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RPR Archive Revamping the Guilds - Now Discussing the Characters Thread

Discussion in 'Role Playing Resource Archive' started by DarthXan318, Aug 9, 2009.

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  1. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

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    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    I understand the sentiment, but honestly I think it's being applied too much like a rule of thumb. I think GMs who honestly view games as competitive, rival-warranting field are in the extreme, albeit socially vocal, minority.

    Not to mention the line is downright condescending. I like to think (And maybe I'm just being naïve) that most GMs are in it to have fun and provide players with a vehicle through which they can also have fun.
  2. LordTroepfchen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2007
    star 4
    I actually agree it has gotten a lot better . . . I mean there are no rivalries or anything, anyway . . . until the awards come along.

    But I´d say you should probably "encourage" the good mood among GMs right now, by not putting this in the post, Fin. Otherwise fine, fine . . .
  3. DarkLordoftheFins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2007
    star 4
    Well, I had my doubts about that sentence, so if you got some too . . . consider it gone. Anything missing?
  4. SirakRomar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2007
    star 4
    Can´t say a lot about the GMG, except that I probably wonßt join it any time soon, or be a GM for that matter but I´ll read along to see what my great story-tellings GMs have on their mind [face_hypnotized]


    Doesn´t that mean the people do never win? You can´t nominate anybody for a year if he wins. Also even if you may not agree, it might be that some people are well liked and have fans around here . . .

    From my experience the largest games win as well as their most active/visible players. Which is a matter of logic. I can´t vote for someone I haven´t read. I think the last four Best-Game wins happened in the order of player numbers.

    If groups are dominating these wins might be a result of group-work.



    Well, I finally decided to speak my mind about cliques.

    Cliques. We have a problem here that I think is addressed under the "idea of cliques", but I must say most of those groups one can consider a clique -most of the time people playing or have played certain games together for a long time- are pretty peaceful and open to others.

    I assume the problem are people having problems with other people. I have been victim of unexplained aggression a few times. Harassment. Insults. Ignoring my posts. Asking me to leave a game. All that happened. I am not aware to have done anything to anyone. I have also realized certain people´s behavior. What I have not yet perceived is that they belong to one group. They are united by not liking me, at best.









    />/>
  5. greyjedi125 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    star 4
    GMG!! Woot!! [:D]

    Wasn't aware of any rivalries. That's news to me. :confused:

    *proceeds to happily join! Game on!w00t!! :D [face_dancing]
  6. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    Every time discussions of player groups come around, I rope myself into it all be trying to say something incredibly insightful, only to be shown that it isn't that simple...I wind up with my foot firmly in my mouth, which is honestly the best place for it sometimes, as it prevents me from talking even more. [face_blush]

    I'd also like to apologize for all the nonsense that I spew about groups; most of the time I speak without thinking, which is no excuse.
  7. Sith-I-5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 5
    Lovely to see some stars next to our names! :D
  8. Winged_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    As for 'cliques' (a somewhat charged term, I think), I would say that this is always going to happen to some extent. When we see users who have friendships and a shared RPing history, that is naturally intimidating in some way.

    For example, the WOTG players once dominated not just their threads, but slso (it seemed to me) the social scene of the RPF. They also came up with all the new ideas for RPing and for the forum. Later it was the IBOP players who took up that same role. Later still it might have been (on a smaller scale) the Podracer crowd, or the 007 crowd (they were called a 'family', after all). Nowadays it might be the Man Cubs group, or the ABYverse followers, or the 'Germans' with their Codex09 thread and their crazy continental ways. :p

    In every case (in my experience), I have found that the so-called 'cliques' are actually not closed off at all. They are willing and enthusiastic to befriend and welcome other players- but they may not always make the necessary effort to show it.

    So, for the most part, division of our small community is a matter of quite reasonable misperceptions. IMHO.

    Anyway, Sirak, I'm very sorry to hear that you've experienced those things. I'm surprised to hear, in particular, that you were asked to leave a game.

    Finally, Peng, I would have tended to agree with you on Awards...until I took a look at the Hall of Fame. There's actually quite a variety there. There has to be, because the rules dictate that over the course of a year (four seasons) we will have sixteen different individual Award winners. Which is actually quite a lot for such a small community.

  9. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    Again, foot-in-mouth...
  10. Winged_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Hey, as I said, I would have agreed with you before I actually checked. My instinctive reaction was the same as yours: 'oh yeah, it's just the same groups all the time'. And that probably is the case for the Stars awards, at least. But it seems the rules for the Main Awards do ensure a reasonable amount of variety.
  11. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    Alright alright alright...

    So...

    Maybe we just had our cliques discussion?

    Sounds like there was some hearts changed, some wounds healed, some discoveries made, etc. etc?

    That'd be nice if the following was all it took!

    PM me your answer to this question.

    Why PM? Because we have a GMG to talk about!

    So the groups/competition line is going out. Does anyone see anything else problematic with the opening post?

    Once it goes up, its up there. So now is your time to have a voice in the process. Speak now and all that some such!


    As for my opinion, I like most of it, but I'm a little confused about membership. So, is it open to all like the second sentence says? Oooor do you need to post membership like the third sentence says?

    And do we really need a membership proviso? I put it in GDG b/c I envisioned it as a sort of community, and its a identity building exercise. But now that we're making the groups more open and welcoming, perhaps this is not even needed?

    -I_H/>
  12. greyjedi125 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    star 4
    Hmmm? :confused:

    Well, I'm all for membership, obviously. I'm also cool with the membership options, whether we place it in our sigs or profiles. Having options is always cool. Also, I do believe the GMG needs its own thread because it's inherent in its specifics.(is this what your talking about?) Especially since our focus will be dealing with actual/current/ and ongoing games, rather than ideas and theories which are best suited for the GDG. (does this make sense, am I totally confused/confusing?)

    All guilds are part of the greater community while serving their individual functions, at least that's how I see it, so in my mind,there isn't any detrimental 'division' of community or union. Again, I may need to re-read all this, since your last question really confused me, Mr. Imprerial Hammer, sir. :p

    Majority rules, so if we're going to do this, lets! I really think this is a step in the right direction. And yes, I know we need to be clear on the purpose and focus of these projects...hence these much needed discussions.

    Anywho, lunch time is over. gtg!

    Laters folks,

    [face_peace]



  13. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    Hahaha, its probably much more simple than what you read it to be Grey.

    Simplified: Do we really need to have the whole "put that you're a membership of GMG/GDG/whatever in your profile or sig" stipulation. Or rather, just kill the whole idea of "membership" and post wherever you post. My confusion was that Fins' original post seems to be saying both yes, you need to say that you're a member in your sig/bio, and no you don't have to.

    Hence, I seek some clarification. ;)

    -I_H

  14. DarkLordoftheFins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2007
    star 4
    Well my idea is that the thread is open to everyone, but you can "voice your support" by making yourself a member. I have some ideas for the future, which also might require to know who is in a pool and who is not . . . actually I awlays liked that abut guilds. You saw a guy posting and you knew he hangs around in the same thread as you do always . . .
  15. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    Considering guild membership has always been free and only ever used to promote a sense of community, I say keep it - if we start getting into crazy requirements to simply add one's two cents to the pot, then I'd be for abolishing it. As far as I can see though, it has done no harm.
  16. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
    Perhaps rephrase it to say "If you like, you can note that you're a member of the Game Masters Group in your signature or bio, but that is not required"?


    ETA - By the way, as the GMG has been on the table for nearly a week already - is there anything else? Speaketh now or forever hold your peace, etc... :D
  17. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    That sums it up much better than a windbag like me ever could!
  18. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    Alrighty!

    Xan and I have seen Fins' final draft for the GMG and we approve of it. So we're discharging it from this discussion and Fins now has our green light to launch whenever he is ready. We wish him all the best, and we look forward to seeing what comes of this new RPR institution.

    Keeping with grand plan to knock the groups out first, we then move our attention to the next generation GDG. I've got the first post written out, and I think I got everything that needed to get changed. As we did with the GMG, this first post is now up for review and discussion until it dies down. Then we'll rinse and repeat with CDG.

    For now though, GDG II:

    ***The Game Designer's Group: 2nd Edition***

    [image=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/Imperial_Hammer/Prosperitythroughendeavor.jpg]

    Introduction

    Welcome to the Game Designers Group, a group dedicated solely to the development of creative, and most importantly quality games to be used in the RPFs. Imperial Hammer will be serving as coordinator for this thread, an open-ended group of users united around the shared interest of creating high-quality first posts. First posts are an essential step in role playing. They are the first thing any player reads when considering joining a game, and lay the foundation for everything that is to follow.

    This is the second incarnation of The Game Designer's Guild. There is a great deal of history and insight to be found inside this thread. If you put the effort into looking through it, you may learn quite a bit.

    What we are and are not

    This Group is firstly not about characters. Discussions about characters take place in the Character Development Group.

    This Group is also not about GMing (Game Mastering). Discussions about that take place in the Game Master's Group. While your decisions in launching a game most certainly will effect your GMing experience, we do not talk about that experience here. Once you press the "submit" button and post a game, this group ceases to apply to anything that follows. The GMG shall be the forum to discuss those types of in-game elements. When the GDG discusses GMing in a game, it shall be in a predictive/theoretical nature only.... the extrapolations of a designer, looking outwards to his future game through the veil of uncertainty.

    So what is left then? This group discusses:

    1.) What type of games should/can be launched (themes and genres)
    2.) When to launch games (times in the year that work better than others)
    3.) How to launch games (do you use advertisement or not?)
    4.) Policies to add to your first post and their theoretical consequences (player caps, specific rules and system elements)
    5.) Artistic and stylistic elements of the first post

    Discussion

    Discussion is what we do here. We offer advice, we review first posts, we speculate on when to run games and what type of games to run. We all have different ideas and experiences in writing first posts, and therefore we call can learn from each other. Everyone in this group should work towards the end goal that no game should fail on start-up. Every game deserves the chance to live.

    So that this group is as open and welcoming as possible, discussion here will be entirely user-driven. If it falls under the umbrella of this group, anything can be talked about at any time. If there are two topics that want to be discussed at one time, the order of discussion will be first come, first served. Once there is a topic of discussion in the queue, the topic currently under discussion will have 5 days to wrap up. If this is not a sufficient amount of time, topics can be repeated as many times as required.

    Review and Feedback

    Another core function of this group is to review and offer feedback for games. Unlike the Game Designers Guild, this group will focus more on this element. The Game De/>
  19. DarkLordoftheFins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2007
    star 4
    The GMG will rise tomorrow or Saturday, latest. My comments of the GDG will follow soon . . . a bit busy, right now . . .
  20. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    I'm a bit lost with the change of Guild to Group.

    Also...well, if it ain't broke, why fix it? This does seem like a lot of the same stuff, as it should be, but I still feel like we're changing just because we have little else to do....
  21. LordTroepfchen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2007
    star 4
    Well, I still think Guilds sounded like Elite´s, oldbie assossiations. And they were totally broken, so repairing them but keeping the name doesn´t work for me. But I think in the dicussions we had about it, we pretty much established, that it seems to be a matter of taste. More conservative people think repairing the brand is fine, while reformers like me tend to think it is better to repair and rename the thing so people realize there was a change . . .

    Speaking of which, I feel the Guild spends too much time making a difference to the other two and actually I think we should talk about a few things.

    1. An order to submit games? Right now people throw in games like hell . . . and only one get´s dicussed.

    2. I think we should add an "interest-test" to the guild, as many useres here say they use it as such.

    Otherwise it will be about running it different, basically. Instead of naming or identifying it differently. Therefore, we must see if the "Second Incarnation" of the GDG isn´t just seen as "The GDG" . . . or said differently: I don´t think those tired of the GDG weill feel this is something different where they can go to contribute. They will feel this is still the GDG. And I think that´s a bad thing.

    It is a revive of the GDG instead of a new born entity serving a broader scope.
  22. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    But this is basically just a relaunch and a fresh start...I really don't see what the whole issue is with making it a feel-good hit of the summer.
  23. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    I personally don't understand the issue with the semantics. Though that's probably because when I think "guild" I think "Internet group" thanks to... well, the internet.
  24. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    Hmm... well...

    On Names Revisited: What Fins said, Peng. It doesn't matter to me either which way. Guild, group, whatever. I think a new thread signifies the change in the direction, but if enough people think Guild is a bad name, which is it what it seemed like when we were talking about it, then groups it is.

    If there is suddenly a groundswell to defend the idea of a guild, perhaps there can get some back-and-forth on the name issue. Like I said before, however, I don't want this type of semantics debate to distract us from the bigger issues.

    GDG2: Differences b/w Guilds: Yah that can be thinned out. Reason why I put it in there was that its "thinned" jurisdiction should be clear to everyone.

    GDG2: Discussion Ordering: Thats in there actually.

    So that this group is as open and welcoming as possible, discussion here will be entirely user-driven. If it falls under the umbrella of this group, anything can be talked about at any time. If there are two topics that want to be discussed at one time, the order of discussion will be first come, first served. Once there is a topic of discussion in the queue, the topic currently under discussion will have 5 days to wrap up. If this is not a sufficient amount of time, topics can be repeated as many times as required.

    GDG2: Interest Test: Thats fine. A sentence or two can solve that, and it seems like a proper function of the guild.

    Last Comments / GDG as a whole:

    I worry that the GDG is being treated more harshly than it deserves. I think a majority of the people here are fine with the GDG as a revamp, and I would love to hear some ideas on what you might like to see in it. Do remember that the GDG is the RPR's largest non-social thread. And back in the day, it worked very very well (otherwise we wouldn't be seeing it as it is now, with almost 3.5K posts. You can compare with the CDG, which has its own different history, but was launched I believe only one day after the GDG). Yes it has declined over the past year or so, but this shouldn't condemn the schema behind it.

    As I said in a little piece a long time ago in the Programs thread, the problem I see with the GDG is that it was top heavy. The original was driven almost exclusively by its guild-master, and while that worked when I had a ton of time in university, it predictably wiped out when I moved over to grad school. Hence, the new draft is slimmed down, less centralized at the top, and boasts a few new-user-friendly changes. This draft was designed to be a better version of the same GDG.

    While reformation can be good, total reformation can throw out some valuable things from the past. I believe I also wrote somewhere in this thread, we need to do smart reform.

    Perhaps you can elaborate on what you think could be the GDG's broader scope that you mentioned? If anything, I was under the impression we were seriously chopping down the swath of the GDG in order to help the GMG get more room to run. So if you're under the impression that we should widen it, I would love to hear what areas we could possibly. I frankly can't think of anything pertinent to game design that isn't at some place covered elsewhere.

    In short, more details please! :) Especially on the reasoning of these people who think that the GDG design is irreparably broken, and how these people wish to fix it.

    -I_H
  25. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    May 23, 2005
    star 6
    Not to be difficult, but if the name's not a big deal, why change it? That's all I'm saying.
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