PT Revisiting the prequels

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Pimpsy, Nov 1, 2012.

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  1. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    For whatever it's worth, the angels he's referring to are not like "angels" from Earth mythology. They are an alien race native to the Iego system. One appeared in the TCW episode "Mystery of a Thousand Moons" and they were described in Geonosis and the Outer Rim Worlds.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Dec 5, 2012
  2. Ambervikings91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2012
    star 2
    I agree with a few parts of the dialog, however more or less I think they are good, I enjoy watching them a ton.
  3. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    There's a certainly a lot of hammy acting from the big three. And some of the lines are ridiculously over the top. I've always wondered what people are smoking when they're praising acting and dialogue in the OT vs. PT. They're pretty much on the same level as far as I'm concerned. I guess people are more forgiving of cheesy lines as long as they're fun.
    Sitara likes this.
  4. Corran1138 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1
    I understand the awkwardness one feels when watching the PT. Some of the lines are awkward, especially in the Anakin/Padme romance. The problem with people who are disappointed with the PT is that they expected the exact same type of story as the OT. They wanted swashbuckling fun like ANH and ROTJ, with the same witty banter and fast paced story, without extensive politics or dialogue. The problem is, this isn't the story that Lucas had to tell.

    The PT is grand in scale. It isn't just a story about three characters and their development, but its about the fall of a society, and a government. Anakin then serves as a picture of what is happening in the broader galaxy. The fall of Anakin and the fall of the Republic are one in the same story. They mirror what can happen in reality to societies and individuals, as lust for power and personal desires overshadow that which is meant for the greater good.

    The fact that there is no central character in these films is irrelevant. To argue otherwise is to miss the entire point. I have heard many complaints that the lightsaber duels in these films aren't as personal, they are too grand in scale. Again, this is not a bad thing, it simply portrays a different type of story.

    If you look at the films in this way, they are brilliant. The story is well constructed, and the politics are intriguing. They relate to our contemporary world, and the temptation to give centralized government too much authority in times of crisis.

    No, you won't feel the same sense of adventure that you do in the original films. That's because the story is ultimately a tragedy. That doesn't make them worse films, it simply makes them different. And even though these movies aren't as intimate as the OT, I find the final confrontation between Anakin and Obi Wan to be the most emotionally engaging aspect of the entire saga.

    Just my 2 cents. I'm thinking about doing a lengthy youtube video defense of the prequel films.
  5. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    I don't think it's lost on many people that they are different kinds of stories. I don't know what you hope to accomplish making a video that defends one of the two types, or against whom. If it's to show people they are "missing the point", they probably already see the point but aren't entertained by it.
  6. Corran1138 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1
    If people can make such a big deal about why the prequels are so terrible online, why can't someone do the opposite? These films are unfairly criticized, to the point where when people find out I'm a Star Wars fan, they automatically assume that I hate the PT.
    minnishe likes this.
  7. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    Knock yourself out, but it likely won't change anyone's mind about them. Whether they're unfairly criticized or not is a matter of opinion.

    I made that same assumption until I started coming on these boards & saw that the PT actually had a fanbase.
  8. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    I'm guessing most people who watch or read reviews made after the fact aren't looking to be convinced, but are looking to see their prior attitudes confirmed.
  9. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    Pretty much. Not much point in filming a "defense" if you're just preaching to the choir.
    Count Yubnub likes this.
  10. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    It's not a prequel fanbase, it's Star Wars fans who also happen to like the prequels enough to accept them as part of the saga. Why does it have to be either "gushing" or "bashing" with no middle ground? I can enjoy the OT despite some flaws, so it's not a big leap for me enjoy the PT despite mostly similar flaws.

    And really, if everyone is hating the prequels, who's buying all these BluRay saga sets? There're not enough fans for the record breaking sales.
  11. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Hear hear! =D= I like Star Wars. OT AND PT and yes I saw the OT first, in theaters, as an adult (to counter the usual those who saw the OT 1st dislike the PT)
  12. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    There is a genuine fanbase. I thought the PT was pretty much universally hated, but it turns out there are people who love them. That's a fanbase, and that's what I was referring to.
  13. Lady_Skywalker87 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 3
    Well I consider myself of the PT fanbase. :p In all seriousness though as I said before in another thread, the Prequels are in many aspects to me a homage to golden age of cinema. Those movies are often criticized by average movie goers now days because they the don't meet the standards of a good movies today...Most people find them boring because usually nothing visually going on, the characters appear cold and unreliable ect. I believe that part of reason so many dislike the PT is because people have become so unconsciously accustomed to the more "what you is what you get" format of today people tend to reject anything that fits that form. The OT pretty much that mold outside Vader turning out to be looks father; they are just fun movies. Most people are just uncomfortable with seeing human truth on screen, they just want to be entertained and most OT fans expected the PT to clean fun.

    Is PT perfect? Hell no...but it brought back the roots of film making IMO.
    The Supreme Chancellor and Samnz like this.
  14. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Just goes to show one can't believe everything one sees, hears, or reads about on the Internet and why those of who do like the PT almost have to make noise over - we DO exist, despite contrary opinion cloaked as fact.

    And we're not (all) blind gushers, either.
    Last edited by Valairy Scot, Dec 6, 2012
  15. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    No thank you. I'd rather not revisit them. I don't even want to hate them anymore. I'd rather just forget them. And now that Star Wars movies will be an indefinitely-long continuing series like Star Trek or James Bond, I can. The prequels will simply be the Star Trek V or Die Another Day of Star Wars movies - something that was bad, but can be forgotten about, and won't interrupt one's enjoyment of the series as a whole.
  16. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Then, I have to ask (and I don't mean this antagonistically): why are you here?

    Do you imagine that posting in a forum dedicated to the prequels is going to help you forget them?

    :confused:
  17. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Unless they reboot the franchise, I don't see how half of the existing saga (or even 1/3 of the Skywalker story) can be erased. Sure, you can play the mind trick on yourself, but people will still buy complete saga sets. Anyone who's watching them now for the first time will probably be starting with TPM. Not to mention TCW and all the related media.
  18. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    For good or bad the prequels are very memorable films. I got a PT hater to admit that there is iconic imagery in the PT, despite his qualms with it.
  19. Force.Child Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2012
    In a sense I felt that too. Not a whole lot because I love star wars and there is something about them that I will always love! ^_^ I think it was just in certain scenes... I felt it more in the beginning of ROTS and a little bit in TPM. I think the whole issue was the diolauge just didn't flow properly.
  20. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Yeah, there was a guy at work who always sounded like he hated all of the prequels. And yet, when I started asking specific questions, it was not so simple:
    - What about the duel in TPM? - Yeah, that looked awesome.
    - And JW's soundtrack? - I loved it!
    - And Ian McDiarmid, don't you think he did a great job? etc...

    So it turns out there's a whole lot of elements he did like, it's just was hard for him to shake off a general feeling of disappointment and admit there was something worthwhile in the prequels.
  21. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    But the problem for me is that there are also plenty of awkward dialogue in the OT, including the plotline for the Leia/Han romance. Both trilogies seemed to share similar flaws. But the difference seemed to lie in the styles for the two trilogies. The style of the OT seemed to be straight from a Saturday morning cartoon from the 1970s. The style of the PT seemed to be a lot more formal.
  22. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    The OT had some formal stuff but less so. I guess the audience is more forgiving of corny dialogue as long as it's fun. Also, the underdogs are easier to like than formal politicians.
  23. themetresgained Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2013
    star 4
    I watched ANH and then TPM last night and was struck by how well TPM complements ANH.

    Here are my thoughts on TPM and why I don't think it deserves the flak it cops.

    Good bits:
    • Anakin’s discovery of the Force mirrors Luke’s in ANH: both leave Tatooine to fulfil their destiny as Jedi
    • Political intrigue, a land battle, a space battle, and Sith: multi-faceted fighting feels like a more holistic victory, though I suppose the ending's more similar to ROTJ than ANH
    • Reflections on love, kindness and friendship: Anakin and his mother; Anakin and Padme's friendship, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan; Amidala bridging the gap with the Gungans
    • Destroying the control ship mirrors destroying the Death Star
    • Artoo, Threepio and Palpatine all have well-sketched out origins
    • Amidala is completely badass, really inspiring for young women (she was for me), and you can kind of see that Leia got her political prowess from her blood and not just being raised by Bail Organa
    • Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor were excellent casting
    • There’s several anchors to the OT: the droids, Palpy, Yoda in his prime, Tatooine
    • New bits: the Jedi Order and the Jedi Temple (already you can see aspects of the hubris which caused the fall of the Order), Coruscant, the beginning of the disintegration of the Old Republic
    Bad bits:
    • Jar Jar is far too slapsticky though the subplot with the Gungans and the Naboo was good
    • Anakin's dialogue is awful, though I don’t blame Jake Lloyd
    • Midichlorians
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  24. Darth Dru Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2013
    star 1
    The PT was ok. RotS was arguably the best of the entire saga with perhaps the exception of ESB. Some ways it could've been better though would be to have used Liam Neeson more, and flush out Qui-Gon's character. Casting Liam as Qui-Gon was genius, he had such awesome potential, but he was ultimately wasted as a character. I also thought the midichlorian thing was a bad idea.
  25. Jcuk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Quote: Finally, I had forgotten thanks to the overly serious tone of the prequels. That ANH And the Original Trilogy can be quite funny. Obviously, it's not a comedy, but its never afraid of letting you have a good time. The needling of Han Solo by Princess Leia ("Either I'm going to kill her or I'm beginning to like her!") has some elements of the quick, sharp banter of earlier Hollywood productions and the chemistry between Ford and Fisher works extremely well (even if Luke, in this instalment, thinks he's the man for his....sister) Or the simple but endearingly funny interplay between R2D2 and the snobbish arse C3PO. The film never takes itself too seriously that it is oblivious to what it is: a homage to those serials that Lucas loved so much, a sci-fi adventure with some philosophical elements folded in. The prequels seem so dour in comparison, lifeless, like looking at a wax museum imitation of an organic life form.
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