next time you view the PT, take the OT cameos out of the PT.
    Does it hurt the story?
    Do these cameo's appearances actually help the story?
    Do these appearances add any real resonance or depth to the characters and their use in the PT?
    Is Lucas sacrificing storytelling for "fan boy" appreciation?

    Ask yourself these questions and keep them in mind as more and more news reports/"spoilers" concerning OT character appearances become more common.
  18. Django211 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 1999
    star 4
    Its shocking to see the old Sanctuary with that line through it, its like the gushers have won :p
  19. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Django211,

    Yeah, but soon it will be a few pages back and the gushers will only see this one.

    I like the new basher's sanctuary smell, too!

    Lady Sami
  20. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Well, new sanctuary, I guess it's time to introduce ourselves...

    Let me say that I'm 1/2 psychotic and 1/2 meglomaniacal...
    If this is a problem then I suggest someone sending me enough money to cover the necessary medical expenses. ;)
    I also think I'm humorous, so you'd better laugh at my posts that are meant to be laughed at. You'll figure it out in due time. ;)

    I'm only here because Lucas made Star Wars in 1977 and I saw it when I was 4 years old.
    To all young and future bashers I say...
    Get out now while you still can! SW will ruin your life!

    If you have the guts to stay, remember that even though Phantom Menace was first in the episode numbering, it wouldn't have ever been made if it wasn't for those original fans in '77!
    You may not like Star Wars (or as you know it :A New Hope. The Special Edition doesn't count), but at least respect it... it's because of it and our love for what that film represented that we bash!

    On with the bashing! :D
  21. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    Hmmm, Quix the new author, didn't see that coming ;)


    //waits for Stryphe's comment about the length of the opening post.

    [face_mischief] OK, yes, I couldn't read the whole thing again, but it did make me nastilgic for the days when your average post was about 2,000 words long. How times have changed.


    And responding to a question in the old sanctuary, yes, my nick comes from Bewitched as my real name happens to be Darren.

    Ironically, my brother's name was pulled from Bewitch, too. So, you are one of the few with the name Darren spelled right ;)
  22. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    "Correlian ale? Does that go well with champagne?"


    Yeah, I like to call it a "seismic charge". (Though that's more a morning-after thing than a night-before thing...) ;)
  23. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Patrick Russell,

    That's okay. I just found out the only booze I can drink on my diet is vodka! Bring on the Stolnyka! Or however you spell it!

    I was at a party Tuesday night and could have had a vodka martini! Shaken, not stirred.

    I find it odd that there are no drink references in the PT, except the bar scene in AOTC. The OT had plenty of them, if I remember correctly.

    Lady Sami

  24. Wampa_Joe Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2001
    star 2
    If this is Return of the Basher's Sanctuary, does that mean the thread is going to be infested with Ewoks? Because if it is, so help me God...
  25. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    New thread, same talking heads.

    [Dorothy] "There's no place like home." [/Dorothy] :)
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