Revenge Of The Sith Score Discussion **Official Thread**

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Drac39, Nov 9, 2002.

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  1. The-Tennis-Ball-Kid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2004
    star 3
    Saw it again last week....still enjoyed the movie, though with a few reservations....


    Came out with these questions about the score:

    1. The Arena. Why? Why? Why? Why not at least track in a statement of the Imperial March, y'know, something that makes SENSE!!!?:mad:


    2. The ESB quotes in "Anakin v. Obi-Wan". Did Williams really mean it to underscore the Emperor vs. Yoda? Quotes that specific....it doesn't add up to me. I heard somewhere (maybe this thread:p)that there was a cut portion of The Duel that visually was quite close to "The Clash Of Lightsabers". Anyone know more?




    [face_peace]
    ttbk
  2. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    1. The Arena. Why? Why? Why? Why not at least track in a statement of the Imperial March, y'know, something that makes SENSE!!!?

    Reuse fees for the LSO's recording of ESB, I'm guessing.

    2. The ESB quotes in "Anakin v. Obi-Wan". Did Williams really mean it to underscore the Emperor vs. Yoda? Quotes that specific....it doesn't add up to me. I heard somewhere (maybe this thread tongue )that there was a cut portion of The Duel that visually was quite close to "The Clash Of Lightsabers". Anyone know more?

    Unfortunately, the "Clash of Lightsabers" music fits the Yoda-Sidious duel like a glove (a glove lined with spikes on the inside, that is). There are no edits in it that I remember, except maybe one second that was deleted from the album, not film.
  3. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Cerrabore, what do you think would have worked better for the Yoda-Sidious confrontation?
  4. The-Tennis-Ball-Kid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2004
    star 3
    Not that I'm Cerrabore, but I would have liked to hear the Emperor's theme get a huge rendition (though perhaps that would be better suited for the portion of the film where DotF is....), we never get a resolution to Augie, where as Williams says, "it's trying to get there".




    TtBk
  5. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    I thought Williams had denied the Emperor's theme in "Augie's..."

    Cerrabore, what do you think would have worked better for the Yoda-Sidious confrontation?

    A lot of things. The use of the Imperial March just doesn't work; Vader's not there, and the scene isn't a mirror of the ESB scene. I was hoping for some really big statements of Yoda's theme and the Emperor's theme. That's a big problem with their duel (another one being that it looks COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS, but that's a subject for another board). Their own themes aren't present! Actually, you hear Yoda's theme very briefly as he hops into the speeder, but it's hardly even audible with the sound effects.

    So I was hoping for some music using the characters' themes, or at least nonthematic action music. Plus, the "Clash of Lightsabers" music... it is one of the most vaguely synched cues there are. Yes, the little fanfare when Sidious jumps, but this cue is not timed with the film down to the second, not at all.
  6. Drac39 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    star 6
    I`ll agree the Imperial March seems a bit out of place but I thought it worked becasue they were switching between the two duels
  7. The-Tennis-Ball-Kid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2004
    star 3
    "I thought Williams had denied the Emperor's theme in "Augie's..." "

    I didn't know he had said one way or the other.....




    TtBk
  8. The-Tennis-Ball-Kid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2004
    star 3
    Er, *Jedi mind trick*


    Last post was made too early in the morning....I thought he had said it was there....

    Reuse fees for the LSO's recording of ESB, I'm guessing.
    It's supposed to be ART! And money really shouldn't be a problem.....though I suppose it's a moot point if Lucas doesn't even want new music for that scene....

    It really irks me.:mad:

    TtBk
  9. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    I'm generally OK with "The Clash Of Lightsabers" as it is used, but it would have been better if Lucas had kept a scene with Anakin Force-throwing objects at Obi-Wan during their duel. That would have been a perfect mirror to the Bespin duel.

    I agree that I was disappointed with the sparse use of Yoda's theme and the Emperor's theme throughout ROTS. I hoped for a more full-blown Emperor's theme like in ROTJ, played on brass.

    And I think a light, fast-paced Imperial March (to mirror the Force Theme from "Boys Into Battle") would have worked better for Anakin's march on the Jedi Temple. You can hear a very brief hint at this during the scene on Kashyyyk where the trooper says "All these Wookiees are dead; move to the east.", then we get a bit of that snare drum in the following scenes.

    Another alternative to tracking in "The Arena" cue would have been the resolution of "Augie" into a bolder, darker Emperor's Theme march.
  10. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    To make things worse, the Emperor's theme is tracked at least three times throughout the score... I think there are only two original uses of it (as with Yoda's theme).
  11. --Darth_Ganondorf-- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2003
    star 3
    What scenes come to mind when you think of the Emperor's Theme being tracked? If you're thinking of the post-Mace scene and Sidious's arrival on Coruscant with Vader, I thought that too during my first viewing. I noticed later, though, that the post-Mace scene's statement is longer than the arrival's. Post-Mace gets a few phrases, while the arrival gets one phrase and fractions of another. The statement for the scene on the Republic Gunship is original, as is the statement at the end of "Enter Lord Vader". The last statement I remember is from Sidious's arrival on Mustafar, which sounds slightly familiar, but might just be the instrumentation.

    Also, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think there are only two statements of Yoda's Theme in the movie anyway? :confused:
  12. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    What scenes come to mind when you think of the Emperor's Theme being tracked? If you're thinking of the post-Mace scene (note: I assume you mean starting when Sidious puts on his hood) and Sidious's arrival on Coruscant with Vader, I thought that too during my first viewing. I noticed later, though, that the post-Mace scene's statement is longer than the arrival's. Post-Mace gets a few phrases, while the arrival gets one phrase and fractions of another. The statement for the scene on the Republic Gunship is original, as is the statement at the end of "Enter Lord Vader". The last statement I remember is from Sidious's arrival on Mustafar, which sounds slightly familiar, but might just be the instrumentation.

    You know... with all the dialogue and sound effects, it's hard to tell. The Emperor's theme is partially tracked in the post-Mace scene, because the soundtrack CD (Track 8, after "Padme's Ruminations") contains some music for that scene that wasn't used. It's still longer than the arrival at Coruscant music, though.

    The Republic gunship scene, I believe, is a complicated composite of tracked cues. I can't place everything, but I believe it involves the Emperor's theme from "Enter Lord Vader," the immediate post-Mace scene (instrumental-only Emperor's theme), and the timpani roll from "Enter Lord Vader" (film-only). It also has some music which is definitely from the cue "Anakin Crawling," which plays late in the film. Of course, you can hear the original music for the Republic gunship scene on your RotS CD, the end of Track 6. This is a rare case where I think tracked music was better than the original composition... the recycled Rebel Fanfare from TPM just didn't fit, but the use of the Emperor's theme is creepy and foreboding. It is possible, though, that the film version of this is an alternate cue AND tracked music. Very confusing.

    The use of the Emperor's theme in "Palpatine's Seduction" (where Palpatine reveals his identity) is obviously tracked from the post-Mace scene (instrumental), because the original music for that segment is in a videogame.

    And yes, Yoda's theme is only there twice. The first is an extended statement during the entire scene where Yoda leaves Kashyyyk, while the second is very brief as Yoda confesses that he failed to Organa.
  13. --Darth_Ganondorf-- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2003
    star 3
    Interesting... I'll be able to see what I think of the Gunship scene, since I still have a clip from some European TV show that has (part of) the scene in there. Not sure what I'll be able to say though, since you might've already said everything for me. :p Who knows, I'll give it a shot anyway.


    And by the way, post-Mace did mean the scene when Sidious puts on the hood and not the naming, so I should probably start calling it the post-naming scene to lessen confusion...
  14. Ob-wan-shawa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 3
    Yesterdy I listened to the Rots soundtrack and I noticed the lack of the imperial march during the movie. This is the movie where the empire starts, darth vader starts. And the tune is in it like twice. Maybe it should be there when the empire is made (Though the music then is amazing) or smething. None.
    Also I agree with that stuff that the emporer's tune should have been in there somewhere, maybe a bit during the yoda sids duel. Or post turn thing like you just said.
  15. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    The Imperial March made as many as ten appearances throughout the score, but only briefly, for the most part.
  16. Ob-wan-shawa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 3
    Well not noticebly I mean.
  17. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    I thought it was pretty noticeable.

    If you were looking for a cue featuring an "all-out" IM, well, that's at the end of AOTC. Lucas felt that the Empire really began when Palpatine got his clone army, because he had Williams put the IM in that scene.
  18. Ob-wan-shawa Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 3
    Well yeah is what Iwas looking for.
  19. Zarm_Rkeeg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2003
    star 3
    Quick question... I've read on severl trivia sites that

    "Composer John Williams added to his opening score an homage to composer Joel McNeely's work from the score to "Shadows of the Empire", a book written to take place between Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back and Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi. It can be heard briefly during the battle scene over Coruscant."

    Well, right now I'm about halfway through my SOTE soundtrack, and thus far I haven't heard anything reminiscent of ROTS. Anyone have any idea where this may be located/which piece of SOTE music it's a tribute to?
  20. Wester547 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    YES! FINALLY! *Now* someone recognizes what I was complaining about a few months ago regarding the horrible tracking of the music in the final cut of ROTS.... it's just sloppily done.
  21. The-Tennis-Ball-Kid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2004
    star 3
    Those sites are mixed up. They probably heard about how "Night Skies" from SOTE was being distributed under the guise of being the opening track to ROTS; and somehow that got twisted into Williams making some sort of homage to it...

    Which he didn't.:p



    ttbk
  22. Zarm_Rkeeg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2003
    star 3
    Could be... conspiracy theorist that I am, I'll probably keep listening, though. ;)
  23. Jedi_Kyeju Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2003
    star 4
    "Anakin Crawling"

    Does anyone posess or know where I can find this cue? I know it's not on the score but I thought maybe someone had found it somewhere else. It starts right after Obi Wan leaves Mustafar, as Anakin's charred hand is rising into frame. I really like the beginning of it, very ominous.
  24. Indiana_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2004
    star 4
    I don't think the music was tracked for that part... It's just not what people were expecting. Most people were expecting the music to go with Anakin throwing stuff at Obi-Wan, like he would later do to Luke. And I don't understand the reason as to why Williams went back to Bespin with that part, either.
  25. Well_Of_Souls Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2001
    star 5
    Despite the silly and unwise tracking of music in ROTS (which I contend was much less painful than either instances in TPM or AOTC), I find ROTS's score to have a ton of great, borderline brilliant moments. I love the opening space battle music, especially the rousing use of the Rebel Fanfare as well as the fanfare as Obi-Wan leaps from his crashing ship in the hangar bay. I also love pretty much every use of the Force theme, especially it's usage during Obi-Wan's departure for Utapau. And the entirety of the Mustafar battle, sans the reuse of DOTF, is amazing action music that really works beautifully in the film.

    ROTS is a great score all around, IMO.
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