Reversed context, action, order over seperate movies

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by i_dont_know, Aug 12, 2005.

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  1. i_dont_know Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2005
    star 4
    Since episode 3 came out I've noticed both subtle and glaringly obvious character contrasts and "swap-arounds" between movies (both within the prequels and over the whole saga). I've posted some of them in the prequel forums, but this is probably a better place to expand on it.


  2. i_dont_know Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2005
    star 4
    sorry, i hit POST by mistake.


    The Ep3 and Ep6 Star Destroyer scenes- This Ep3 scene was more than just a visual "tribute" to ROTJ. It cleverly puts the Seperatists in place of the Rebels in many ways, the most obvious being that both this scene and the ROTJ climax are a trap by Sidous. In ROTJ, Sidious leaks plans to the rebels, and then stops them escaping with his Star Destroyers. In ROTS, Sidious is commanding the Seperatists through Grievous. But he knows that the "star-destroyer-prototypes" will stop them leaving. It is again a trap. Both scenes are also obviously set up to make each Skywalker his apprentice, but he only succeeds the first time. When he tries to turn Vader's son in ep6, in a trippy contrast to ep3, everything backfires.

    In Ep3, Vader thinks he is saving his father figure when he turns. Mace's death is the beginning of the end for the Jedi. In Ep6 he is truely saving his son when he turns back, and Sidious dies in a similar way to Mace. And, of course, the Jedi return.
    When you watch these two scenes with this in mind, it becomes very obvious in EP6 that Vader's expression beneath his mask (when looking at Luke being force-lightninged) must be similar to how he looks at Sidious in Ep3 (pity/ despair/ and thinking of his love for Padme). Similarly, the hate when he looks at the "assassin" Mace reflects how he is looking at Sidious beneath his mask at ROTJ's climax. Ironically, Sidious is finally displaying his power to both Skywalkers in these scenes, but the context and outcome is totally opposite.

    Anakin leaving Tatooine in episode 1 represents the beginning of his journey. I now see when I watch episode 1 that it was actually the Jedi who brought Anakin to Coruscant. It was totally Anakin's choice to go, but he had no control over where he would be trained. So what? you might think. But Coruscant is where Anakin meets Sidious in Ep1, and where he "sells his soul" in Episode 3. Leaving Tatooine was needed for him to become a Jedi, but was also the beginning of the end. ("I will come back and free you mom, I promise" is an ironic statement, because just before she dies he frees her from the Tusken Raiders). This thought made me realise a greater irony though - Leaving Tatooine seemed bad, but when he returns in Episode 2 it makes things 20 times worse. Basically, Anakin was screwed no matter what he did.


    Episode1/Episode3 reversals (moved):
    I'm pasting this topic from my prequel forum thread.

    ep1 opening scene - Naboo, ruled by Padme, a very unurbanised planet
    ep3 opening scene - Coruscant, "ruled" by sidious, the biggest city in the galaxy

    ep 1 opening - SUPREME CHANCELLOR Valorum HAS SENT 2 Jedi SECRETLY to NEGOTIATE. (They travel as ambassadors. They are not piloting. The Trade Federation do not know they are Jedi until a protocal droid points it out).
    ep 3 - 2 Jedi lead a DESPERATE MISSION to RESCUE the SUPREME CHANCELLOR. (They pilot Jedi fighters, regognisable to even droids. Everyone on board is expecting them).

    Ep1 opening - the jedi encounter no resistance boarding. the docking bay shield is down. They land smoothly. Obi-Wan's FIRST line (directly after they arrive): "I have a bad feeling about this" (spoken calmly).
    Ep3 opening - the Jedi take part in a huge battle before reaching the Seperatist ship. Obi-Wan: "Well have you noticed the shield is still up?" (docking bay shield). His LAST line before they crash-land: "Oh, I have a bad feeling about this!" (spoken kinda action-heroish).
    *I think it is kind of funny that Obi-Wan was sensing Sidious/the darkside in episode 1 ("something elsewhere... elusive"), when that is more what they had to fear in the Episode 3 setup. And it gives gives more meaning to the banter with Qui-gon: "Don't centre on your anxieties Obi-Wan, keep your focus here, and now, where it belongs." "But Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future..." "But not at the expense of the moment". It almost seems like Lucas is saying to enjoy Ep 1 for what it is and don't focus on the d
  3. i_dont_know Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2005
    star 4
    This one I thought I was imagining at first, but the more I think about it when I watch TPM, the more small details work for the theory. The relationship of Padme's two personas sets up a nice contrast to Sidious's two personas, and there is also great contrast in the way each character reveals their true self.
    They are both kidnapped due to invasion at the start of Episode 1 (Amidala) and ROTS (Palpitine). Early in TPM the "fake" Amidala and Padme are rescued by Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. Early in ROTS Palpitine (who is obviously Sidious) is rescued by Anakin and Obi-Wan, but his rescue is much more difficult.
    The 2 scenes that follow these are opposites.
    In Ep1, they leave for Coruscant, but the Trade Federation ship damages their small Nubian ship. R2-D2 saves the day, but they need to go to Tatooine to repair, where they discover Anakin.
    In contrast, the ROTS rescue leads to Anakin saving the day, and R2 freaking out - "Easy, R2!". Look at the contrast between how Palpitine looks at R2, and how Padme looks at R2 after they are saved. Where the ep1 characters flew their small ship against a Seperatist ship, heading for Coruscant, in ROTS Anakin is flying a Seperatist ship himself, back into Coruscant. Watch each scene with the other in mind and you'll probably see I'm not totally crazy. ;)
  4. i_dont_know Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2005
    star 4
  5. Darth_Pazuzu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2005
    star 4
    Wow! These are some really terrific insights into Lucas' storytelling techniques, and I must confess that there were quite a few of them I hadn't thought of before.
    With all due respect, i_dont_know, I truly believe your user name is a complete misnomer. "I will be watching your career with great interest!":D

    By the way, I've also been in the habit of triple-posting in the interest of bumping up my thread. But I just got a heads-up from MasterYogurt that this is a really good way to get oneself banned, so I'd be careful in the future!;)
    Keep up the good work, and I look forward to seeing more of your posts![face_peace]
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