Fanclub Return of the Tang: Mara Jade Skywalker Fan club

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by Jedi_Liz, Dec 27, 2002.

Moderators: Bardan_Jusik, Sinrebirth
  1. JediMara77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    Anyone else read Choices of One yet? *crickets*
  2. Hazel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2010
    star 4
    I'm on chapter 3 (the 1st Mara chapter) and so far I'm really into it. Too bad I don't have a lot of time on week days to just indulge in the pleasure of reading. Can't wait till the weekend, then I'll just gobble it up.
  3. Tarsier Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2005
    star 3
    I just started it.
  4. madman007 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2007
    star 4
    I'm a bit skeptical when it comes to a Star Wars novel through Del Rey. But this one does have:

    A) Mara Jade in her prime
    B) Timothy Zahn - defense rests!
    and
    C) Many, many great reviews saying that the original feel of Star Wars is back in this novel.

    I may just have to lift my own ban of Del Rey SW books for this exception.

    I was going to wait until my library has it, but that may be a long wait. Is it worth buying? Maybe I can get one used on Amazon or ebay?
  5. JediMara77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    I may just have to lift my own ban of Del Rey SW books for this exception.

    The way I see it is this: if Timothy Zahn is willing to still write Star Wars books, why should we not read them?

    Is it worth buying?

    YES.
  6. Jedi_Liz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 6
    I'm undecided on Choices of One......I have Allegiance, but haven't even READ it yet....

    And I want to read my ebooks of the two Thrawn Trilogy books I bought June 28th.

    I would rather get it from the library (as an ebook) but my stupid library probably wouldn't HAVE it as an ebook and anyway, I only have a Kindle, not a Nook. Kindle's don't have public library borrowing yet.

  7. Hazel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2010
    star 4
    Finished Choices of One yesterday :), now I have to see what I'll do with the bunnies that sprouted.
  8. JediMara77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    Oooh Hazel! What are your bunnies? My sequel idea to I, MJ spawned from CoO.


    What did you think of Mara in this book? I liked her better in this than in Allegiance, and really liked her interaction with the Hand of Judgment. She seemed a lot more "human" because of that. And then the scene at the end...I wanna hug her.

    And then there's all the stuff in the cave...happy sigh.
  9. Hazel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2010
    star 4
    My bunny is what if they actually talked after the cave. :D

    I LOVED Mara in the book, she is an awesome fighter, but so humane. I really loved that childhood memory of the falling-star dome. I really liked her in Allegiance but there she reminded me a lot of Nikita, the perfect secret agent, in CoO she was a little more vulnerable, as in lonely. I think meeting the Hand of Judgment in Allegiance showed Mara what might be like to have friends.

    Do we still have to black-out stuff?
  10. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Hazel - LOVED Mara in the book, she is an awesome fighter, but so humane. I really loved that childhood memory of the falling-star dome. I really liked her in Allegiance but there she reminded me a lot of Nikita, the perfect secret agent, in CoO she was a little more vulnerable, as in lonely. I think meeting the Hand of Judgment in Allegiance showed Mara what might be like to have friends.

    Mara has always reminded me too of Nikita. But then, Luc Besson's: La Femme Nikita came in 1990, only one year before HttE. ;)

    I don't know if I'd call Mara humane here, though. I mean, I know she is, because I know what she will become later, but that in mind, I find her strikingly machinelike. She's so brainwashed that she sighes in exasparation when a man sentenced to death panics and her staunch belief in herself as infallible, gracious justice is terrifying. I though I could see quite a lot irony when Zahn lets her sigh from her believed moral high ground (when she hears another governor as committed treason): "Didn't these high-ranking politicians ever learn?" Also, when she smiles at the Empperor's warning that her next mission won't be easy: "Mara had to smile at that one. Of course it wouldn't be easy. Easy task would be give to the military, or the heavy-handed thugs of the Imperial Security Bureau, or even Lord Vader and the Executor's massive firepower. The hard jobs, the subtle jobs - those were reserved for the Emperor's Hand." It's like, in her mind, she and the Emperor have their own private club, their jokes confirming how superior they are to almost everyone else. But all of that was completely in character of course, and very interesting. I wouldn't have minded more of that at all. And of course, I would have loved to see her wave - just an inch...o_O

    And fortunately, there is another Mara peaking through too. I agree that her wish to work with HoJis a sighn of exactly that. Also, the scene at the end that Nanci mentionned, where Mara realizes she misses them was awesome - my fav part of the book by far. I must admit I'd liked more of these small breeches, where her emotions pops up - that's where Mara becomes truly interesting to me.

    As for her fighting abilities, they're nice to witness, but we already knew she was good. She had to be, in order to be the Emperor's Hand. Actually, I was a bit disappointed that she used the Force so much as she did, as well as her lightsaber.

    What strikes me most, though, is how rational she is all the time. There's nothing of the fire we saw in TTT, THT even. True, many later authors have written her as pure temper - but in mind she always was both...[face_worried]
  11. Hazel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2010
    star 4
    Humane was probably the wrong word for this, but I mean that Mara felt a little less 'stiff' (again probably not the right word) compared to Allegiance. In her interactions with HoJ, it seems to me that she cares about them, even though they are deserters, also when she found out that there was a possibility Ferrouz had been framed, she immediately jumped on it and did everything to help him and get his family back. Even in the end of the cave sequence, she made it a point to tell LaRone to tell Luke to get out of there.


    She's so brainwashed that she sighes in exasparation when a man sentenced to death panics and her staunch belief in herself as infallible, gracious justice is terrifying.

    She is completely brainwashed by the Emperor, but in this I see her point. The rules are clear, if someone breaks them they get punished. And invariably the guilty parties always pull some kind of stunt to try to avoid their fate, whether it's a plea or a rant or a panic attack. After watching a dozen of these, the one enforcing the rules tends to get less very annoyed at them. At least she does everything she can to make sure of their guilt before passing judgment.


    It's like, in her mind, she and the Emperor have their own private club, their jokes confirming how superior they are to almost everyone else.

    This is just another proof of the Emperor's manipulation. Make her feel special and unique, when we know (and she finds out later) that the Emperor had more than an octopus as arms. :p

    As for her fighting abilities, they're nice to witness, but we already knew she was good. She had to be, in order to be the Emperor's Hand. Actually, I was a bit disappointed that she used the Force so much as she did, as well as her lightsaber.


    I was mostly surprised at this. I had no idea she was so proficient at it. All the subsequent books (in the timeline) really had me fooled. o_O
    But I really liked that scene in the cave where she flipped the lightsaber on and off as to not cut through the supports. I was very cool.

    What strikes me most, though, is how rational she is all the time. There's nothing of the fire we saw in TTT, THT even. True, many later authors have written her as pure temper - but in mind she always was both...

    I think that might have come from her certainty that she was doing the right thing (even though she was misled). It's funny, but Mara's temper, as you describe it here, seems to me more like the one of a Jedi than ever. It's like she never gave in to the dark side because she never gave in to stronger potentially negative emotions. I think Obi-Wan and Yoda would have approved. :p
  12. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Hazel Humane was probably the wrong word for this, but I mean that Mara felt a little less 'stiff' (again probably not the right word) compared to Allegiance. In her interactions with HoJ, it seems to me that she cares about them, even though they are deserters, also when she found out that there was a possibility Ferrouz had been framed, she immediately jumped on it and did everything to help him and get his family back. Even in the end of the cave sequence, she made it a point to tell LaRone to tell Luke to get out of there.
    Yeah, I see your point. Her actions reveal that she's cleatly approved on them and trusts them, even feels a kind of kinship. That was actually the best part of her storyline IMO. It's also very clear that Mara is taught not to follow rules to the letter but to look at the idea behind - which is a very symphatetic trait.

    She is completely brainwashed by the Emperor, but in this I see her point. The rules are clear, if someone breaks them they get punished. And invariably the guilty parties always pull some kind of stunt to try to avoid their fate, whether it's a plea or a rant or a panic attack. After watching a dozen of these, the one enforcing the rules tends to get less very annoyed at them. At least she does everything she can to make sure of their guilt before passing judgment.
    True, and I see her point too - but the situation is still starngely macabre - especially if you add the twist that she will one day look back on it all and start to wonder whether all the judgements she passed were rightful. :( Exactly her huge self-confidence makes my heart bleed for her.


    Kataja -It's like, in her mind, she and the Emperor have their own private club, their jokes confirming how superior they are to almost everyone else.

    This is just another proof of the Emperor's manipulation. Make her feel special and unique, when we know (and she finds out later) that the Emperor had more than an octopus as arms
    .
    Exactly. And I'd wished to dig a bit deeper into that. Heh heh - more hands than an octopus has arms - loved that pic! [face_peace]

    kataja - What strikes me most, though, is how rational she is all the time. There's nothing of the fire we saw in TTT, THT even. True, many later authors have written her as pure temper - but in mind she always was both...

    I think that might have come from her certainty that she was doing the right thing (even though she was misled). It's funny, but Mara's temper, as you describe it here, seems to me more like the one of a Jedi than ever. It's like she never gave in to the dark side because she never gave in to stronger potentially negative emotions. I think Obi-Wan and Yoda would have approved
    .
    Probably. It's funny, that was exactly what i thought about when Luke gave the explanation why she hadn't fallen to the Dark Side in VOTF; that she's actually been the perfect Jedi - in complete control. And I've always seen Mara as a very controlled person when it came to battle - but I miss the spark when it's not battle...*sighs whistfully* After all, it would not have been like her personality changed just because Palpatie died...

    But Mara's balance between rationality and temper always was an intrigate one. Most EU has never understood the first side of her - in contrast, nowadays I think Zahn makes almost a too big number of emphasizing it... probably to prove that point. And I don't blame him for that - I just look forward to getting that balance... o_O

    Anyway, my definite fav of the Mara arch was her interaction with HoJ. And I really think I see some threads thrown out for a much later meeting; both the luck coin Brightwater unvoluntarily gave Luke and that feeling of kinship opens up for fun possibilities - or fanfiction bunnies ;)

    What did you people think this book made of the idea of Luke & Mara completing each other as characters. Did it add to it - weaken it - or neither?
  13. Hazel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2010
    star 4
    kataja:

    True, and I see her point too - but the situation is still starngely macabre - especially if you add the twist that she will one day look back on it all and start to wonder whether all the judgements she passed were rightful. :( Exactly her huge self-confidence makes my heart bleed for her.

    I think that's because, at this timeframe, she was acting on the assumption that she on the side of Right and later, when she finds out her assumption was wrong, she begins to question everything than was built upon that assumption. I think this is something Luke can help her with.
    And, btw, my viggie this week revolves around this subject. It is already written and edited and it's a funny coincidence that we're talking about this now. [face_laugh]


    Exactly. And I'd wished to dig a bit deeper into that.

    Let's dig. :D Personally, I would have loved to get a good example, in canon, of Palpy training Mara. Maybe a short story. The part in By the Emperor's Hand is just not enough.


    Probably. It's funny, that was exactly what i thought about when Luke gave the explanation why she hadn't fallen to the Dark Side in VOTF; that she's actually been the perfect Jedi - in complete control. And I've always seen Mara as a very controlled person when it came to battle - but I miss the spark when it's not battle...*sighs whistfully* After all, it would not have been like her personality changed just because Palpatie died...

    But Mara's balance between rationality and temper always was an intrigate one. Most EU has never understood the first side of her - in contrast, nowadays I think Zahn makes almost a too big number of emphasizing it... probably to prove that point. And I don't blame him for that - I just look forward to getting that balance... o_O


    It just hit me that controlled!Mara is like a person at work. A lot of people are two people, one while at work and a different one at home. At work you have to control your temper, not say everything that pops into your head, keep your desk clean. At home you can relax; my home desk is a mess.
    And Mara, before Endor, probably prided herself in always being professional. Only after the Empire crumbled did she loosen up. And I'd add that every glimpse we have of Mara before Endor, she is on the job, we don't get to see her interact with people during her leisure time, she could be all sparks then.


    Anyway, my definite fav of the Mara arch was her interaction with HoJ. And I really think I see some threads thrown out for a much later meeting; both the luck coin Brightwater unvoluntarily gave Luke and that feeling of kinship opens up for fun possibilities - or fanfiction bunnies ;)


    I'm sure that was Zahn's intention. I hope he can deliver something along those lines. He could fit them in that Skywalker family book. [face_thinking]


    What did you people think this book made of the idea of Luke & Mara completing each other as characters. Did it add to it - weaken it - or neither?


    They were working together, although not as well as they would later. But I don't think it added much too it.
    I squeed a little when Luke was so fascinated by watching Mara with her lightsaber, but as to the future, that was it.
    It would have been fun if they had actually talked, although I know that wasn't possible (btw, that bunny will not stop hopping in my head), but as it was their interaction was just a bare minimum.
  14. JediMara77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    It's also very interesting because that is not what the rest of the Empire is like. And that is what eventually gets Mara to realize the truth about Palpatine. (Which is why he only sends her to do certain jobs and shelters her from the realities of the Empire.)

    See, I actually always had the idea that Mara was a completely different person before the Emperor's death. We see many traits that she has afterwards, like her loyalty, a little bit of sarcasm, and her impatience with incompetence. There were a few parts in Allegiance and Choices of One where there was a bit of foreshadowing of that really fiery woman she becomes - for example, when she's with the judge and Ferrouz. But even before this book, I always had the idea that Mara's personality could be split into before Palpatine and after Palpatine.

    It just emphasized how well they work together, even when they really can't work together. I like that Zahn didn't get overly romantic with the foreshadowing, knowing what was going to happen - that wouldn't have been realistic. But, like Hazel, I did squee a few times during those scenes, just because you know what's eventually going to happen.
  15. JediMara77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    This is what I made for Dragon*Con:

    [image=http://a.yfrog.com/img614/751/5mcxh.jpg]

    [image=http://a.yfrog.com/img735/1234/m12wn.jpg]

    Iverna did the front logo for me, I made the stencil and painted it. Yay!
  16. madman007 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2007
    star 4
    Been wanting to record this ever since I found it. The following is a sketch from Robot Chicken's Star Wars III but it was one that didn't make full production. It presents a rather different view of Mara Jade's role in the Empire. Funny how it's the only reference of Jade in the entire RC Star Wars trilogy.

    Robot Chicken Mara Jade sketch


    Wonder if what they said in the beginning is true about Lucas not liking the character of Jade.

    BTW, I was given a copy of Magna Studio with a graphics pad and I intend to play around with drawing up Mara (with color!). So if anyone can think up a sketch like this just PM me about it and I can see what I can come up with.

  17. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Hazel - It just hit me that controlled!Mara is like a person at work. A lot of people are two people, one while at work and a different one at home. At work you have to control your temper, not say everything that pops into your head, keep your desk clean. At home you can relax; my home desk is a mess.
    And Mara, before Endor, probably prided herself in always being professional. Only after the Empire crumbled did she loosen up. And I'd add that every glimpse we have of Mara before Endor, she is on the job, we don't get to see her interact with people during her leisure time, she could be all sparks then
    .

    Which makes pre-Endor Mara a workoholic???;) :p


    It would have been fun if they had actually talked, although I know that wasn't possible (btw, that bunny will not stop hopping in my head)
    Write, write!!! :D I wrote a story where they did much more than talked (nutch nutch) but it can never be posted here. (See Their First Meeting on my homepage if interested)


    JediMara77
    - It's also very interesting because that is not what the rest of the Empire is like. And that is what eventually gets Mara to realize the truth about Palpatine. (Which is why he only sends her to do certain jobs and shelters her from the realities of the Empire.)
    I agree. And still she does meet people of high morals, like General Deerian in Allegiance. There must have been a number of them for her to become what she did ? but Palpatine would have made sure they never stayed, in order to keep himself the only constant in Mara?s life.


    See, I actually always had the idea that Mara was a completely different person before the Emperor's death. We see many traits that she has afterwards, like her loyalty, a little bit of sarcasm, and her impatience with incompetence. There were a few parts in Allegiance and Choices of One where there was a bit of foreshadowing of that really fiery woman she becomes - for example, when she's with the judge and Ferrouz. But even before this book, I always had the idea that Mara's personality could be split into before Palpatine and after Palpatine.
    Thant's an interesting idea... Not sure I buy it though, unless we mean different things with "different personality". People can change - but it's not like stuff pop up from nowhere. And she's very rational and controlled in Survivor's Quest too, understated almost...

    But if you mean that sides of her that she never allowed to come up before, do come out after Palp's death, then I agree. And I've always enjoyed the idea that Luke would bring up sides of her that she never thought possible - that thing in him infuriating her even more. After all, Mara's very controlled about her hate towards Luke in HTTE - only Karrde's managed to see through her.


    This is what I made for Dragon*Con:
    [face_peace]


    Madman - that was hilarious! Thanks for sharing!!!

    Wonder if what they said in the beginning is true about Lucas not liking the character of Jade.
    Could explain a lot, couldn't it? [face_thinking] I think I buy that one, well knowing we'll probably never know for sure. But if George's original idea was for Luke to wander off becoming a hermit, then any wife woudn't really fit, would she?
  18. Hazel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2010
    star 4
    kataja:

    Which makes pre-Endor Mara a workoholic???

    Yeah, I guess. [face_laugh] It's more like she defines herself by her work.

    I wrote a story where they did much more than talked (nutch nutch) but it can never be posted here. (See Their First Meeting on my homepage if interested)

    Just read it :D. Hehehehe! You should do a follow up on it. That part where Luke goes Not Ben now! just cracked me up.


    JediMara:

    Very :cool: t-shirts!

    Which is why he only sends her to do certain jobs and shelters her from the realities of the Empire.

    It would be interesting to analyze why Palpatine would do this. Why would he care that Mara only saw the 'light' side of the Empire. Why did he protect her from the ugliness? Doe he care or would that fall outside the the parameters of the experiment?


    madman:

    [face_laugh]

    Wonder if what they said in the beginning is true about Lucas not liking the character of Jade.

    That definitely explains a lot.
  19. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Hazel - Glad you liked! :D

    JM: Which is why he only sends her to do certain jobs and shelters her from the realities of the Empire.

    H: It would be interesting to analyze why Palpatine would do this. Why would he care that Mara only saw the 'light' side of the Empire. Why did he protect her from the ugliness? Doe he care or would that fall outside the the parameters of the experiment
    ?

    I think "the experiment" Mara consituted was that she had those high ethics - and still was completely devoted to him. He wanted all the benefits of her moral high ground - the backside of that would be that he needed to prevent her seeing too much ugliness that cast back on himself.

  20. Hazel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2010
    star 4
    That's what I was thinking too.

    But could it be that Palpatine sought some kind of validation for himself and his government from this 'experiment'?
  21. Hazel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2010
    star 4
    And I did! :D You or anyone who's interested can check it out on the Saga Board. It's called Crossing Paths (path in sig) and it was supposed to be a one-post, but since the bunny hasn't quit yet, it just might be developed further.
  22. NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 4
    I don't know if I'd call Mara humane here, though. I mean, I know she is, because I know what she will become later, but that in mind, I find her strikingly machinelike. She's so brainwashed that she sighes in exasparation when a man sentenced to death panics and her staunch belief in herself as infallible, gracious justice is terrifying. I though I could see quite a lot irony when Zahn lets her sigh from her believed moral high ground (when she hears another governor as committed treason): "Didn't these high-ranking politicians ever learn?" Also, when she smiles at the Empperor's warning that her next mission won't be easy: "Mara had to smile at that one. Of course it wouldn't be easy. Easy task would be give to the military, or the heavy-handed thugs of the Imperial Security Bureau, or even Lord Vader and the Executor's massive firepower. The hard jobs, the subtle jobs - those were reserved for the Emperor's Hand." It's like, in her mind, she and the Emperor have their own private club, their jokes confirming how superior they are to almost everyone else. But all of that was completely in character of course, and very interesting. I wouldn't have minded more of that at all. And of course, I would have loved to see her wave - just an inch...

    These are the things I loathe about Mara. Flattery, it is said, works all too well on the gullible, and the vain and arrogant, and she's both. It's ersp. amusing how she later on in life scoffs at and frowns upon other Imperials like Darth vader for being fans of Palpatine when she had her little pompom squad of one. She's such a hypocrite that way. i guess it's her way of coping with being a killer. She was a trained product but she should attempt to have some empahty for others. Others see it as "cute" later on, but I never did. Her all knowing attitude is what got her killed in the end (I hated Sacrifice, because I know she was written OOC) the thought that she knows best and everyone else needs to get real. There's nothing wrong with confidence but she does have a blind spot in this area.
  23. madman007 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2007
    star 4
    Arrrghh!

    I just ordered a relatively cheap copy of Choices Of One off ebay last week! I'll be reading it so I can see what you all are saying about it under all that black!

    Can't wait!
  24. JediMara77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    I didn't get the entire comment, but this is Zahn talking about the creation of Mara Jade at Dragon*Con this weekend. Someone had asked how Mara's character came about. He said he wanted to bridge the gap betweeen ESB and RotJ. At the end of ESB you have Vader offering to kill the Emperor with Luke, then at the beginning of RotJ Vader is still faithfully serving the Emperor. That was where Zahn got the idea of Palpatine sending an agent to kill Luke at Jabba's, and of course the agent would have to be skilled in certain areas, so the idea of the Emperor's Hand came into being.

    The end is the best part. :D

    http://yfrog.com/jmu1mnz

  25. madman007 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2007
    star 4
    "I'm not bitter." o_O

    Yeeeeah.....riiiight!
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