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Abq Revenge of the Sith Discussion

Discussion in 'SouthWest Region Discussion' started by BrotherHalo, May 18, 2005.

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  1. BrotherHalo

    BrotherHalo RSA Emeritus and Heckler star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 12, 2003
    Hey, I liked Shrek 2!

    Or maybe it was just the thought of Pinocchio wearing a thong...
     
  2. obi_dave_kenobi

    obi_dave_kenobi Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Sep 10, 2004
    Thongs are cool, Ephant Mon Thongs!

    Yeah I saw the turn believable. He was really messed up in the head and didn't know how to control his emotions. The Jedi council dropped the ball on training him. If they were so concerned about him at first they shoul have kept a close eye on him, their failure was the main cause of the jedi's downfall.

    And i'm sorry bob but Shrek 2 was at best mediocre. and Titanic is a piece of crap...
     
  3. FlirtationOfficer

    FlirtationOfficer Jedi Youngling star 3

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    May 6, 2005
    I found Anakin's turn to the darkside to be the only real weak point in the film. It was too shallow, even for Anakin (who does tend to think shallow). He goes from simply distrusting the Jedi council's ways and being frustrated by his "half a seat" on the Jedi council, to almost immediately wiping them out without mercy, even children he knew personally. There no scene in the movie that seems to explain why he can make such a tremendous jump from distrust and frustration to mass murder and child killing. Some might point to Anakin's need to save Padme from death, but even then, there's never an indication in ANY of the prequel movies that he's willing to kill multitudes of innocent people he knows in order to save one person from death. There's just no valid setup, essentially, for this drastic a turn via such a shallow reason. Even Anakin never displays this low level of shallowness or cold hearted-ness in the first two prequels or in the first half of Revenge. The only thing that kinda redeems this point is that obviously he does go kookoo and perhaps there are thoughts in Anakin's mind that are so extreme, and we just don't know about them. The events following basically tell us this is probably so. But that's just speculation, and I found Anakin's turn to the darkside to be the only real weak point in the film. It was too shallow, even for Anakin (who does tend to think shallow). He goes from simply distrusting the Jedi council's ways and being frustrated by his "half a seat" on the Jedi council, to almost immediately wiping them out without mercy, even children he knew personally. There no scene in the movie that seems to explain why he can make such a tremendous jump from distrust and frustration to mass murder and child killing. Some might point to Anakin's need to save Padme from death, but even then, there's never an indication in ANY of the prequel movies that he's willing to kill multitudes of innocent people he knows in order to save one person from death. There's just no valid setup, essentially, for this drastic a turn via such a shallow reason. Even Anakin never displays this low level of shallowness or cold hearted-ness in the first two prequels or in the first half of Revenge. The only thing that kinda redeems this point is that obviously he does go kookoo and perhaps there are thoughts in Anakin's mind that are so extreme, and we just don't know about them. The events following basically tell us this is probably so. But that's just speculation, and not obvious


    This guy said what I was thinking. Anyone feel differently and why. I am not trying to be negative I obviously love Staar Wars but this did disappoint me.
     
  4. JediMexx

    JediMexx Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Aug 31, 2004
    Wow..now that you put it that way Bob..I can see your point! Personally I would have no problem doing something that would send me to hell if it came down to protecting my wife and kids.
     
  5. FlirtationOfficer

    FlirtationOfficer Jedi Youngling star 3

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    May 6, 2005
    Don't you think he believed the Emperor too soon? He knew that the Sith Lord Darth Maul killed Qui Gon why would he believe him that quickly? I probably just need to read the book.
     
  6. obi_dave_kenobi

    obi_dave_kenobi Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Sep 10, 2004
    Palpatine has been messing with anakins head since before Clones, so it's well over 5 years time. The fact that Palpatine had something to do with the killing of Qui Gon in minimal to Anakin. Revenge some guy you hardly knew or find a way to save your love, Not a hard decision. The Jedi dropped the ball, Palpi picked it up.
     
  7. JediMexx

    JediMexx Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Aug 31, 2004
    Just think of it this way....when making any decision.

    The ones you make with your mind are rational and make sense.

    The ones you make with your heart are irrational (quick reactions) and most of the time do not make any sense.

    That is what I think happened to Anakin (after reading Bob's post). He was just too emotional of a guy.

    Don't get me wrong when I first saw the movie I thought...no way...but after reading Bob's post and thinking would I do the same...hell ya I would!
     
  8. obi_dave_kenobi

    obi_dave_kenobi Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Sep 10, 2004
    Yoda tells Anakin to let go of all that you care for for it may lead to the Darkside. Nobody wants to hear that, Palpatine played with him and told him what he knew Anakin wanted to hear. I feel sorry for him too.
     
  9. jedimaster_polarbear

    jedimaster_polarbear Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2005
    How soon is too soon?

    However, it really wasn't too soon. Think about it, Palpatine has been mentoring him for 13 years by this point. Palpatine is the only one who doesn't appear to judge Anakin for his anger or his fear. He has become the only person Anakin thinks he can trust.

    Yoda tells Anakin to let go of his fear of loss, but Anakin can't bring himself to do that. If you feared losing the person you love the most, and believed you couldn't live without them, what would you do to save them? When Palpatine basically says, "If I die, you cannot save Padme," he knows he cannot let Palpatine die. However, Anakin's choice to stop Mace Windu ends in a way that he didn't forsee. He didn't choose to kill Mace, but his choice resulted in that

    I think the point is that Vader really isn't the ultimate evil in the galaxy. He isn't evil for the sake of evil, but he makes the wrong choices at every crucial point in his life. The ultimate evil in the galaxy is Sidious who only wants power over others.

    The Jedi failed in teaching Anakin to let go of his fear of loss. Yoda felt the fear in TPM, but because Anakin was never his Padawan, Yoda couldn't teach Anakin to control his fear.

    Polarbear
     
  10. FlirtationOfficer

    FlirtationOfficer Jedi Youngling star 3

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    May 6, 2005
    That I agree with. I think what destroyed the Jedi was there dogmatic code of no attachment. What saved Luke from the darkside was his attachment to his friends and sister. Atleast he has Mara Jade in the EU.
     
  11. obi_dave_kenobi

    obi_dave_kenobi Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Sep 10, 2004
    I really liked the movie, but I had a difficult time seing characters I had grown to love being put thru hell.
     
  12. FlirtationOfficer

    FlirtationOfficer Jedi Youngling star 3

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    May 6, 2005
    Thanks guys I think I need to see it again from another perspective
     
  13. BrotherHalo

    BrotherHalo RSA Emeritus and Heckler star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 12, 2003
    No kidding. You know, with the OT, I figured Obi-wan a bit of a smarmy old guy (point of view crap and all that).

    But to see the heartwrenching ache he had to go through to face Anakin. That was heartfelt. He begged Yoda to go up against Palpatine! He'd rather face off against the Master Sith Lord than be forced to kill Anakin. I now look at older Obi-wan with a new respect.
     
  14. obi_dave_kenobi

    obi_dave_kenobi Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Sep 10, 2004
    You could see his emotion at the end when he was talking to anakin, He could have saved Anakin from catching on fire but he knew that Anakin was far from salvation and he needed to walk away.
     
  15. BrotherHalo

    BrotherHalo RSA Emeritus and Heckler star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 12, 2003
    I know! Obi-wan, even seeing that Anakin was just so full of hatred and anger and beyond redemption, still couldn't bring himself to kill Anakin.
     
  16. LetoQuorme

    LetoQuorme Mos Alba FF Chapter Rep star 4

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    Nov 11, 2001
    Just got back from a second viewing, still great!
     
  17. FlirtationOfficer

    FlirtationOfficer Jedi Youngling star 3

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    May 6, 2005
    Yes I absolutely loved Ewan. He did an awesome job of being Obi wan
     
  18. LadyNaberrie

    LadyNaberrie Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Feb 7, 2002
    The book explains so much more, everyone...if you want what Anakin is going through from his own perspective...READ THE BOOK! It's wonderfully written and it explains a lot!!! I saw the movie again today and it was still amazing as the first time I saw it, I don't complain about it having flaws because honestly I don't see any flaws. and to WomackD's post....as much of a Potter fan that I am...Harry Potter will never be the "next" Star Wars, it's a good story but Star Wars will live on for a long time.
     
  19. FlirtationOfficer

    FlirtationOfficer Jedi Youngling star 3

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    May 6, 2005
    You know I would have liked to see Aayla Secura fight!
     
  20. ObeyTheFist

    ObeyTheFist Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2004
    I loved Obi-Wan in this film, his dropping down and smiling and just say hi to Grevios, is to me one of the best movie moments. The joy he has in his life even with the fighting... and with him killing Greivous with a gun - I loved that he ended it with, so uncivilized. Great tie in!
     
  21. WomackD

    WomackD Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Aug 20, 2003
    When I said "kids" not liking the Star Wars Prequels more than Harry Potter, I'm talking about those under 12 years of age..

    There is no denying the fact that age group doesn't enjoy Star Wars as much as that same age group back in the late 70's - Early 80's..

    One of the biggest pieces of evidence is looking at the people that are shopping for the action figures.. It's rare I see that age group looking for the toys, but rather people over 20 are looking everytime I go to the store.

    My other point was that if Lucas directed the first two prequels toward older audiences, like he did Episode III, they would have been more "successful" in acceptance with the die hard fans.
     
  22. ObeyTheFist

    ObeyTheFist Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2004
    funny... thats the same group I was talking about...
     
  23. Salvan

    Salvan Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Dec 4, 2004
    "You know I would have liked to see Aayla Secura fight!"

    Flirtation I was hoping too that the blue beauty would put up a fight and escape. Which I thought we would see because the actress that plays Aayla said she thought her character would make cameos in the Live action TV series. I doubt that she could survive the 50 bolts in the back however...
     
  24. FlirtationOfficer

    FlirtationOfficer Jedi Youngling star 3

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    May 6, 2005
    That would have been awesome! And I did miss Qui Gon!
     
  25. JediMexx

    JediMexx Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Aug 31, 2004
    Man...I think you need to look again. What age group do you think is buying up all the lightsabers and Vader helmets. At my son's soccer games and pre-school that is all they talk about..Star Wars. When the new Anakin/Vader color change lightsaber came out...I swear about every single boy at my son's school bought it for show and tell. Kids will like whatever is popular at the time. When I was growing up in the 80's I was into Thunder Cats..Transformers...Masters of the Universe. Did any of that make me less of a fan...nope. In fact I think kids today know more about Star Wars than I did. When we go out to troop it's the kids under 12 that are the most excited to see us.

    Saying someone is not as big as a fan as someone else is pretty lame no matter what the age. I'm sure plenty of people could say hey I'm a bigger fan than you because I went to C3, have a room dedicated to my Star Wars hobby, and have several Star Wars costumes and props. But we all know that is just not true. Being a Star Wars fan cannot be measured by how may toys you have in your collection, how may hours you stand in line at C3, or how many costumes you have.
     
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