Return of the Basher's Sanctuary

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Quixotic-Sith, Jul 10, 2003.

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  1. Loco_for_Lucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    Never underestimate the power of the elderly. :p
  2. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "Joshua Griffin owns the site. His eye is all-seeing, lidless, ensconced in flame..."

    [face_laugh] More veiled LOTR references. When the Modship is away, the Quix will play. :p
  3. DarthMaul13 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 1998
    star 4
    Posting at 3SA sucks. It's full of Lucas butt-kissers. I need to limit my posting at that dump.
  4. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    CeeJay, I feel the love too, man! :) LOTR films are deeply moving. I am more looking forward to ROTK:EE than anything that is coming to the theatres. In a way, ROTK is a 3 hour, 20 minute preview of the full glory which will be ROTK:EE.

    And there can be more! Both New Line and Peter Jackson seem interested in doing The Hobbit. Imagine seeing a three-hour version on the big screen, then a three-and-a-half-hour version on the Extended Edition DVD! Step aside, Lucas. Let Jackson show the world how a real prequel is done! :D
  5. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    JW
    Since you asked, I'll answer. Be careful of what you ask for... ;)

    The female "Dr. Octopus" was a part of the infamous Clone Saga that occured in the Spider-Man books a few years ago...
    Marvel tried to do a "revamp" of the Spidey mythos and said that the Peter Parker that had existed since the late 70's was a clone.
    Needless to say, this move really angered long time Spidey fans and Marvel went back and ended the storyline with Peter NOT being a clone.

    Here's a semi-quick Spider-Man history lesson... (Straight from memory, so it may not be completely accurate! It's close enough... ;))

    There was a clone storyline in the late 70's, Peter Parker was cloned by an enemy, The Jackal, AKA Dr. Miles Warren.
    Eventually, Spidey and his clone fought, all hell broke loose, the clone was thought to have been destroyed and I think the Jackal was killed too, in that battle.
    To be certain he wasn't a clone, the surviving Spider-Man was tested by Curt Connors (I think), but destroyed the results because he felt love for Gwen Stacy or Mary Jane (I forgot), which he felt the clone wouldn't have.

    Anyway, the clone popped up in the late 90's and claimed HE was the real Peter Parker and used the alias of Ben Reilly and called himself the Scarlet Spider.
    The female "Doc Ock" fought him, I don't believe she fought Spider-Man.

    I think she was obssessed with the real Doc Ock, and when he was thought to be dead, ran around trying to live in his footsteps.
    I believe she got her butt kicked and quit playing Doc Ock, or the real Dr. Octopus stopped her, I don't remember which...
    Anyway, I haven't seen her in a long time and she is definately not a "new" Dr. Octopus.

    Dr. Ock is still good ol' Otto Octavious.
    BTW, one of my old Marvel cards lists him as being 5'9", 245 lbs.

    I'll join in on the comic discussion later... This recollection of the Clone Saga has caused me to fall into depression. :(

    EDIT: In the newest issue of Republic, it is stated that Tuskens and humans aren't compatable, so no rapin' in the ol' Tusken tent tonite. ;)
    As is typical in the world of SW, one EU source cancels out another! 8-}
  6. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Who owns TFN?

    Joshua Griffin owns the site. His eye is all-seeing, lidless, ensconced in flame...


    Actually he just runs the site. The guy who owns rebelscum.com owns like 2/3rds of the site. Josh owns 1/3.... or so it has been explained to me by other mods.

  7. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    Lurking_Around - Oh man you have to let the original batman incanation by Kane and Finger go! that universe no longer exist after Crisis on Infinate Earths

    That's like saying "Lurking, you have to let the Original OT go! It doesn't exist anymore after the SE!"

    [face_mischief]

    Honestly, there are some great stuff in the O'Neil era. Dennis O'Neil himself is a great writer, precisely because he uses the whole " Batman doesn't kill" nonsense as an oppurtunity for great stories. Same with other good O'Neil era writers like Greg Rucka (pretty much my fave Bat-writer these days, his Batman/Huntress mini-series is one of my fave comics of all time) and Devin Grayson (good, but inconsistent). However, most of the time, the whole thing just annoys me. Look at Year One: a wounded Batman can still handle a SWAT Team, and amidst all the chaos he still avoids killing even one of them??? LMAO!

    Nope, I feel that the original Batman was more honest, more human. He can't always avoid killing, in the same way that a cop can't always avoid killing. A human isn't like Superman, who can use his super speed to grab the criminal before he falls of the building. The "no killing" Batman is some superhero saint who can always pull some gadget or has some super skills that ensure he doesn't kill anyone. Riiiight...

    And Like I said before, read Robin Year One

    I've read it a long time ago, it sucks. The original Robin origin by Bill Finger is marginally better, though that's not saying much since I still hate Robin. The origins in the animated series is kinda cool, but I hated the series when they started having Robin. I like it better when Batman was alone. The series was dark and creepy, more Burton-ish, from the mood to the Elfman-inspired theme (Shirley Walker, who composed the theme for the animated series, is a protege of Elfman, if I'm not mistaken). "Mask of the Phantasm" was very enjoyable, since there was no Robin at all.

    In conclusion:

    Original Batman and Tim Burton movies = the Original OT. These are the "real stuff" for me.

    The O'Neil era Batman and animated series = SE OT. Some parts are good, but still inferior to the original (except for the eye-candy. The SE has better FX, in the same way that the O'Neil era comics have better art).

    DC = Lucas :p Well, they're better than Lucas since they also release the "Batman Archives", a collection of the original comics by Kane/Finger/Fox. Lucas, on the other hand, just wants to release the SE (or the Ultimate Edition, or whatever it's called).

    :D
  8. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    I got a couple of bucks, how can I get a piece of the .TFN action? ;)

    It might be fun to be thought of as one of the lords of the geeks. 8-}

    Quick superhero related comments...

    I've always liked Spider-Man better than Batman, Superman, the X-Men and the Hulk, so I enjoyed that movie a great deal.
    Peter Parker is much easier to relate to than the others, so I found the Spider-Man movie to be much more of a personal human drama than anything else.

    Sorry, Ceejay, the best Batman suit was in the first film, Batman returns looked too much like armor and the later films had nipples and sculpted Batasses,'Nuff said!

    I'm not much of a D.C. fan, but...
    Batman is too overrated IMHO (How many times has he beaten Superman?!), he's dark, gritty and beats the crap out of criminals... Feh! That said, I'd much rather read about him than Superman.
    I'll give credit where credit's due, the Batman Animated Series was very cool. I loved that cartoon, the stories were great.

  9. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    Batman is too overrated IMHO (How many times has he beaten Superman?!)

    And that's why I hate crossovers in comics. I avoid all those "hero vs hero" nonsense. And Batman beating up Superman is always laughable, because somehow he always carries kryptonite with him! Riiight...

    Peter Parker is much easier to relate to than the others

    I can't relate to the comic Peter Parker. He's a boy genius who can invent gadgets even though he's just a teen. Wow! He's like, Dexter from Cartoon Network. I bet Parker has a secret lab and a mad sister named DeeDee :p

    The movie Parker was much better. He's an average geek, I like him. However, he also has great tailoring skills and can conjure that ultra-futuristic Spidey costume out of nowhere [face_mischief]

    I can't relate to Bruce Wayne, but for me that's what makes him realistic (or relatively realistic. I mean, I still have yet to see a belt where you can put a thousand things in it [face_laugh]). A vigilante in the real world would not be a pathetic geek like me. He would need cash, lots of cash, to finance his operation. AND he needs to just have the cash rather than work hard for the cash (if he has to work hard, he won't have time to do vilante work!). Thus, you get Bruce Wayne, who gets rich through inheritance, a modern day aristocrat. This guy could easily exist in the real world.
  10. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Peter Parker in the movie was very relatable, if you weren't a jock or popular in school.
    I feel he was relatable in the comics, but the movie, in being more comptemporary, it really made me identify with the character.
    I just hope the sequel has some trademark Spidey humor, that's the only big gripe I had with the first one was there was too little of that, besides I didn't care for the Green Goblin suit, but it kinda grew on me.

    See, it's the concept of realism that makes me like the Punisher more than Batman.
    Although, for either to exist for any real length of time in their profession and still live is very unrealistic.
    But I think by being trained in armed and unarmed combat, Punisher with a .45 pistol would likely last much longer than Batman and his batarangs would.
    At least when the Punisher ever teamed up with a teen, Microchip Jr., the kid didn't last very long (He got sliced up by a Japanese guy with a katana!), and Junior was armed with a M-16! I'd figure Robin wouldn't have seen 21 if he was really a costumed vigilante.

    It would take a man that was an ex-soldier and proficient with warfare and tactical techniques to really make a dent in the criminal world, realistically.
    I'll admit, I'm pro capital punishment, so shooting criminals isn't something I'd find objectionable in reality, and I think eliminating them is the best way to stop repeat offenders that don't give a damn.

    Since the Punisher takes the criminals money when he takes them out, I think that's more likely than having a millionare superhero (Tony Stark/Iron Man included). Since Punisher has also taken the criminals weapons and gear in the past, it shows that he's pretty self-sufficient. As long as there are bad guys, he's gonna be re-supplied.

    I'll admit that there have been some lame "big guy with a gun" Punisher stories, but with the right writers and artists, the character is someone you don't want to mess with.

    I still appreciate that when there was a Batman/Punisher crossover, it came down to Punisher almost putting a bullet in the Joker, too bad Batman stopped him, but that was sooo expected, D.C. wouldn't let that happen. [rolls_eyes]

    Word of warning about this superhero movie topic: If the Punisher movie with Thomas Jane sucks, I'm really gonna be pissed, so expect me not to post for a few months. ;)
  11. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    Well, I don't care for the Punisher because there's nothing unique about the guy, he's like a dozen other action heros out there. Want a good Punisher movie? Go rent an action movie, there are DOZENS of movies where a muscled ex Army/FBI/Marine/SEAL/whatever uses lots of guns to take revenge against criminals who killed his family/girlfriend/second cousin twice removed.

    In fact, I'm pretty sure there's a Steven Seagal movie that could have beeen a Punisher movie, only Seagal's character didn't wear some skull T-Shirt [face_laugh]
  12. DarthMaul13 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 1998
    star 4
    I posted this at Community and I thought maybe some of you would be interested in this as well.
    It's just a list of all the Comic Book movies coming out this year.


    Dark Horse Comics

    Hellboy - (April 2)

    [image=http://superherohype.com/gallery/Hellboy/The_Movie/Movie_Stills/wizardjan041.jpg]

    The Official Site & Trailer


    DC Comics

    Catwoman - (July 30)

    [image=http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/jackensack/SHOWTIMECATWOMAN.gif]

    Trailer expected Feb 1st


    Constantine - (Sept 17)

    [image=http://www.lifepress.com/archivio/Movies%202003/Constantine/Thumbnails/index-65501.jpg]

    Trailer not available yet.


    Marvel Comics

    The Punisher - (April 16)

    [image=http://superherohype.com/gallery/Punisher/The_Movie/Movie_Stills/punishernov.jpg]

    The Official Site & Trailer


    Spider-man 2 - (July 2)

    [image=http://superherohype.com/gallery/Spider-Man/Spider-Man_2/On_Set/New_York/setpicsjuly6.jpg]

    The Official Site & Trailer


    Blade Trinity - (August 13)

    [image=http://www.staticgroove.com/images/misc/snipes1b.jpg]

    Trailer not available yet.


    Man-Thing - (August 27)

    Trailer not available yet.

  13. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Lurking,
    You need to read some of the books, there's more going on than shoot outs.
    Yeah, there is always plenty of action, but some of the stories are well crafted.

    If you want to look at the Punisher in a generic sense, he's a vigilante that use guns, fine, nothing new there.
    But within the confines of the Marvel Universe, he's a character that stands out.
    In fact, I remember in the late 80's/early 90's, his books would constantly top the charts in sales, beating many of the big name characters!

    BTW, the Punisher predates Seagal and his action films, his first appearance was in 1974. Think Dirty Harry and Death Wish and you're much closer to the character's origins. In fact, Taxi Driver is in a similar vein, also.

    I'll give you that Seagal and the Punisher use Colt .45 auto's, but why not use the best tool for the job?
  14. Lurking_Around Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 6
    BTW, the Punisher predates Seagal and his action films

    I know, but there's a Seagal movie that really looks and sounds like a Punisher movie (except for the skull T-shirt :p). I forgot the name of the movie, sorry.

    Then again, like I said, the origins/stories of Punisher are a cliche among the action movie genre, there are a dozen movies like it. In fact, now that I think of it, there was a trailer for a recent Van Diesel movie that also sounds like a Punisher movie [face_laugh] He's just so...not unique, for lack of a better term (and being "unique in the Marvel universe" isn't something big, considering half of Marvel's famous characters are radioactive based and the other half are mutants :p Anything that doesn't fall under that immeadiately becomes unique in the Marvel universe [face_mischief]).

    Oh, and check this out:

    [image=http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/orig/11636_orig.jpg]

    Best Acting by an Ensemble. Definitely an award that the LOTR movies deserve. All the actors were great, and not just the ones in that award picture/banner/whatever. The ones with the really small parts like Gamling and Rosie were great as well. The fact that I could remember a minor character like Gamling (I liked this minor character so much, I requested to have his part in Stryphe's LOTR parody :p) is a testement to the great work the actor put into his character, even for the tiny part.

    I can only hope that Episode 3 has half as good actors in LOTR, that's all I ask. Half the great acting, half the emotion, have a reasonably good conclusion to the PT, that's all I ask. Alas, the more I read the spoilers, the more depressed I become :(
  15. Rhaegar Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 29, 2001
    star 2
    Its a pretty sad state of affairs for Star Wars fans when we are desparate for Episode 3 to be "half as good" as LOTR.

    BTW, I'm going to go see ROTK for the third time today... for comparison, I saw TPM only once in the theatre and didn't see AOTC until it came out on DVD and only viewed it once.

    And before you ask - yes, I hate the prequels.
  16. Darth_Sillyname Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 4
    I dunno what he's complaining about, the tennis ball probably gave a more convincing performance than a real Natalie Portman did.
    - Yes, but apparently little miss Portman is not so bad an actress, given the right material and the right direction. So obviously we can't expect much from her in the prequels.

    Darth Vader BARELY has any screen time in Episode 3. I'm talking about 3 minutes maybe at MAX. But the genuises at Lucasfilm are promoting Episode 3 with Darth Vader all over the teaser trailer, posters and merchandise.
    - I expected that. I don't really want to see Vader at all in episode 3. I doubt he'll be in it anymore than as a overblown cameo. Look, Anakin is turned into bionic Vader! Look, there is Darth Vader! The end.
    Whatever.
    But it makes sense that they'll focus on Vader with the marketing. How else are you going to promote the movie? Come see new cool CG aliens! Come see more CG battles! Come see what happens next with all those characters from the previous episodes!
    No, no. That works for prequel fans, not for the general audiance.
    Tell them "Come see Darth Vader from Star Wars! Come see C-3PO and R2-D2 from Star Wars! Come see Chewbacca from Star Wars! Come see Yoda from Star Wars! Come see the emperor from Star Wars! All with great effects!!
    That works.

    So, is seeing the result of someone's mother beaten and raped then finally murdered part of Lucas' vision of children's entertainment?!!
    - You didn't really see her get beaten, raped and murdered. She just hung there and then she died.
    I think children are capable of taking in much more than some people think. Not everything made for children has to be sweet and nice and warm and friendly. That's something of more recent times. There was often nasty stuff in children's stories.
    When I first saw ROTJ, the saddest and most shocking thing in it was the Ewok who died.
    But there was always some nasty stuff in these movies: droids getting their limbs ripped off, slave girls on chains thrown into pits if they didn't obey, aliens eaten by monsters, soldiers getting blown up, guys getting strangled, scorched bodies, etc...

    I think the rape of Shmi was implied. Obviously it would never be shown or discussed, but it's a 'realistic' scenario.
    There was a thread about it some time ago. Apparently she was tied up like in the movie 'The Searchers', where the character had been raped by Indians (or Native Americans, not those guys from India). The whole Tusken camp thing was inspired by that movie.
    At least I think it was something like that. I could be wrong.

    Friday morning, 9:45,
    'Looney Tunes' audiance: 9.
    ROTK audiance: more or less sold out (again).
    I think Looney Tunes could have benefitted from the inclusion of some massive battle scenes ;)
  17. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    I'm not a big fan of "implied menace" - I like something a bit more tangible to warrant my investment in the story. Yes, Shmi looked like she got worked over right nastily, but, honestly, I didn't connect with her character in TPM, so I had very little impetus to *truly* feel anything beyond a passing "what a shame"; much like my reaction to the "horrific invasion" of Naboo.

    Chicken Run had more of a concrete menace. At least in the kid's claymation movie we see an actual death (in shadow) to give the motivation of the protagonists some gravitas.
  18. SW3TheHolidaySpecial Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2001
    star 4
    I've been an X-Men fan since 86 and personally agree with the changes made. I don't care much for the costumes in the movies, yeah I know, those spandex outfits would never have translated to film but they could have had a little bit of color.

    Punisher,you remind me of when I used to be a Punisher fan ,I first got into him when his first regular series started(the one drawn by Klaus Janson).

    Back then,the Punisher was cool and unique,but the way I see it several things happened to him along the way that watered him down.

    The first was crossovers with other Marvel characters. I loved those first Janson stories that were so down to earth and realistic.

    Then Frank met Logan,and they've been meeting a lot ever since. Must be good for sales.

    Then image happenned and almost every character they had was a clone of Frank, and therefore fans interests in these types of characters dropped like lead.

    What really upsets me now about the Punisher is Garth Ennis. Wolverine is my favorite comic book character and Garth Ennis uses the Punisher to humiliate him. Therefore I won't read Garth Ennis, no matter how good his stories are.

    I don't see the Punisher as a weak character,he CAN be interesting,but is he a hero? He kills,and heroes don't kill, but then how can Wolverine be hero?

    Nightcrawler deals with this issue, in the latest issue of Wolverine as Logan deals with the guilt of killing some 20+men.

    "Is the Wolf evil when it culls sickness from the flock?"-Nightcrawler.

    As a fan of Wolverine I have a difficult time dealing with him killing and also being a hero.

    Thats why people love Batman and Spider-Man so much, they don't have to question whether they are heroic or not.Why?

    Because they don't kill. As characters who refuse to take the easy way out,they have my utmost respect.
  19. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "I saw TPM only once in the theatre and didn't see AOTC until it came out on DVD and only viewed it once."

    Ditto!

    "But there was always some nasty stuff in these movies:...slave girls on chains"

    Ad why is this in your list? [face_laugh]

    "Shmi looked like she got worked over right nastily, but, honestly, I didn't connect with her character in TPM, so I had very little impetus to *truly* feel anything beyond a passing "what a shame"; much like my reaction to the "horrific invasion" of Naboo."

    Quite the opposite here. I did connect with her in TPM, but there simply wasn't enough screentime in AOTC to really take her situation in. It was all from Anakin's POV.

    That being said, could this same "limited screentime" phenomenon have the same negative effect on Darth Vader's character in Ep.III?

    As Darth_Sillyname so eloquently pointed out - "Look, Anakin is turned into bionic Vader! Look, there is Darth Vader! The end."

    Not that I want Vader all over Ep.III either, but it just seems like, at this point, not even the "power of the Dark Side" is going to prevent Ep.III from fizzling out.

    "I'm not a big fan of 'implied menace'...Chicken Run had more of a concrete menace."

    Actually, she was flesh and blood :p . Besides, don't forget that Lucas warned us of this very scenario...
    "The first Trilogy will not be as much of an action adventure kind of thing. Maybe we'll make it have some humor, but right now it's much more humorless than this one...a little more Machiavellian - it's all plotting - more of a mystery." - STARLOG Magazine #48, July 1982"The prequels will be altogether different in look and tone from the existing trilogy. They will be more melodramatic, showing the political intrigue and Machiavellian plotting that led to the downfall of the once-noble Republic. They will have only enough outward action to keep the plot moving. Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Vader will be seen as younger men, while Luke Skywalker may make a brief appearance as a baby in Episode III." - Lucas, 1983/>


    "to give the motivation of the protagonists some gravitas."

    Gravity - Not just a good idea, it's the law! :D

    Otherwise, agreed.

    "Thats why people love Batman and Spider-Man so much, they don't have to question whether they are heroic or not.Why?

    Because they don't kill."


    That being said, their characters are often misjudged as being "bad guys/killers" by their mysterious or by the police, and this puts them in an underdog position, further expanding their appeal to fans.

    (And No, I don't mean [image=http://www.vegalleries.com/misccels/underdog2a.gif] ) :D

    BTW, more reposting of random SW digs...

    "I would have ended the Saga with ROTJ, but Lucas chose to continue it."

    "You refer to the prophecy of the one that would bring unbalance to the Force. [EU?...] Or do you believe it's the Prequels?"


    Prequels, baby! :D/>
  20. Darth_Sillyname Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 4
    "But there was always some nasty stuff in these movies:...slave girls on chains"

    Ad why is this in your list?


    - ok, I'll change that to: people in chains kept by a fat bastard and being fed to monsters.
    That's more disturbing.
    I have nothing against slave girls in chains. In fact I have one of those in my dungeon right now, awaiting spanking and booty action.*

    I didn't care about Shmi either.
    In TPM she was annoying, 'he was meant to help you', 'you have brought hope to those who have none.'
    Bwahahaha! What a joke of a mother! Anakin was lucky to get away from her!
    In AOTC she just turned up in the movie to die.

    I was reading a bit of a thread in 3SA (I really shouldn't), and apparently there are plenty of people who still think some shocking revelations are in store for us concerning who erased the Kamino files and who ordered the clones.
    Wasn't it totally obvious in AOTC that Dooku and Sidious did that?
    Why come up with all these complot theories?
    What would be the point of that? The bad guys ordered the clones and tried to make sure nobody would find out (before the time was right). And when somebody would finally find out they would be told the Jedi had ordered the clones.
    Result: clones are made, Jedi get framed, bad guys are happy.
    What's so difficult about this?







    *)notice the subtle plug for my humour rewrites ;)
  21. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    There's going to be a Man-Thing movie on August 27th? :cool:
  22. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    Punisher-In the newest issue of Republic, it is stated that Tuskens and humans aren't compatable, so no rapin' in the ol' Tusken tent tonite

    What's "Republic"?

    Lurking around
    Nope, I feel that the original Batman was more honest, more human. He can't always avoid killing, in the same way that a cop can't always avoid killing. A human isn't like Superman, who can use his super speed to grab the criminal before he falls of the building. The "no killing" Batman is some superhero saint who can always pull some gadget or has some super skills that ensure he doesn't kill anyone. Riiiight...

    When you say 'original Batman' are you talking about the one from the 30's and 40's? Even back then the vigilante stuff didn't last long. Or are you talking about some recent retelling which has him acting more vengeful again?

    I must say I really like Miller's Batman year one, it really has great pace, great subplots and real danger.
    Has anyone read his latest Dark Knight series? It's pretty weird. I love Miller's stuff, he writes dialogue like Hamett and his art is sublime, but with this latest DK story it's all a bit confusing, reminds me of that Elektra series he and Sinkewicz did, I couldn't follow that at all.

    I really think Burton's Batman is overrated. But then I think Burton is massively overrated anyway, the man can't tell a story to save his life. Granted he comes up with some great visual set-pieces but he has no clue about narrative.

    As for Bats's costume - well it's always tricky, somehow they have to avoid that underwear on the outside look, but I don't much care for all these thick lumps of rubber which make it look like the person would be as athletic as C3PO!
    I think the XMen movies got the mix right with the costumes.

    I believe there was a Punisher movie with Dolph Lundgren .

    That Catwoman suit has gotta be a joke, right?
    I mean Halle Berry is beautiful, but that outfit looks like something thrown together for a fancy dress. Where do they find these idiots? The outfit in Batman Returns was crap too. How hard is it - you have a beautiful woman and you dress her in a slinky cat-outfit, how can you mess that up??!!
    Lee Meriwether looked fantastic in the old TV show, so did Julie Newmar.

    g
  23. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    SW3
    I got into Punisher comics in '89, so at the time, Carl Potts & Jim Lee was on War Journal and Mike Baron & Erik Larsen was on The Punisher.
    In the character's history, a few of the Image artists (Erik Larson, Whilce Portacio, Jim Lee. Thank God not Rob Liefeld, but I felt Cable was a Punisher clone for the mutant set.) worked on him, so it was sad to see The Punisher being ripped off by Image in stuff like Deathblow. The tons of books being published by Marvel helped lead to overexposure.

    I used to collect G.I. Joe rather heavily so the Punisher appeals to me on that level, he's just a guy with a military background running around with super-heroes.
    The Punisher is a fantasized SWAT/Special Forces kind of character that hangs out with Spidey, Wolvie, Ghost Rider, Daredevil and sometimes this is used to great effect.
    I can't stomach lots of the typical "superhero" stuff, with rivalries that span decades and too much status quo, so for me a good Punisher comic fits the bill.

    Garth Ennis used to write Hitman, and he's taken the irreverent approach to superheroes that was popular in that book over to the latest Punisher series, so it doesn't bother me that much, although he does get a bit over the top.
    If anything, I think it's funny the level of stuff he's done to Wolverine, Spider-Man and Daredevil, especially Wolverine, to being shot in the groin, to run over by a steamroller, to shot with a RPG, Ennis has given the healing factor a workout. [face_laugh]
    It's satirical and personally, I think it shows how silly some superheroes are.

    With the MAX series starting this month, the Punisher has the potential to be like Preacher. A well written book that has a following and can create a bit of controversy, but not as much silliness.

    In reality, heroes kill. Solidiers, police officers, they sometimes have to kill to save others or to stop a threat... I realize the Punisher is a exaggeration of when that has to sometimes happens, but it makes more sense to shoot someone than to always battle them, over and over again, when they continue to escape Arkham or the Vault.

    Lurking
    As for Steven Seagal flicks, you are either thinking of Above the Law, Hard to Kill, or Out for Justice.
    As action flicks go, his were pretty entertaining until "On Deadly Ground"... "It's violence with a political/environmental message"... And a career killer. ;)
    (Don't get too "superior" folks, everyone used to watch those Seagal, Van Damme flicks in the 90's. I did.)

    My attitude when it comes to characters, is that Punisher is kinda like Batman, he's alone, his family was killed by criminals right before his eyes, and driven in his mission to end crime, it's just two different takes on the same kind of theme.
    Give Batman a gun, no sidekicks, less empahsis on detective work, some extreme violence and you've got a "Punisher" character.

    Even Batman isn't original, ever heard of Zorro or The Phantom?
    I've learned, originality is overruled when a character has endured for decades, especially in comics. If the stories are entertaining, what does it matter?

    Yeah, unfortunately, that Lundgren Punisher film resulted from New World's ownership of Marvel at the time.
    Still, it isn't as craptacular as Captain America or the unreleased Fantastic Four movie.

    What's Republic?
    The comic book that chronicles the SW galaxy during the time of the Prequels. Currently covering the Clone Wars.
    It started before TPM came out and was called STAR WARS, it was a bit of back history revolving around Ki-Adi-Mundi and the TPM era, but eventually changed into dealing with other Jedi and denizens of the galaxy.
    It's essentially the same thing as the old Marvel series was for the OT.

    Catwoman was an easy costume to crew up... The sad thing is it seems that Hollywood has a lot of unemployed costume/concept designers that need jobs, so the studios hire them to tinker with things that don't necessarily need too much work or re-imagining.
  24. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    " (Don't get too "superior" folks, everyone used to watch those Seagal, Van Damme flicks in the 90's. I did.) "

    Sure, but not because of Seagal...

    [image=http://www.absolutepictures.com//e/eleniak_erika/images/pictures/084.jpg]

    [image=http://www.absolutepictures.com//e/eleniak_erika/images/pictures/091.jpg]

    The good guys always have hot chicks in their films! [face_love] ;)

    (Too bad I can't show the best pic. [face_mischief] )
  25. oLiquidRusho Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2002
    star 2
    "But what has always shaken me was the reaction of shot of Luke as he looks upon his dead aunt and uncle. At that moment, we realize that this is not just a kiddie movie, and Luke is not just a whiny teen -- I'll never forget the look of resolve on his face as if he is thinking "I will get whoever did this." The music at that moment also really lifted that scene. And who could forget the next cutaway shot of the Death Star and the two Tie Fighters -- as if the image alone was an answer to what Luke was wondering.

    I felt a little of something during Shmi's death, but I will admit that I have seen that type of death scene in so many Westerns and war movies so I feel it is somewhat diminished in impact. I think the ANH one is more shocking for a first time viewer and actually more brilliantly conveyed. Luke standing in front of his home engulfed in smoke is just more powerful an image imo."

    Hmm, I don't know. Upon my first viewing of ANH I thought it was insanely predictable that his aunt and uncle were going to die. I didn't laugh or blow my breath at it of course. Just I didn't feel anything for them. They weren't developed properly (they still aren't, even with the prequels) and up to that point Luke kept rejecting Obi-Wan's persistant suggestions that Luke should go with him. Almost every movie needs to give their main character a motivation and viola, once he kept rejecting I figured they were gonna be dead meat. Even kiddie movies have a tragedy to jumpstart its main character. Anyone remember Mufasa's death in Lion King? Wouldn't you consider Lion King as a "kiddie movie" in regards to the same type Star Wars has "aimed" for? But I will agree I thought the standing in front of the burnt corpses scene was a good shot. No doubts there.

    Shmi's death is hard to feel for as it was forshadowed throughout AOTC (and you pretty much figure considering she's not in the OT) she's dead meat too. If I felt anything, I felt for Anakin's clinging of hope that she'd live. *Actually I thought this to be a well acted scene by Hayden* But nonetheless, I didn't really go "aww man she's dead" But I felt Anakin when he went ape crap on the villagers.

    To be honest my real beef with the SW saga is that there are no deaths that seem terribly shocking to me. Obi-Wan got hacked, but for me, I saw it coming. He had the lines of a dead man throughout the movie. Sure, Episode III is gonna have a few deaths of REAL IMPORTANT characters, but really, we knew they'd be dead. Even though I personally enjoy the prequels as much as I enjoy the originals, I do think it was sorta a mistake to do the prequels. I don't care who you are, but one way the other, these movies weren't gonna win, just because we knew the basic outcome. We're just getting things spelled out for us in the prequels. Yes they're entertaining to me, but they can NEVER ever be powerful just because I can figure the fates of characters like Anakin, his mother, Obi-Wan, Mace, and Padme. Part of the power of film is that you're never really too sure if any of the characters will make it through the film or its sequels. Prequels in general have not been that powerful. I saw Red Dragon about a year ago, which I enjoyed, but because I knew the fate of the main killer and Hannibal himself, it kinda blows the effect. The only one person's fate I wasn't too sure of was Edward Norton's character.

    In fact I know many people who read the Lord of the Rings books, and a lot have told me that if they had known these movies were to come out, they would've never read the books because for them, they know everything and it ruins the true power of the movies.

    By the way, I read an earlier post that said they were offended that Lucas portrayed Shmi in a "raped" fashion. That had to been one of the most desperate attempts at finding a reason to dislike a movie. Whatever happened to "I just didn't feel the movie"? I truly love reading the opinions of people who dislike something I like, but really, that was ridiculous. Thats like me saying Oh I love the pr
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