Senate Revolution in the Muslim World

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Lowbacca_1977, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

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    Turkey, I think, has been waiting for this. They've taking every step they can with Syria, and it just keeps getting worse and they keep stepping up. And as Turkey is housing Syrian opposition... this was coming.
  2. Mr44 VIP

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    Of course, Turkey and Israel have had a diplomatic and military partnership for a long time. The relationship has been strained for a little while, but remember last year when SecState Clinton personally delivered a message from the Obama administration to both Turkey and Israel to work out their differences and restore in full their prior partnership? Not even focusing exclusively on the region, but going back decades, Turkey has always been a "back door" for NATO as a way for NATO to do things with a degree of plausible deniability.However, as an uphill factor for Turkey, it's not a two way street. I'm not sure Turkey is capable of becoming a true regional power independent of influence from the US and/or Israel. Even with strained relations, it's not a stretch to think that Israeli intelligence is involved with this latest action.
  3. Ghost Chosen One

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  4. Mr44 VIP

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    Yeah, along those lines of what I pointed above, it seems like Turkey is using the Firefinder radar, which is a ground radar system which pinpoints the spot where artillery has been fired from. Now, it's not a uniquely Israeli system. Both the US, the UK, and others use the system, (the company being a joint US-French weapons producer.) but the IDF uses it extensively. Being a member of NATO, Turkey would have access to it, but it's interesting to think that a joint US-French system, used extensively by the IDF is being used to direct Turkish counter-battery fire against Syria.
  5. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

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    Well counter-battery radar is hardly anything new, and it shouldn't be any surprise that Israel is the most prolific user of the radar considering what they're facing.
  6. Ghost Chosen One

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    Turkey's Parliament has authorized use of military force against Syria, including the deployment of Turkish troops if neccessary:

    http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-authorizes-military-operations-syria-115920854.html

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/04/world/meast/syria-civil-war/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

    Turkey's government is saying this is not a declaration of war, just to enable them to defend and counter against any attacks from Syrian territory in the future, but it's still a rather big step towards war and foreign intervention.



    Iran is also seeing unrest as their currency collapses from economic sanctions and mismanagement, protesters seem to have had enough of the Iranian government:

    http://news.yahoo.com/iran-police-watch-currency-protests-105710607--finance.html
  7. Mr44 VIP

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    No, no you're missing my point, A_R. You're correct. Basic Counter-Battery radar isn't anything new. There are lots of versions, from basic models to more advanced versions, of which lots of countries have. The FireFinder is a specific model of such radar. It's quite possible that the name has entered popular lexicon, much like Escalator, or Xerox has, or maybe accounts are simply misnaming such systems. But it's like pointing out that fighter jets have been around for quite a while. But there are different connotations if Turkey, for example, attacked Syrian ground targets while using NATO supplied surplus Vietnam era F-4 Phantoms, as opposed to attacking Syrian targets while using the latest example of the F/A-18 SuperHornet to do so. That's more what I was getting at. Add to the complexity of the issue if the systems were actually supplied by Israel... (of which it's not been specifically said that Israel supplied them, so that's mere speculation, but it would make sense)
  8. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

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    Mar 26, 2001
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    How does all this impact Turkey's membership in NATO and the mutual defense doctrine?

    Could this draw in NATO at large?
  9. Ghost Chosen One

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    It's possible. Turkey already warned them after Syria shot down a Turkish plan this summer. Now Turkey's Parliament has authorized use of military force (including troop deployment if necessary), NATO held an emergency meeting on Wednesday (decided to just condemn it for now), and Russia and China joined the rest of the United Nations at last in condemning Syria.

    I think the third time will be the last straw.
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  10. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    That, or the 2nd time will be the straw and they just need some time to roll across the border. :p
  11. Ghost Chosen One

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    Turkey: we're "not far" from war

  12. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

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  13. Mr44 VIP

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    It looks like the IDF just shot down some sort of UAV which was operating within the Southern part of Israel. It wasn't armed, and its flight characteristics matched that of an intelligence gathering drone. The country of origin hasn't been announced, except that an IDF spokesman ruled out that it didn't originate from Gaza. Given the current situation, it would make most sense if the drone was Syrian, but the geography is all wrong and UAV's don't have long ranges. Egypt perhaps?
  14. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    That, and I'd hope the IDF would be more on the ball than letting an unidentified aircraft casually fly the length of their country :p I guess, Egypt? Or maybe Jordan. Rich and stable, and within range.
  15. Ghost Chosen One

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    It could even be American, to see if they're really preparing for war or not. Allies spy on each other all the time.
  16. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Ehh...the kind of spying we do on Israel isn't really drone spying. We're not going to war with them; we're hoping to influence their political processes and stance towards their neighbors.
  17. Ghost Chosen One

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    I meant to see if Israel was preparing missiles to strike Iran.

    We've caught Israeli spies in the highest levels of the Pentagon, trying to learn what our response would be if Israel attacked Iran.

    So it wouldn't be unheard of. This is actually a lot less risky than what Israel did to us.
    Last edited by Darth-Ghost, Oct 6, 2012
  18. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    I suppose so; just don't think we'd be using a drone when there's way more deniable ways to spy on an ally.
  19. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

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    Seems like a two-way street in that regard.
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  20. Ghost Chosen One

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  21. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Oof. I know Lebanon is going to have one hell of a good day when the Assads go bye-bye. Syria is a big part of why their civil war went on as long as it did.
    Summer Dreamer likes this.
  22. Ghost Chosen One

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    Jordan has foiled a major terror plot against Western diplomats in its country. The terrorists seem to have come from Syria:
    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/10/201210220377295980.html


    Syria just keeps infecting and slowly bleeding the region... can we just get rid of Assad and his inner circle, and seize their WMD's, already?? NATO needs to take action, before it gets even worse.
  23. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

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  24. Mr44 VIP

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    A_R, the ironic thing is that the Economist published an article back in 2003 about how the US had to invade Iraq and it used just about the same justifications. In fact, our friends at the Economist might as well have just copied and pasted their old Iraq article and simply clipped any references to Iraq and replaced them with Syria. Of course, we all know that for some reason, it's ok to call for invasion, and in some cases actually carry it out-from the Balkans, to the Sudan, to Libya, to Syria, and everywhere in between, as long as the country isn't Iraq.

    The Economist is very good at setting up justifications for things, but very poor in following through with the same rationale if the action is actually carried out. It's what makes the editors over there so wacky.
  25. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

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    I'd say there's one big difference between Syria today and Iraq in 2003. While sectarian divisions existed in Iraq at the time, they weren't at the point where the different factions were out to slaughter each other. If the Iraqi Shi'ites had revolted and Saddam did what Assad is doing now, then that would probably have been a good reason to intervene.
    Last edited by Alpha-Red, Oct 23, 2012
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