Return of the Defenders of the A&P Love Story (Part 2)

Mmmmmmm....Hayden and icing.... Thank you *so* much for that absolutely loverly thought....and, yeah, I know this was a bit of a divergence, or a distraction if you will, but hey - you made me think of it, and now it's all I can think about!

Love what your little guy said about watching the OT, Zam....aaahhh, what a sweetie. And he's entirely right, of course - I mean, speaking from personal experience, I know that the OT only ended up having real, powerful emotional resonance for me because of the PT....that's when I could truly see our Ani behind the mask....and, of course, when I started seeing more and more of him in Luke - more of Padme in Leia, of course, and more of the whole Skywalker line in general....it was even more seamless and finely interwoven, it all just *connected* in a most marvellous, entirely wonderful way - and now, when I watch the OT DVDs, it's because of the PT that they pack such a wallop for me. Especially at the end of ROTJ now, but then, we all knew that....


Dawn.

 

I know what you mean. I loved the OT long before the prequels, but I didn't see them or the story the way I do now. To me back then, Vader was just a bad guy, I knew there had to be a story there, after all somebody loved him enough to have his kids, but I didnt' really see alot of Anakin in Vader, just Vader.

But after TPM, adn AOTC, now when I watch the OT I can see things in VAder that were always there but for some reason I missed (probably becaues I was so fixated on Han - Han/Leia), and even in other scenes tehre are so many subtlies that I mised or didn't understand until now. Testimony that George was thinking ahead, even then.

For example when Luke first asks Obi-Wan about his father (in ANH)you can see the hesitation in his face and voice. You can tell that there is more to the story. Even with the whole "certain point of view" line in ROTJ, you can still tell that its not something Obi-Wan really likes to talk about, and you can hear and see the regret he has about how things went.

Putting Ian into ESB, just makes sense. And I have a feeling the extra dialogue will make alot more sense after ROTS, as well I believe a lot of other things.

Too many people expect every viewing to have that same awe they had the first time they sat in the theatre as kids and watched it. I love SW always have and always will,but never again will I ever be that wideyed 8 year old, in the old Dakota theatre with her jaw on the floor for two straight hours. I know the story, and I am now an adult. I've moved on.. to many people haven't. They are expecting too much.

 

Right...if I had to name the absolutely best thing about the prequels, it would be that they've added so much more to a familiar story.

--MissPadme

 

IF I HAD TO NAME THE BEST THING ABOUT THE SEQUELS IT WOULD BE HAYDEN! I was just looking at some of my screen saver shots and boy he is getting better looking as he matures ...just makes the blood boil

 

For me it would be having new Star Wars movies.

 

I don't know if anyone from the said mailing list are also JCers, but before I get any complaints, I just want to make a friendly reminder about SWC's "discuss the films, not the fans" policy, to avoid trouble.

 

*askance look* No one was "discussing" any other fans, as you will note. Neither was there even the slightest hint of trouble in anything that we were saying - nor could it possibly be construed as untoward or undesirable. No harm was meant, and no harm can possibly come of it. I'm quite sure that we wouldn't wish for any overreactions here....just as I would also wish that we be allowed to mention topics of conversation without fear of reprisal. To be able to have a discussion is, after all, what we are here for....and it's also entirely what we deserve. I hardly think that any threats would be necessary....
Note to self....simply *must* start saving all my Hayden pics to CD....methinks that my hard drive can only hold so many, after all, and I've been goin' at it with all the pic-gathering for a good, long while already....don't see any signs of stopping, either. And of course....if I only had access to a good, high-quality colour printer....then, well, I'd probably *never* leave the house. Wall-and-ceiling-paper, anyone....? *tee hee*
Dawn.

 

Said topic has been taken off board, and won't be discussed on JC by me anyway..

I've just been in a very cranky mood lately due to some real life drama..so I'm a little more sensitive than usual to certain things..

 

I know exactly what you mean, IamZam, Qui-Dawn, and NamelessOne . I have been thinking about it a lot...there is NO WAY that we are going to feel the same way about the OT as we did when we were kids. I, for one, was in awe of the special effects back then, but what I loved the most was the story. And yes, back then those special effects were jaw-dropping because nothing like that had ever been done before. But in this day and age with all the effects we see now....well, we've just been desensitized to them. So it takes a lot to impress us now as far as that goes.

But as far as the story....well, that has just gotten better and better for me and for anyone that loved the story the most in the first place, I would imagine. Ever since I learned Vader was Luke's Father and Leia was Luke's sister, then saw the touching scene where Luke and Leia talk about their mother, it has ALWAYS BEEN MY DREAM that somehow we would be able to see this past story come to life. Oh, back then, at that moment, how I wished to just even see a picture of Anakin and their mother together!!! That picture in my mind that Leia created by the simple words she said about her real mother, looked like Padme...almost exactly. And so now...my dream has come true in a way that is better than I ever could have imagined!

I, for one, feel so priveledged to grow up with this story...to be a witness to it's evolution is something I will always treasure. We are living through history making here!! It's wonderful for those who are just coming into the story now or for those who will see it in it's entirety...one complete circle, but I love that I grew up with this story as it grew up...to see the ending before the beginning and all the surprizes that came along with it.

One day when we are older we will be able to say that we grew up with this story...this timeless mythology in an age that really needed one.

And congrats to GL!!! He deserves this award and so much more for making my dreams come true in AGFFA and for doing so much for the rest of the cinima world!! We love you!!

Arriss --Thanks. I know that it can get a little hectic in here, but thank you for reassuring me! (Love your name, hahah!)

p.s. In no way am I making a comment about the fans...I'm talking about the effects the saga had on me. But, on the other hand, aren't we the "Defenders"...don't we, therefore, have to "defend" the way that we think? JMO

 

*askance look* No one was "discussing" any other fans, as you will note. Neither was there even the slightest hint of trouble in anything that we were saying - nor could it possibly be construed as untoward or undesirable. No harm was meant, and no harm can possibly come of it.

You're wrong on multiple accounts. And this is not up for discussion, as the SWC administration's ruling on such matters are well known. I'm not "coming down" offically on anyone, because I do not know if any of these people post here. However, in either event, that line of conversation always leads in bad directions, so I am "recommending" a change of topic, so that we can avoid trouble.

IamZam, no hard feelings. I know how it is

AnakinsLuv, it's cool. You've nothing to worry about. Post on.

 

Oh, AnakinsLuv, baby, you know that I love you.... Everything you say is, of course, *absolutely*, bang-on, one-hundred-and-ten percent, positively and gloriously right....about *everything*....and it truly does hearten me up immensely, and I've gotta say that I find it incredibly invigorating and inspiring as well....to hear your perspective on things like this - because, you know, you *are* of course entirely right - and this is such a wonderful perspective to have on the whole Saga, too! Entirely delighting.... And what you were saying about Padme and Leia, too, and just how it would have been - you know, "if only" we could have seen them together, more than what we'll ultimately get, unfortunately....all that talk reminds me of what happened when I was watching the ANH DVD not too long ago - there was this one moment, when Leia was telling Luke, about Han, that he had to follow his own path....it just hit me how much Leia was like Shmi in that moment....

The entire Skywalker line just seems so strong, so crystal-clear vibrant at moments like that....one moment Leia can seem so much like her mother, obviously, but she also has those little flashes of Anakin's spirit, and that's such a real delight to see....how much she's physically like Padme, obviously, and in other ways too so much like her - but she has her father's personality, his spirit, so wonderfully strongly as well - and Luke, meanwhile, who looks so much like his father at times it's so amazing, so startling, and yet so totally *perfect*....and yet....in so many ways, he's even more like Padme.... *sighs happily* What a wonderful mingling of their parents they are, to be sure....but it's the entire Skywalker lineage as a whole that burns so strongly in them....and that, I see more and more as I watch the PT and OT, and it all comes together so seamlessly....finally, it all makes perfect sense, and there really is that feeling that everything belongs, at *long* last!

*hugs Zam* Don't fret, hon....you know that we've got your back here....nothin' to worry about, and nothing to apologize for either. 'Sides, you're in the very best of company here....so, of course....*totally* sympathize....truly!


Dawn.

 

The entire Skywalker line just seems so strong, so crystal-clear vibrant at moments like that....one moment Leia can seem so much like her mother, obviously, but she also has those little flashes of Anakin's spirit, and that's such a real delight to see....how much she's physically like Padme, obviously, and in other ways too so much like her - but she has her father's personality, his spirit, so wonderfully strongly as well - and Luke, meanwhile, who looks so much like his father at times it's so amazing, so startling, and yet so totally *perfect*....and yet....in so many ways, he's even more like Padme.... *sighs happily* What a wonderful mingling of their parents they are, to be sure....but it's the entire Skywalker lineage as a whole that burns so strongly in them....and that, I see more and more as I watch the PT and OT, and it all comes together so seamlessly....finally, it all makes perfect sense, and there really is that feeling that everything belongs, at *long* last!

Couldn't have said it better myself!! I've been noticing this more and more also...and oh, that part with Leia and Luke in ANH!! I hadn't noticed that yet...but you are, as always, sooooo right. She DOES totally embody Shmi there...it's scarey!! Gives, yet, new depth to that scene...wonderful!!!

With all those little details...you know George had to have put so much time and effort into getting those right. I mean, it's really as if Pernilla August gave birth to Hayden and he and Natalie might as well have produced Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher. It's really eerie at times even.... Well, there's also all the details and continuity with their character's personalities and behavior, like you said. It couldn't be more perfect!!


And, thanks...you always say the most wonderful things...

You are truly a woman after my own heart!! It is, as I have said before, so comforting to talk about this with others out there who think as I do... It's so different in my life outside this message board... when I say things like this mostly people just look at me like I'm some sort of freak or just a big nerd...

...I mean, I like all my friends and all, but most of them just don't "get it" when it comes to SW. They just don't take the time to really see it for what it is....I feel sorry for them...they are really missing out!!

 

Stacysatrip

I will check out "Beautiful Girls". I remember it when it came out and that's the role I thought she played in it. I do remember "Mars Attacks" and "Where the Heart Is" as you remembered them. I only have seen brief parts of "Anywhere But Here" and how you describe her role is how I remember it as well -- she was playing the "parent", but she seemed kinda dull in it too -- way too cynical in it, IMHO.


On the topic of the "teaser poster", I highly doubt that it's real. TFN doesn't get all the scoops concerning the PT, despite what Josh Griffin would like to believe.


Rhonderoo

I have a sneaking suspicion that the trailer will be on the release of "The Untouchables." I had to endure several viewings of "Monsters, Inc." in order to catch the breathing teaser trailer in '01.

...actually, it wasn't that bad.

IAMZAM

I've run into a few SW chicks at the Cons I've been too and every single one of them has been really nice and, as it appears to me, pretty cool SW fans. I don't go to their website, obviously, so I don't know their posts, but they all seemed very intelligent, heavily involved in fandom, and generally, really sweet.

Right now, they're heavily involved with generating revenue for breast cancer research, which is something that we all need to get behind.

But I understand where you are coming from also. Fandom is a crazy world. Almost as crazy as real life.

Stryphe

If it's general comments about general topics, like fandom, is it okay then? I understand what can happen when specific people or groups are targeted, but if we are having a thoughtful (goes with saying) conversation about aspects of the Saga, which would include general fan reactions, there shouldn't be anything wrong with that, right?


I just reminded myself about something:

Let me ask the question to all present at this wonderful board, because I just can't seem to get this out of head and I need answers!! LOL

Does anybody who has read Joseph Campbell heard anything about him reading Emerson or being influenced by Emerson at all?

I'm terribly interesting and really would like to know and I thought you rather intelligent fellows could help me out.

 

AnakinsLuv, the first time I wanted to hear about Luke and Leia's mother was the moment Vader told Luke he was his father.
I never considered that he might be just messing with Luke's head.
The moment he said who he was, my first thoughts were (apart from "wow" ) what sort of woman would he have fallen in love with, what sort of woman could have fallen in love with him, and what on earth made him change into this monster?

 

I'd have to say I was first interested in learning more about her when Leia was talking to Luke about her in RotJ. The line was short but it says a lot: "She was very beautiful. Kind, but sad." I actually think Luke has a lot of his mother's qualities, Especially after that scene particular scene where he confronts Vader on the Endor landing platform. I just see a lot of Padme in his face now.

 

Well, what's so great about it is the fact that Luke and Leia both are such a wonderful combination of both their parents....physically, emotionally, intrinsically in their personalities - some aspects are so strongly Padme, then others are so clearly born of Anakin's influence....you can really see that they *are* their parents' children, in every way. Heck, I myself look at it in that very singular perspective....I'll keep remarking to other people that, say, Luke is so much like his father - looks so much like Anakin, particularly in one scene or another, for instance....or I'll comment aloud, awestruck and wondering, at how much Leia truly is Padme's daughter, and how it really shows....and, yeah, there are some people who - for whatever odd reason - just can't see it that way, they don't get it....how it all really has come full circle....but I think that to view it in this unique perspective - to see once and for all the relation - well, now, how *else* is one gonna look at it? Honestly....


Dawn.

 

The_Nameless_One -- Wow!! I only wish I had thought about those things watching that scene...it would have given it so much more depth than it already had. Actually, it's been such a long time since I *first* saw that scene....I think I was like 6 or something...not old enough to comprehend it all, ya know? But once I was old enough to really think about it I do remember thinking, "Okay....there must be a mother involved here...long lost, of course, since she hasn't been mentioned yet. Where could she be now? Probably dead since she is linked to Vader...the %$#@*&^!!!!! And then I think I left it at that until the scene in ROTJ which, of course, lent so much more depth to the rest of the scenes that came before and after that one in the Saga.

waheennay -- I totally can see Padme in Luke in that scene now...I think there more than any other in the saga

Qui-Dawn --Yeah, no other way to view it, definitely!!

 

Edit--Never mind. I'd probably just get banned for "baiting" again.

 

I can't even remember when I first saw Empire or a New Hope - iw as born in 1975, so Star Wars, like the Force, has been with me, always
But I remember thinking for a long time after seeing Empire for the first time, and then coming to the idea that someone had killed Anakin's wife, and that was why he'd turned into Darth Vader, because he got so mad.
(Yoda's teachings about anger, fear and hate weren't lost on me )
I also reasoned that it wwa the Jedi that had killed his wife, which was why he had killed them all - I started to see Vader as not so much a part of the Empire, more as an individual who had fallen in with them as their goals had matched his own.

P-S: I do remember the release of Jedi in 83, although I didn't see it in the cinema.
I remember waiting in a long line outside a toystore to "meet Darth Vader" as part of the promotion of the film - we finally got inside, shook hands with a huge guy in vader suit, bought an action figure, and then left, very happy
And my little brother, who was only 3 at the time, kept on repeating over and over again, all the way home, "I shook hands with Darth Vader - Darth Vader shook hands with me"

P.P.S. He also, when he was a bit older, used to talk the whole time in his "Yoda voice", which was actually quite a good impression for a small kid - he even got into character so much that he cried, still in his Yoda voice, when a balloon of his burst

 

He also, when he was a bit older, used to talk the whole time in his "Yoda voice", which was actually quite a good impression for a small kid - he even got into character so much that he cried, still in his Yoda voice, when a balloon of his burst.

!!!! That is so cool!! Kids can do the funniest things!! I can just hear it now, "Popped, my balloon did...wahhh!!"

Yes, I was born in 1976 so like you, the force has been with me, always...as I'm sure is the case for most of us here However, I'm sure I didn't actually *see* ANH when I was a year old....probably more like 3 or 4 years, but you know, the force was all around for me to take in as a wee babe!!

Yes, I too remember thinking that it might have been someone killing his wife that made him turn to the dark side...the jedi or maybe even himself as a baddy, after he had turned from the good side.

-AnakinsLuv

 

*hugs and sympathizes with stacysatrip* Don't worry about it, hon....just take a page from the books of Anakin and Padme....follow their lead....goodness only knows that's what I certainly do! No shame at all in that....no harm, no foul, is what I say! *warm comforting huggles*


Dawn.

 

For you stacysatrip

Your last post just made me see something... well ummm...your signature just jumped off the page again at me... (In the light of all that's happened around here)

Nonetheless, you've just gotta love Andrew the fanboy from Buffy,... and Xander for making that comment...tee hee! Man, that's a good show!!! Joss Whedon is pure genius!! Right up there with Peter Jackson and THE MAN, GL!!!

 

*laughs* Oh, yeah, the Trio as a whole - Jonathan, Warren, and Andrew - they were quite hilarious in their sheer, wonderful geekdom....one remembers, for instance, how they thought they'd disguise their van for covert evil ops....by painting the Death Star on the side of it. Of course, it *was* the revised-plan Death Star they'd gone with.... *chuckles* Ahhh, yes, they weren't all bad....well, when they weren't being evil, that is.


Dawn.

 

Oh man....I had forgotten about that one!!! I do love how Andrew always manages to add a little comment or two about SW or LOTR. Did anyone see one of the last episodes of Angel where Andrew made a guest appearance? Oh my gosh!!! I was buckled over with laughter!!! He made so many hilarious little comments...something about Viggo Mortenson...and there was one about Yoda... (I need to watch that one again!!)

 

Well, Spike did say to Angel once, "You were my Yoda!"....that, I surely do recall. And then there was that scene where Andrew and Jonathan were duking it out with plastic lightsabers....*too* funny.... Methinks that Andrew could try to play it cool and all un-geek-like as he wishes....his true self always would emerge somehow....and it was always the most singularly hilarious thing!


Dawn.