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Senate Revolution in the Muslim World

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Lowbacca_1977, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

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    Apr 25, 2004
    Well France is busy in Mali, and didn't Britain recently cut back its military spending severely as part of its austerity measures? Meanwhile Germany believes in having a military but not in using it, and who knows what the rest of NATO thinks of this.

    By the way what's the reason we haven't intervened yet? Is it because American public opinion has turned all isolationist after Iraq? Or do we genuinely think that the Syrian rebels aren't yet trustworthy partners? Do we think Assad's threat to use chemical weapons against intervening countries is credible? Or maybe we'd just rather have Assad in power and in control of his chemical arsenal rather than letting those weapons get loose in the chaos of a security meltdown?
     
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  2. Violent Violet Menace

    Violent Violet Menace Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 11, 2004
    As Darth Boba guessed at earlier, special forces and intelligence is probably in there already. My guess is the same. And my hunch is that the situation is one of two scenarios:

    1. Western intelligence and special forces are helping the rebels already and have decided that the best and least costly course of action is to just aid the rebels with supplies and information, and only participate themselves on a small scale when necessary.

    2. Western intelligence and special forces are helping the rebels already, but have long ago reached the conclusion that they ultimately aren't guys you want to have in power later anyway, so they're waiting it out and aiding the rebels only enough for the two sides to kill each other as much as possible, before entering into the scene in the final stages.
     
  3. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

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    Apr 25, 2004
    Possibly a stupid question here, but when special forces are sent covertly into a country, do they wear uniforms? Or do they basically dress and fight like guerrillas?
     
  4. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    Basically it's unit preference; it varies.
     
  5. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

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    Apr 25, 2004
    So the Geneva Conventions regarding uniformed soldiers doesn't apply to Special Forces? Or even if it did I can't imagine that a bunch of Navy SEALs behind enemy lines would want to wear something that says "Look at me, I'm an enemy! Come and get me!"
     
  6. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    SF from all countries pretty well do what they like based on mission requirements; it's important to remember that when the Convention was drafted soldiers of the skill level and mission purpose descriptive of Special Forces frankly did not exist.
     
  7. Juliet316

    Juliet316 37X Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Also, if they're doing undercover intelligence work, I would imagine they would not want the Assad regime to be able to identify them, certainly not with what would probably be noticeable uniforms.
     
  8. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    Yeah, I'd agree. Plus wearing the same general clothes as the guys you're training/fighting with promotes solidarity.
     
  9. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    What exactly is the situation in Algeria right now? With the hostages? Is this linked to Libyan terrorists, Mali terrorists, both, or something different altogether?
     
  10. Violent Violet Menace

    Violent Violet Menace Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 11, 2004
    The news up here has mentioned the possible connection to Mali, but nothing about Libya.
     
  11. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Well, Mali is problem basically because that's where all the guns in Libya went, right?
     
  12. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    The hostage siege ended yesterday, FWIW. 19 hostages died. Granted, 110 or so lived, but still, pretty sloppy military response from the Algerians.
     
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  13. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

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    Apr 25, 2004
  14. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    Ouch. Saw an article yesterday saying it was nineteen.
     
  15. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 19, 2007
    Didn't the hundred number just refer to foreigners? I was under the impression that there were several hundred Algerian workers, in addition to the aforementioned hundred, that also made it out.
     
  16. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    Haven't really heard much about local workers-I haven't been following this much TBH. I'd assume there were plenty there, though.
     
  17. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

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    Sep 19, 2000
    Not everyone does it like the French.
     
  18. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 19, 2007
    Even with the casualties, I'd say that's still a pretty significant number that got out in one piece.
     
  19. MarcusP2

    MarcusP2 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 10, 2004
    Edit: This post became irrelevant when I had this thread open for 10 minutes without refreshing...
     
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  20. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    I'd agree..but the Algerians had the time advantage due to the terrorists deliberately creating a static situation. The last major standoff of this sort I can remember was the Shining Path terrorists in Peru during the 90s when they took over the Japanese Embassy. The Peruvian military chose the best course, which was to lock the place down and wait out the terrorists inside. There's exceedingly little advantage to the terrorists in that situation-they'll have diminishing food and water supplies, have to remain continually alert, etc.

    Just think waiting them out would have resulted in considerably fewer hostage deaths, IMO.
     
  21. MarcusP2

    MarcusP2 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 10, 2004
    Unless the terrorists decided to call the bluff and detonate their explosives and/or murder the hostages (several of which they had apparently already killed).
     
  22. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    Sure, but that they hadn't already done so after four days. FWIW, these situations where the armed force goes in soon after the situation begins nearly always result in hostage deaths. Ones where they wait out the terrorists frequently don't.
     
  23. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
  24. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    It'll probably be a few more days before we know for certain what exactly happened. Although I can't say I'm terrifically surprised-the country is going to pieces with no clear end game, and especially with Islamic fundamentalist portions of the overall insurgent landscape making fairly serious inroads against the Syrian military lately, an Israeli airstrike on a place they view as dangerous to themselves shouldn't be a surprise. And given that Syria is known to possess chems...everyone remember the paranoia about Scuds with chemical warheads being launched from Iraq against Israeli civilian populations during the Gulf War? Sure, it never panned out, but Israel Is probably freaking out at the idea of terrorists gaining the capability to cause them grievous harm.
     
  25. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    The U.S. is saying it was an arms convoy from Syria to Hezbollah in Lebanon, a shipment of antiaircraft missiles. Syria is saying it was a military research center (most likely a chemical weapons factory) that the rebels had been trying to take. Both make sense for why Israel would bomb them, but I don't think the target matters anymore...




    Syria, Iran, and Hezbollah are harshly condemning Israel... and so is Russia, who are in military alliance with Syria. How could they retaliate? I do not think Syria would militarily retaliate against Israel... unless Assad feels like he's going down anyways, and might as well go down in a blaze of glory against Israel. So how else could they retaliate? Sanctions and blockade against Israel?