REVAMPING OF THE FIRST COAST JEDI KNIGHTS

Dwight,

I always thought we were in good standings until now. Your mindless attacks on the 501st and Gotham City Comics and its management are extremely childish. I took your senseless remarks as a personal attack on myself, others and an incredible organization.





Chase,

Please remember when trooping events that your group must first and foremost, act as an adults and not children. The majority of the time there are lots of excited children around and the individual(s) trooping the event must keep a level head on their shoulders. This means not swinging toy sabers (or anything else) around endangering the kids, adults and property around you. In case you guys are not aware, this can get you sued or worse.

I mention this because of an incident that took place at the Diabetes Walk at the zoo. A couple of guys were fighting with toy sabers (roughly) and almost hit a young girl in a stroller. We heard the mother say how she could not believe how wild the guys were acting in a public place with that many people around, and how it was a good thing the "the guys" did not hit her daughter. Just an FYI.


The 501st Legion has, nor does not affiliate themselves with the FCJK in any way at this time.



Dylan,


My name is Matt, Squad Leader of the Jacksonville and surrounding area 501st Legion.

As others have stated, I (was) an active member of this group before the new leadership came into play. At one time it was fun for me, and well, now it's not. I have continued to monitor these boards for the past many months hoping for a change and glad to finally see a moderator in to take the appropriate actions. This is clearly an issue that can easily be fixed. Allow 2 different boards for the 2 different groups. I'm sure you have considered this.


I am not sure if your position here on the FanForce boards is an elected position like ours in the Legion, but I am confident that you will take the right actions.



A fellow SW collector and fan,

REDEYE
TK/TB/TR-1741
501st Legion
Florida Garrison

Hi, Matt. Glad to have your insight here.

This is a situation that's been brewing for a while (and dragging on needlessly, IMO). Hopefully we'll be able to come to a resolution of some kind in the near future. Might not be pretty, but something's got to change. And soon.

I've always enjoyed working with the 501st, and found them to be an excellent, professional organization. Always glad to see you guys at Dragon*Con, Celebration, etc.

If only I had the money for armor...

Ok...I am only going to say this one thing...I dont have a PC right now because it crashed. I dont appreciate my personal life being dragged through the mudd on here. Also, not the its your business but there is nothing between Luis and I now. I could also let go with some secret dirt too about other members, but I think that is childish and vindictive. I have not logged onto this site for 2 months because personally I was tired of all of the drama all the way around. I have gotten rid of all of my SW stuff because of it and I do not care to participate in events, forums, or any other things that deal with this group. I am sorry to sound like this...but since I have no computer right now and I am not a "member" of the group anymore I would appreciate other members not talking about me, as i will give you the very same respect. Thank you.

That is it!!!! I can no longer hold my tung (dont car if I spell anything right to pissed off to care) DO NOT POINT FINGERS AT OTHER MEMBERS SEMPLY BECAUSE OF YOU SHORT COMINGS OR YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT THAT MEMBER, TAKE A GOOD LONG LOOK AT YOURSELF FRIST AND THINK ABOUT IT BEFORE YOU RUN OFF AT THE MOUTH. THERE ARE A FEW MEMBERS IN HERE I DONT CARE FOR AND THINK THAT THEY ARE NOTHING MORE THEN MEAR CHILDEREN YET HIT THE AGE OF MATURITY, BUT I DONT DRAG THERE NAMES THROUGH THE DIRT WHEN EVER I GET A FART CROSSWAYS OR DONT HAVE A GOOD DAY. AND AS YOU CAN SEE YOU HAVE DESTROYED THE FUN IN THIS GROUP AND YOUR ODVIOUSE INTINTION IS TO ELEMINATE EACH ONE OF US ONE BY ONE UNTIL THERE IS NOONE LEFT. NOW YOU RAN OFF TOO MANY PEOPLE IN FACT I FEEL THAT IF YOU ALL OPEN YOUR EYES YOU CAN SEE WHO THE BAD GUYS ARE HERE. I WASNT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING UNTILE YOU BRANG MY SISTER BACK INTO THIS. NOW BASH ME IF YOU WILL BUT THAT WILL ONLY SHOW YOUR LEVEL OF MATURITY AND PROVE MY POINT. AND IF YOU FEEL THAT I NEED TO BE KICKED OUT, THEN SO BE IT!!! GO AHEAD AND BOOT ME BECAUSE I HAVE HAD IT WITH THIS. I GO OFF ON VACATION TO ENJOY MY 21ST BIRTHDAY AND COMEBACK JUST TO SEE MORE BASHING. IF YOU ARNT MATURE ENOUGH TO NOT POST YOUR BASHING ON A PUBLIC FORUM THEN GET OFF AND GO AWAY. NOW MY FINAL THOUGHTS ARE UNTIL "CERTAIN" PEOPLE ARE REMOVED OR COOL THERE JETS I WILL JUST SING OFF UNTIL I GET A CALL AND A FORMAL APPOLOGY, UNTIL THEN

GOOD BYE!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. Congradulations You have accomplished another objective one more pare of people out of the group.

RedEye, as far as I'm concerned, it's people taking things too personally that got us in this situation. What was the last thing I said in my comment about the 501st? What was it because I seem to have forgotten but from what I remember it was that the organization was a wonderful idea that simply lost its way. You know what that means? It means it could be wonderful again. I am well aware that there are members of the 501st here on this board. Most of them are good and decent people. I love Steve as a brother, he is a wonderful person. Members of the 501st are WONDERFUL PEOPLE. The organization, however, has become rather snobbish. And perhaps if you'd take a few breaths and calm down enough to actually look into that, you'd understand where I'm coming from.

You still haven't read the rest of my script by the way. I'm hurt. It's been finished for some time now. I asked the 501st if there was anyone in their ranks that could help with the production. They told me "it's not the kind of project we're interested in." Forgive me for being offended. My axe isn't to grind with you. There are enough personal issues in this thread, we don't need to bring any more into it.

As for the mentioning of Luis and Amanda, I do not condone what Travis did. That was a card I neither felt relevant or appropriate.

I too was excited to know that there was a group that enjoyed Star Wars. I don't costume at this time but I enjoy the collecting side of the group and I liked meeting at Gotham City to find out what Master Replicas offered and the discount program offered at Gotham and to hear about up coming events. It was fun to meet Julia and Luis, who both made me feel welcome as part of the group. I have not participated in the group since this incident. It's sad because I just started to meet other people and to see everyone once a month. At the present I don't feel the current group offers the two sided coin that I liked before. The group I joined seemed to understand that some members liked collecting and others did both. We all got along and if something needed to be done it seemed and felt that it would be done. No one seemed to stress out the small stuff and blow things up. I would like a return to those times where both collecting and costuming worked.
Julia and Luis, I hope to see you back in the group soon.

ok my thought on that is

#1 its not your group if you dont like it TAKE A HIKE!!!!!

#2 Luis like me has a life and a job sometimes you cant come to every event and some people get busy which you SHOULD know about being that out of thouse meetings and troops we had i only seen you at maybe 1 because all other times you showed up at the last 30 minutes.

and #3 if he feels like he has enough reason to boot somone then he dont have to prove and damn thing to you.

now anyone else?????

I know I promise HAMA that I was not going to post anything until everybody posted their opinion but I can?t stand by idly and let this continue. I feel that my personal opinion must be expressed in the matters that are currently being up heaved on this thread. So here it is, spelled out carefully. Time taken to make sure I had it right.

First of all I posted this in public as a request of HAMA, he told me to do it publicly and ask everyone opinion on this matter of banning Chase and Patrice from the group, so I did. It took me a long time to write this post because I wanted to state the facts about it. As far as the zoo event goes I?m pretty sure that the event coordinator didn?t realized that the 501st is not a part of the FCJK group and next time they will not get the same show that they did this time, as a matter of fact the 501st was not going to show up at all, the only reason that they did was because I told them too, they where going to call the whole thing off once they figure out who organized the event and that you and your wife picked on fellow members they were going to call it quits, so I begged them to go, because they couldn?t do that to the kids, so they kept their promise. I can assure you they will never troop with the FCJK anymore.

As for Mr. Dwight goes, I was not going to say anything but here it goes?. When you went to the meeting with some ?great news? we all got excited. You informed us that you had finished your Fan Film script and had locked on a budget for it. In the back of everybody?s mind was ?yes we are going to be in the movie? but you said that the casting call was already held and the roles were full, but you needed the help from certain members that were part of the 501st and he needed some ?props? for his movie. We all felt the same way, It felt like a slap in the face you were trying to take advantage of our memberships to the 501st to help your movie. I guess that later you realized what you did and said? you were going to hold special casting for us or any possible left over roles as background characters. If you wanted us to participate in your film you should thought about us first. Specially when we already had a movie in progress that Terry was producing and guess what?. We asked you for a role, but if I recalled right you said it was garbage. That?s why the majority of us didn?t go. Terry thought of the group first and did not called the group for special favors like ?props?. Dwight you just became enemy number one with 501st. You started to talk trash about them and that?s a big no-no. They are my brothers and Yes we are picky when it comes to costuming because we are the ELITE.


To Travis, Mr. Never Went To A SINGLE Gotham City Meeting you said that we never had more than 10 but as you can tell Steve had done the research for me, Thanks Steve for your work, OH MY GOD?. 90 members found on the boards and that?s not counting the members that didn?t have a Fan Force account or a computer to keep up with the boards. Oh by the way nice try, if you think that I?m going hand over my event contacts, you have to be CRAZY. As far as Me and Amanda that is not your business and as Steve said she is not here to defend herself and trying to blackmail me that is just low. But you know what I do thank you because you made me do some research on my lost members but Steve beat me to the punch, I didn?t realize how many members were lost by the mere fights that Patrice started and they stop posting because of that. So Yes we did lost members because of fighting, and most of them are willing to come back if certain individuals leave the group.


Sinclair I suggest that you do a little research as a matter of fact join Travis in the search of the lost members. I?ll give you a hint, go back to page 18 of the post and start looking for them. As Steve posted, yes we had more than 17 members that you claim we didn?t have. They are all on the boards. You went to the last meeting at Gotham, and yes If I?m not mistaken we had around 17 in attendance.

Chase?H

Uh, yeah. All hail Emperor Luis. May he write an edict to define our lives and those of our children.

And if you don't like it, or if he don't like you, TAKE A HIKE!

There is a reason that people like me, and you fail to recognize it.

i have already voiced my oppinion on the matter at hand so i shall stay silent.

Hey Luis, remember when we were at Cold Stone and I asked you to be honest with me and then asked if you had any bones to grind with me about anything? Remember that I said that you could say ANYTHING and that I would accept it and try and fix it? Remember that? I gave you every honorable chance to state your grievance and what was the one and only qualm you noted? That I defend Patrice whenever she acts up. That was it. You didn't say anything about the Film when you had an absolute unobstructive opportunity to do so.

But you know what? I already knew what you were thinking. I already knew about your feelings about the film and about the casting. And I already knew about the feelings of everyone else who felt them. You know how I knew? Because I talked to Steve about it because I wanted to help the FCJK and bring it into the public spotlight in a positive way but I wanted to know what he thought and what he'd think everyone else would think. And that's when he told me everything. But I wanted to give you a chance to say it because I wanted you to know that I was on your side. That I wanted to help you. That I wanted what was best for the FCJK.

I gave you the chance because after that I would have clarified to you that I had been working on the project for eight years . Long before FCJK was even conceived, and that I had already made arrangements for casting before I even considered joining the FCJK and then I would have explained to you the purpose of the entire film, its role on the FCJK and the entire Star Wars community as well as a professional endeavor in our family business, a film production company. I would have gladly opened up to you but you chose not to bring it up. That is not my fault.

I am sorry that you people felt that way about my project. I am sorry that you felt I was out to take advantage of you. Steve can support me when I say that my entire intentions were to use the film to promote the FCJK in their wonderful work on the project and the Florida 501st in their support of a high-quality Star Wars FanFilm(to note, I actually wrote in a scene for the 501st even though the screenplay was fleshed out in early 2003).

But this only shows how closed in you are, Luis. You and the rest of your ilk. Your judgementalism and your cowardess to bring that judgementalism to the people you despise. You think I care that I have somehow made an enemy of you or your people? As far as I am concerned, from your bold little claim of secretly holding hatreds of me and my actions, you were an enemy of me long before I "trash talked" your gang.

Luis, I co

Oh by the way, I was told by HAMA to tell everyone that was/are in the group to post their opinions so it might look like they show up only when they want to trash somebody in the group, but this time I directed to do so. I din;t tell you anything about your movie at that time because I was already mad about the whole situation and I did not wanted to address that issue at that time, you know what until now I was not even not thinking about it, and furthermore I had put it in the past, but you stuck a chord when you attacked the 501st.

I attacked the same 501st that attacked Chase' costume despite it being of considerably high quality (understatement of the century). The same 501st that thumbed its nose at me and the same 501st that has opted to take sides in Julia's little hissy fit. And you haven't even argued my point that they aren't as important as you swear they are. The only reason you do so, anyway, is because you're a part of them; how very, very biased of you.

In any case, I don't believe you at all. You've been holding this in because you lack conviction. You only brought it out now because I legitimately backed you against a wall and you thought you had a card. Failure. You should have left this whole thing well alone. We were recovering fine with ongoing events and successful troops (thanks to Chase). The only people upset were the same people who abandoned you in your time of need. That you continue to pander to them is beyond me. Cajones in a lockbox, amigo?

You need to do some research about the 501st, maybe you will learn something. As fas as the group goes I'm protecting the name of the group with is the only thing left on it, since 90% of the members left, the last ones was Terry and he is so PO right now that he will no longer be a part of this group, so let me do the count right now, Chase, Patrice, Sinclair, Travis and yourself....5 people, I know they are some people out there that have feelings about the whole situation and they do not want to post because they fear of been blasted here, and they prefer to stay quiet and continue to kinda attend to events.

Please spare me the self rightiousness, Luis. We've been hearing about the 90+ members that left since the time of their departure long ago. People say they'll come back, but they didn't care to show up to your trooping events. They didn't care to show up to your get-togethers. They didn't care to show up to anything that we did. They left you over two poeple. I find it ridiculous to blame Chase and Patrice for the supposed mass exodus of "90+ members." If they truly cared about you and your cause as much, if not more than Chase and Patrice, they would have been there at Cold Stone, at Mama Fus and every other troop. But they didn't because they don't care about you. They care about themselves. And as far as they're concerned, anyone who steps on the fat princess Julia when she verbally threatens physical abuse of someone else, deserves their absolute excommunication. You really roll like that, Luis? You abide by that kind of babysitters club mentality?

If the 501st is anything like you or the people who have come here to ridicule two people who have given more to the group than anyone else despite the hostilities, I don't need to do any research of the 501st. You're either giving me a good idea or doing them an extreme disservice, take your pick.

The people demanding that there be two Jacksonville chapters are the exact ones who abandoned the FCJK to begin with. Why don't they start their own club of haters?

For the record, it was Chase and I who came up with the idea of multiple departments within the group, so that we could accomodate everyone. It was you and Julia who either rejected the idea or refused to do anything about it. It's easy to get caught up in the excitement of something you're interested in. But when you're bored, all you can do is observe. And we observed a lot of other people bored at those Gotham City meetings. That is NOT an attack on Gotham City, as I said before, the place is awesome for what it is. The content of the meetings was the problem and that wasn't even a personal attack. Simply it did not match the interests of everyone there.

But rather than make rules and guidelines accessible to EVERYONE by simply posting a sticky on the public forums about costume etiquette and other issues, you chose to hold those ransom at your 3 hour long Master Replica drool sessions. The lightsabers are cool, but forcing people to attend pointless propoganda of material items that draw directly onto our checkbooks is absurd. There were plenty of simple, easy ways to get information out about troops and how to tend to them. But you chose not to. Neglegent of your command status, and that of Julia's, at the time. Neither of you are good managers. You because you lack organizational skills and Julia because she has absolutely no ability to seperate proffessional affairs from her unresolved and irrelevant emotional issues.

Can I say something, please?

"NO!!!"

I'm going to anyway...

There's alot going on right now. And I have to say, this is all very interesting. But, I have some points:

1: There's a reason why this thread was started. So everyone can go ahead and express an opinion other than those who can attend meetings. Hama recommended so.

2: The blasting of the 501st is either here nor there. While yes, a memeber currently, even before I defended their right to be picky on costumes because these are the people selected to do Lucas Film events. Like the Rose Bowl Parade in which 500 501st memebers have been selected. They want the look to be as film canon as can be. It's the way it is.

3: While I have been silent, I have made the fact clear what I want to happen. Reordering. That's all. And if this is the means, well, by god then, it has to be done.

4: I side with Terry. I was the only other person there. And there was media everywhere. I wish more could've attended. He looked destoryed after the event.

5: The few times Luis has had to step aside has been for reasons I understand mostly. The Navy is a cruel mistress and takes no prisoneers. So when he has to go, he goes. They don't let you choose.

6: I know I can't be everyones friend, but by hell I try. I want it to be known though that the fighting on the boards has driven me over the edge. I lead a very stressful life. I found that SW was an outlet I could tap into to relieve that stress. Then, when the fighting happenes, it becomes more stress I don't need. I just went through my last stress ball last week. I can't afford a new one. The group is no longer what I rememeber it as... fun. It feels like alot like work and stress. (And on a more comical note, can I get a raise from the $6.15 an hour I was earning? I mean, come on! I'm an officer for Jebus sake.) From the personal attacks on character to the endless yamerring, it's enough to make me want to start drinking again. And that's not cool.

Let me finish by saying this: I can not afford more stress. I looked to this group as an outlet, when it became so overwhelming, I turned to 501st only events. And those are becoming infrequent right now due to the holidays. So, I've lost my outlet. I'm leaving these boards to get rid of the stress. That's why. Luis just wanted to fix the group. When he tried, he was blasted down. When I tried, I was made to be a fool. I don't need to be told I'm a fool. I'm one already because I fell in love. ("Why do fools fall in love?") Now he's just trying one more time. And wants everyone to chime in. Old and new. Young and old. Deceased and alive.... wait stratch that one. But still, let just stay on topic, and say what we saw the group as then and as now. Thank you. Now flame away.

>Steve

This makes no sense. You can't come on here and say that Hama said to make this post. Until Hama says otherwise, I don't buy for a minute that Hama just woke up one day and said "Hmmmm let me go over to the FCJK boards and have the CO make a public post decrying the actions of a couple of do-gooders so that old trolls might return to burn more bridges."

I believe Hama was given information and he took that information to make his decision. Which means that this whole post is not Hama's doing but someone else who is too much a coward to come up and admit to it. And that's fine. I'm seeing a lot of that going around. But it is blatantly clear that the bad news is grossly exagerated and being placed on one - and only one - scapegoat. Chase. Two, if you count his wife as seperate, but let's not play semantics.

The bottom line is, Steve, that your armor is YOUR armor. If you can't find a way to protect it, that's your problem. If I'm driving a car with someone in the passenger seat and I change lanes and smack into another car, but I didn't see the car, but my passenger did and they chose not to say anything for whatever reason, it's not my passenger's fault that I crashed. It's mine. Because I'm driving MY car. It's MY responsibility. Your costume is YOUR responsibility. And don't go saying "well that's not how the 501st does it." We are not the 501st. Nobody's making you dress up in a vision-impaired plastic diaper (though it does look hella cool). While we appreciate you coming in the solid pimpness, we do not appreciate you placing blame on someone else for your inadequacy of protecting your property.

In regards to the 501st wanting to look "as cannon as can be" may I direct you to this picture:
[image=http://images.501stforums.com/memberdata/27/49/bh2749_full.jpg] Yeah, that's straight out of Episode...huh?

I'm sorry that Terry had nobody else show up. But is that entirely Chase's fault? What about the fault of everyone else who didn't show up? I didn't show. Julia didn't show. Julia's friends didn't show. Amanda didn't show. But all of that is Chase's fault. Even if Chase and Patrice had shown up, that would have been an epic 3 people. Please, this is idiocy.

I'm sorry for your stress. But blaming it all on Patrice and Chase is not something I'm going to let you or anyone else get away with. From fake avatars to campaign insults, Julia and her goons have been heckling this forum ever since they left. It is silly that they even be given the time of day.

Nobody had any problem with taking all of this up at the next meeting, that's what it was scheduled for. But SOMEBODY wasn't satisfied with having to wait. SOMEBODY hates Chase and Patrice. And the fact that they're getting their way in having this stupid ordeal last this long, AND people are going along with it, chills me.

Luis, my friend I'll be a brief as possible:

Plain and simple, my loyality resides with you. You founded the First Coast Jedi Knights therefore, the way I see it you call the shots. If others do not share, embrace or endorse your vision when it comes to how this organization should be run then they need to S-T-E-P. This is a big city with a lot of people so, naturally not everyone is going to agree on everything. Having said that, if the individuals who do not agree with how Luis is running the show are unwilling to respect his decisions then they should simply start their own group. I'll be the first to admit, I'm not a costumer but I have the upmost respect for the 501st. I've never met an unkind person from the 501st and since Luis was the first member I've met from that group it comes as no suprise to me why he embodies all that they have come to stand for. It only seems like yesterday when I was spending time at C-3 with members of the FCJK...members who I have come to care alot for.....members who shared my passion for Star Wars....members who respected how I demonstrated my passion and vise versa......members I have come to regard as FAMILY....yes, that's right family. When you think about it, even families have members who they may or may not want around becaue they have chosen to become a disruptive factor. Granted, my work scheduled hasn't allowed me to attend meetings as much as I would like but I've always made a concerted effort fo spend time with those who haven't forgotten what the group was like early on when it was just starting up. I only hope that we can return back to a more, eh-hem "civilized age" when people within the FCJK talked about how great Star Wars is instead of themselves. Self-promoting and grandstanding should have NO place in this group....that more-often-than-not proves to be divisive. Well, so much for brief, .......Luis, you have my backing buddy. Let me know how I can further help.

Peace to you all and MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU.

Darrell

I'm not blaming my stress on them! I'm blaming my stress on the fact that I come on here to talk and chat relaxed. Not fight! Which seems to be trendy on these boards as of lately. And, while my armor is my responibility, it's also nice to have people watch out for you. Which, is what people have said, is what a group does. Watch out for each other. I turned serval times in Gary's and Terry's direction (for he told me that they several times hit him on the head) and the kids stopped briefly. I know they did the same in mine (I saw Gary turn and asked him why, he told me he was looking at the kids).

Dwight, you are one of my best friends, and I agree with you about the car and armor thing. But, please don't put words in my mouth before I say them. The 501st in no way always brings spotters. It's just, we preferr to try and have them when avaible.

But, the fact is, in the end, my problem was not that my armor was damaged (though, that was a fact I could not deny, it was bad parenting at fault for that one) it was the fact that we looked like a bunch of childish fools. I don't like that. I don't costume or give to charities to look like a child. I do it because it's good and helpful to socity. I never stated that it was everyones responiblity to watch out for me in armor. It helps to have spotters. Again, we looked like childish fools. I don't like that. Not at all. Funny stuff is allowed from time to time, but not running around a store. And I'm just as guilty and I turn around and I apolgize for it everytime.

And, as for the picture which you cite, the Mandorlian armor standards do not approve home grown mandos currently. Depends though. The forums are acctually in discussion on the 501st main site about this growing trend. It will be decided upon soon (hopefully, but you never know). But the Canada Garrisons have apprently decided to make the first move. Leave it to us in Canada...

The point I'm making is that, the small things add up. And when you say you're gonna be somewhere, try and be there. Even if you're late, try. But, when you know something is well planned months ahead of time and you know it's coming, why promise to be somewhere else and then back off at the last minute?

And I'm just as guilty and have been called on it. And I take all the responibility. Here and in the 501st. And the RL when we did things... Matt's called me on them, Luis has called me on them, Julia has called me on them. I accepted the responibility and appolgized and we all moved on. And we're still friends.

Now, I said it once, and I'll say it again. I'm not blaming Chase for anything major. It's just small things add up. And I'd like to still be his and many others friend. But my affilation with the group is over. I can't risk another heart attack due to stress. And I won't let the stress build me up to that point again.

My friends are my family. At one point I looked at this group as my family. I look at the 501st Jax group as my family. I look at my personal friends as my family. I don't have one of my own that you could call good. Or even nice for that matter. So, I'd rather have a large group of people who I'm not realted to in any manner or way and call them my family. And I like this group to be my family again, but I'm obvisiouly not going to get that.

>Steve

You are correct. This was my suggestion in a PM to Luis:

Date Sent: 11/20 9:38pm
Date Read: 11/21 4:05am
Subject: RE: Need your thoughts
Body: In my opinion, talking out issues face-to-face is always better than anything written out, even in PMs. But I'll throw my name in the hat if people need to PM me their thoughts and opinions. Might be best to narrow down whatever topic you're wanting people to discuss.

---

/>

Odd that it somehow became MY idea.

I think I've heard about enough in this thread. I've got to leave for court this morning (gotta testify against a drunk driver). I'll be back later this morning/afternoon. For now, consider this thread locked./>/>