Fanclub Return of the Tang: Mara Jade Skywalker Fan club

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by Jedi_Liz, Dec 27, 2002.

Moderators: Bardan_Jusik, Sinrebirth
  1. NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 4
    I am.

    It was stupid, just like the whole pointless series.

    In my world, TUF was the end and the gang are all out there. BEN has lots of friends at the Academy where he belongs with his own Master. Mara is their Senate representative and advisor. And Luke is the Jedi Master and and Leia is a real Jedi that rivals "The Negotiator". Han and Talon and Lando still hang at the bar, being impossible. Jacen is a teacher of the younglings and Jaina is a teacher of the martial arts, and piloting, and comm devices.

    And the Yuuzhun Vong are a quickly fading nightmare. Never to be seen again after Sekot returns with them to their own galaxy.

    Now isn't that better?
  2. madman007 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2007
    star 4
    I found this black and white outline for this image of Mara Jade courtesy of Serena Kenobi. I followed the sketch and colorized it in Photoshop. What do you think? I tried to get a glowing effect for the lightsaber and went to Filter>Render>Lighting Effects. Still doesn't look right. Any suggestions?

    When I have some time, I want to see what I can do in Manga Studio with panels and dialogue. To be continued...

    [image=http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh164/Mad_Andrew/Star%20Wars/Mara_Jade_by_Madman007.jpg]
  3. NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 4
    Move her mouth up, shorten the nose. When people are "snarling", things pull back, esp cheeks, making the chin longer.
  4. Mazzic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2000
    star 4
    Just a heads up, I posted all the exclusive Jade Crusades 2.0 interviews on a blog: Jade Crusades 3.0. While this regrettably is not an attempt to resurrect Jade Crusades, I thought the interviews from our original site really should be available online. I hope you all agree!

    -Mazzic
  5. JediMara77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    TZ Actually, I've probably got ideas in all three eras. I've got a story proposed that will take place after the comic, after the Emperor's death and she's on her own. And Mike and I have been kicking around a four-part story that picks up between Visions of the Future and the New Jedi Order. Luke, Mara, Corran, and Mirax go off on a little vacation together.

    MS (laughing) Actually, Mara and Mirax go off on a vacation together and Luke and Corran have to pick up the pieces. (laughing) "They did what to a planet?!"


    [face_laugh] Okay, I DID NOT read this before starting my diary. But LOL X 10.

    It's fun reading those old interviews.

    Also, for those of you who want to see Stackpole return, there's a petition going around. There's a link to it on EUCantina.
  6. Hazel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2010
    star 4
    Awesome interviews!

    Thanks, Mazzic :D
  7. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Mazzic - that was a brilliant! Stuff like that really should be availble! Thanks![face_dancing] [:D]

    I read the author interviews and they were incerdibly interesting! Particularly Salvatore's and Kevin J Andersons since I hadn't really expected them to be ;) I really think Salavatopre had some great points on how Mara's illness could have been used - and liked his humble statement that he might have developed things differently could he do it in hindsight.

    Also KJA was interesting - that he saw L&M coming up - but Zahn denied it!?!? That was surprising indeed! Still, I've read that TZ developed Mara so she could be a balance to Luke - so he must have had their pairing in mind early on - then why deny it? Some misunderstandment?:confused:



    The artist interviews - I suppose it wouldn't be possible to add the pics the different artist have made? It would be a great thing for us picture dummies as it would make the talk more concrete - but I suspect there might be some copyright issue...or?

    BTW - I absolutely adore Mara on the logo! She's spot on! Classic and deadly! And somehow she looks petite too!
  8. Tarsier Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2005
    star 3
    I finally finished Choices of One. A little late for the discussion, I know. But did anyone else get the feeling throughout the book that Zahn was trying to subtly (or not so subtly) suggest that Mara would very easily kick Luke's butt if they got in a fight? Maybe it was just me, imagining Zahn trying to make up for the fact that Mara will spend a significant portion of her life playing second fiddle to Luke.... Anyway the whole book seemed odd to me. Not bad really, but definitely not one of my favorites.
  9. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Tarsier - I finally finished Choices of One. A little late for the discussion, I know. But did anyone else get the feeling throughout the book that Zahn was trying to subtly (or not so subtly) suggest that Mara would very easily kick Luke's butt if they got in a fight? Maybe it was just me, imagining Zahn trying to make up for the fact that Mara will spend a significant portion of her life playing second fiddle to Luke.... Anyway the whole book seemed odd to me. Not bad really, but definitely not one of my favorites.

    Not so subtly, I'd say. ;) And I really thought the point is ok - there's no doubt Mara already was at her peak while Luke still has a veeeeery long way to go... But yeah, I too, thought there was something odd in this book, something that made me very sad and frustrated, and when I've been trying to pinpoint it down I always come back to Luke's characterization. There was loads of insecurity and no spark IMO... And yeah, maybe I got the same feeling as you, though I dismiss it rationally...

    I'm trying my best to forget them in this book 'cos it actually made me rethink their relationship...:(
  10. JediMara77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    It doesn't bother me, because Mara at this time period is supposed to be infallible. She's the Emperor's Hand, and it wouldn't be realistic for her to be making mistakes all the time. There has to be a reason that Palpatine put her in that position.

    But even if Zahn "elevates" her, so to speak, he doesn't shy away from the fact that she's completely brainwashed as to the Emperor's true nature. She has her moments of questioning, like with Governor Ferrouz, but in the end she will always do what is right for the Emperor and the Empire.

    And I think it adds to her overall character, finally getting to see her as the Emperor's Hand. It adds much more depth now that I'm reading her in HttE, remembering what she was like. You often wonder how can someone actually miss the Empire, but now it's very easy to see why she would.
  11. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    JediMara - It doesn't bother me, because Mara at this time period is supposed to be infallible. She's the Emperor's Hand, and it wouldn't be realistic for her to be making mistakes all the time. There has to be a reason that Palpatine put her in that position.
    Point [face_thinking]

    But even if Zahn "elevates" her, so to speak, he doesn't shy away from the fact that she's completely brainwashed as to the Emperor's true nature.
    Another good point. That's what I enjoyed the most in the book. I even wish Zahn had expanded on that - daring to dive a bit deeper into the interesting moral issues we could have here... Thus aspect of her is much mroe interestig than her infallibility

    And I think it adds to her overall character, finally getting to see her as the Emperor's Hand. It adds much more depth now that I'm reading her in HttE, remembering what she was like. .
    True too... Still, I miss the fire we get later on... And I keep thinking it's gotta be there somehwere, even before Palpatine's death.

    You often wonder how can someone actually miss the Empire, but now it's very easy to see why she would
    I think Zahn made a good job from the start to show it. Also, introducing characters like Pelleaon and the Hand of Judgement guys have been working on the same; showing the benefits of the Empire. It could be interesting of we'd be shown the temptations of the Empire too; the glory, the power... And though Mara was content to work in the shadows, not wanting those thigns for herself somthing of it must still have rubbed off on her too...[face_thinking] (One of the things I love most about blanks AU trilogy is that he dares go down that road...)
  12. Tarsier Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2005
    star 3
    I've been thinking about Choices a lot since my last post, and the more I think about it, the less impressed I am with it.

    It didn't bother me that Mara was more powerful than Luke, but I thought she was way over the top. Kinda sad that she peaked at 17 (or however old she was). The part where she was turning on and off her lightsaber while running and blocking blaster shots - that took crazy skill. Like training hours every day with her lightsaber kind of skill. It bugged me how much she used the Force and her lightsaber in Allegiance, and this took that even farther. But what is really unbelievable to me is just how quickly her skills evaporate. If your lightsaber is your primary weapon and you lose it, shouldn't try to get a new one? Find one on the black market or build your own? But in the Thrawn trilogy she's not at all interested in having her own lightsaber again until Luke gives her his. She seems to have very limited Force skill throughout the New Republic era (which is fine with me because she has plenty of other skills, but now I'm not sure where she got those skills if she spent all her time training in the Force). Then there's a scene in HoT where she and Luke are throwing their lightsabers across a room and then using the Force to hold them steady. Seems like a pretty simple trick, but Mara is barely able to do it. So twenty years of age and maturity and she goes from lightsaber master to barely adequate at a simple task? Some of that's attributable to lack of practice and her lost connection to Palpatine, but it just seems like too much to me.

    Then there's Luke. As I was reading the book, I thought Luke seemed odd. At first I thought it was just the era - I'm no expert on the OT and maybe it was just strange to see him less powerful. But usually I like the less physically strong characters, so it seemed like I should find that endearing on Luke, but instead it was just plain weird. As I thought more about ANH, it occurred to me Luke wasn?t just not very powerful, he was totally out of character in Choices. In ANH, Luke is a whiny, hotheaded, rebellious teenager. In Choices he is levelheaded, mature and perfectly willing to take orders from his superiors without question. He absolutely knows his limits and doesn't push them too far. This is the kid that just single-handedly blew up the Death Star and has been told he's the last Jedi in existence. But he's perfectly happy to sit on the sidelines and let the professionals do the work?


    JediMara - But even if Zahn "elevates" her, so to speak, he doesn't shy away from the fact that she's completely brainwashed as to the Emperor's true nature. She has her moments of questioning, like with Governor Ferrouz, but in the end she will always do what is right for the Emperor and the Empire.
    I'm actually going to disagree because I think Zahn is doing something more subtle. The question is: would Mara serve the Empire if it is clear that doing so goes against her innate sense of justice? I think the answer is no, because she didn't turn in HoJ. She doesn't because she's afraid they won't get a fair trial, even though they've clearly committed the crime of deserting, if not murder. I think Palpatine is walking a fine line with her - he's allowed her to develop a sense of justice and righteousness which fully commits her to the job, but she's also free-thinking enough that if she gets wind of all he's up to she could turn against him. I guess my point is, she's clearly being manipulated, but I'm not sure I'd say she's being brainwashed.
  13. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Tarsier - Then there's Luke. As I was reading the book, I thought Luke seemed odd. At first I thought it was just the era - I'm no expert on the OT and maybe it was just strange to see him less powerful. But usually I like the less physically strong characters, so it seemed like I should find that endearing on Luke, but instead it was just plain weird. As I thought more about ANH, it occurred to me Luke wasn?t just not very powerful, he was totally out of character in Choices. In ANH, Luke is a whiny, hotheaded, rebellious teenager. In Choices he is levelheaded, mature and perfectly willing to take orders from his superiors without question. He absolutely knows his limits and doesn't push them too far. This is the kid that just single-handedly blew up the Death Star and has been told he's the last Jedi in existence. But he's perfectly happy to sit on the sidelines and let the professionals do the work?
    You're voicing my problems with his characterization exactly!!! Although I didn't take it as 'odd' but got really upset. He just struck me as so wrong; almost as the essence of Luke in ANH was lost.

    As for Mara, yes, I too think she's portrayed too Jedi-skilled in CoO. (Both Luke & Mara are so Jedi/Force fokused - why? - Mara for one should have other sklls -and Luke should hardly be 'awake' yet). And while it makes for an interesting contrast between them, it's just to much retconning for me to be able to accept it like that.
  14. NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 4
    This is why I don't like Zahn's work. He seems to loathe SW and just wants to rewrite it so suit his fanboyism. I really liked Mara after the NJO, before that I hated her because she's basically purely selfish and that's okay. She IS a darksider, and is also lying if she thinks landing on crowds of protesters like Tarkin did was okay in any capacity. Lying to herself, but I think that's what she does. By the time of DNT her eyes are wide open to her evil past and how it affected people. She gets it... No one is perfect.

    But Luke is constantly downgraded and put down by Zahn. I just don't understand it.

    Luke is there, always winning and triumphing, because he HAS to, because the FORCE made it so. The Force is always on Luke's side. The Force got rid of Palpatine through the Skywalker line. It was their destiny. Zahn doesn't get that.
  15. JediMara77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    Zahn hating Star Wars? That must be why he continuously comes back to the universe, even after they killed his "pet" character. Yup. Sounds logical to me.



    Anyway, I came across an annotation in Chapter 22 that I found really interesting, especially after all the talk about Mara using a lightsaber too much in Allegiance and Choices of One. This comes after the line Without the Force to call on, he would be an easy target, even for someone like her who hadn't picked up a lightsaber more than a handful of times in her life.

    Personally, I go with Zahn's second supposition. Makes more sense considering what happens to Mara's character after the events of By the Emperor's Hand.


  16. Tarsier Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2005
    star 3
    JediMara77 Well, that's really annoying. Apparently I've based my entire understanding of Mara's pre-smuggler past on a typo or poorly written sarcasm. I don't recall Mara doing anything significant with a lightsaber in TTT, but I will admit to having a terribly memory so maybe she does. Still doesn't explain why she doesn't have a lightsaber of her own at that time though.
  17. JediMara77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    She shows a good grasp of lightsaber skills when they're on Wayland. And she kills both the clone Luuke and C'baoth.

    Still doesn't explain why she doesn't have a lightsaber of her own at that time though.

    She lost her old magenta blade in a duel with Lumiya, according to the Essential Guides. After that time, I don't see her as wanting to build another lightsaber. That part of her life is done with, judging by the way she has such a hard time accepting the Force in later novels.
  18. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Interesting...[face_thinking] Not that I'd call it a typo - I'd say a retcon if ever there was one. It's of course fair enough taht Zahn can't remember all he wrote twenty years ago and it's probably ok too that he now in retrospect thinks some of it was wrong. What's interesting to me, is when he's changed his idea of Mara's lightsaber aptitude. I don't think that Mara in HOT shows any impressive lightsaber skills - even if you don't count in the levitation scene (that striktly speaking was levitation - not lightsaber)she's at least as fond of her blaster.


    JediMara - you suggested some time ago that Mara changed after Palpatine's death, and I've been thinking about it - but I can't agree: Mara in Handsoff is so very alike who she is in Allegiance and CoO - and it takes place after Endor. And your quote above increases my impression that Zahn's idea of the characters has been changing over the past many years. His Mara from TTT is not the same character as she is now - and it has nothing to do with the GFFA timeline - she's simply changed in his mind... And Luke has changed too...[face_thinking]

    And I think I liked the 'old' characters better.:(

    But maybe they change back? Maybe the simple thing is that character continuity isn't Zahn's forte? That would explain a lot - and I could cut down my level of expectation...[face_plain]


    Nelani'sGhost - I don't think Zahn hates SW - I don't think anyone who writes this stuff does! And he still writes so much of it so awesomely that he has to enjoy it! (Ok, that's not a rational argument but...:p ) Still, I see what annoys you. Who knows. Maybe that's why Del Ray cut back on Zahn for some years? But fans wanted him back *shrugs*

    As for Mara - her lies is part of what I love her for.[face_love] She's such a wonderful, complex character! And yes, by the end of NJO she'd see things in a new light; it would have been a long, hard road - but I think she made it!
  19. JediMara77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    By the time of HoT, though, she's blatantly rejecting the Jedi at every opportunity. I would imagine that would lead her to look down on the "Jedi weapon." Especially considering hers was a gift from Luke, and she's not that happy with him....



    It's definitely not unreasonable to think that Zahn's opinions about the characters have changed over the years. I know that mine have!

    When does Handoff take place? I think the five years between RotJ and HttE were very altering for Mara. She had to learn to be her own person for the first time in her life. And I'm imagine that hearing about the New Republic forming, and all these great things about Skywalker, would get to her after awhile.

    Also, she's a lot younger in Allegiance and CoO. I dunno, I just don't feel as jarred as some other people about her character. Maybe it's just because I like her so much, lol. And as for Luke, well, we'll continue to agree to disagree. :) For me, CoO was such a breath of fresh air after FotJ (which I generally enjoy, I just miss our heroes when they were young). And I just can't quibble about Zahn when I'm reading HttE. I always forget how fabulous this book is, until I read it again.

    But I will ask him that question for you!
  20. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    JediMara - By the time of HoT, though, she's blatantly rejecting the Jedi at every opportunity. I would imagine that would lead her to look down on the "Jedi weapon." Especially considering hers was a gift from Luke, and she's not that happy with him....
    Hmm, that last part, that she's not happy with him, is something I have an understadning problem with too. Not that I can't see the why's - it's the when's and details I wonder about.[face_mischief] But maybe we get it retconned too ;)


    When does Handoff take place? I think the five years between RotJ and HttE were very altering for Mara. She had to learn to be her own person for the first time in her life. And I'm imagine that hearing about the New Republic forming, and all these great things about Skywalker, would get to her after awhile.
    It take place right after ROTJ, 4 ABY. Sh'es very cool and measured there too, just like in the MJBTEH comic. You make a good point, still, I start to wonder when did she become angry and temperamental?

    And I still think it's avery weird question to ask - I mean - this is Mara!?!?[face_hypnotized]

    Also, she's a lot younger in Allegiance and CoO. I dunno, I just don't feel as jarred as some other people about her character. Maybe it's just because I like her so much, lol.
    Or maybe I'm a grumpy old bicce? ;) But hey - I love her too you know! [:D]

    With temper! [face_not_talking]

    And as for Luke, well, we'll continue to agree to disagree.
    That we do, sweetie! [:D]

    For me, CoO was such a breath of fresh air after FotJ (which I generally enjoy, I just miss our heroes when they were young).
    Me too! Which is why I had so high hopes! But never mind. We can't always have what we want. I'm glad you got it!

    And I just can't quibble about Zahn when I'm reading HttE. I always forget how fabulous this book is, until I read it again.
    We agree on that![face_mischief] Now, there's a few issues of course but...[face_devil] Nothing serious, though...;)

    But I will ask him that question for you!
    Looking forward to hear about it! [face_mischief]


  21. NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 4

    I think she DID make it, from that, to a devoted wife and mother, and a diplomat. Most people don't change much after 30, but she had so many revolutions. That's why her death was a bitter pill to me. She IMO didn't deserve her Jedi masterhood when she got it, because she was ill, and the stakes were high and Jaina took off, but in the end she did, esp after TUF. And the things she did on Duro. So to have her revert back to her mindless younger self was so sad to me. My feelings changed for her mostly after ROTS. No one could ever deal with Palpatine and come away undamaged, he's pure venom.
  22. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    NelanisGhost - Most people don't change much after 30, but she had so many revolutions.
    Good point. Mara's development only started there for real!

    My feelings changed for her mostly after ROTS. No one could ever deal with Palpatine and come away undamaged, he's pure venom.
    I think Ian McDiarmid made an amazing work in ROTS - and an invaluable contribution to the GFFA. Before that, Palpatine had only been a yellowish old wrinkleface who cackled 'good, good' and seemd to remind Luke every time he was about to fall to the dark side - after ROTS he was a superclass villain - and that propelled SW to an even higher level.

  23. NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2006
    star 4
    I love Ian. Even though Palpatine is such a slimy creature, Ian made him likable and detestable at the same time. You LOL at his smarmy shenanigans. You almost wished he wasn't evil. I'm really looking forward to the Darth Plagueis novel. I want to see what made him be the way he was.
  24. Jedi_Saber101 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2011
    star 2
  25. madman007 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2007
    star 4
    There is no way that Zahn hates Star Wars nor is he trying to make it into his own fanboy agenda. Zahn is the only author who gets the SW fanboy-ism with thrilling space battles and plots that surprise and make sense.



    First off, Mara was never a darksider. Palpatine did not teach her the dark side. He gave her skills of an assassin with borrowed use of the Force. I think she saw that Palpatine was evil way before DNT and she never considered her own acts of violence as evil. To be evil you have to have intent to be evil. She was given orders so her only intent was to finish her missions. An assassin is essentially selfish because they act alone and can't have any semblance of a life. Once Palpatine died and she began her friendship with Luke, that selfish act slowly disappeared.


    I have been reading Zahn since the beginning and I can't see any evidence where he "puts down" Luke Skywalker. One thing Zahn does with Luke that I'm not in agreement with is he doesn't give him enough self confidence in using or knowledge of the Force. And why should he? In essence, Luke's training in the Force was very short compared to the Jedi of the Old Republic. He even got less training than his father and look what happened to him. I tend to believe that Luke's power in the Force was inherited from Anakin but his will is from Padme. And speaking of daddy Skywalker, the Force did not get rid of Palpatine--Anakin did. He made that choice while watching his son getting fried. The Force had nothing to do with it. Hence the act of the Chosen One. (And he doesn't utter, "No! Noooo!" as the new blu-ray edition says!)








    (btw, welcome to the 10,000th post on Return of the Tang: Mara Jade Skywalker Fan club!!)
Moderators: Bardan_Jusik, Sinrebirth