PT Rewriting the Prequels...

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by swrescripted, Jan 23, 2013.

Moderators: Bazinga'd
  1. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    [face_laugh]

    Peace is found by not getting all pissy over the idea that other people disagree with you about a set of films.

    But thank you for sharing.
  2. Samnz Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 2
    ....by reading and writing on a PT discussion board. Great escape, I'm impressed.
    Last edited by Samnz, Feb 17, 2014
  3. redlightning Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2014
    star 1
    I know I would change the origin of the Clone Wars and Anakin as Darth Vader.

    The Clone Wars originate when a Republic military experiment being overseen by some of the Jedi goes wrong (sabatoge by the future Emperor who was once a Jedi knight) and produces monstrous mutant clones which wreak havoc across the galaxy like locusts and have wiped out entire worlds due to their devastation.

    General Ben "Obi-Wan" Kenobi, a Jedi with the unique double role of being Force sensitive and serving in the Republic military, is assigned to protect the peaceful world of King Bail Organa of Alderaan. The planet is invaded or he is shot down over Tatooine where he meets the Skywalker brothers, Owen and Anakin who are refugees from a distant rich farming world. Eighteen year old Anakin seeking to get revenge for the deaths of so many he knows joins the war effort and becomes a pilot for the Republic. Obi-Wan's Jedi apprentice as well.

    Eventually the two become best friends and share many adventures together. Anakin meets and marries the late princess of Alderaan Lady Arcadia. While on search for a legendary Jedi relic like the Kaiburr crystal at the insistence of Obi-Wan (a wild goose chase to him) located on a volcanic planet, Anakin accidentally gets caught up in a volcanic explosion and is scarred (I never liked the idea of there being a duel of a molten lava pit with Obi-Wan)

    He is rescued by the individual who becomes the Emperor, a dark sorcerer, nothing called a Sith or Dark Jedi and made into a cyborg. Having seen his injuries at the hands of the Jedi and their foolish tales (and the idea that Obi-Wan recklessly led him here), he seeks out revenge on all of them and joins the Dark Side and hunts them down as a mercenary for the Empire, slowly gaining his rank in power in servitude before becoming in charge of the Imperial Navy.
  4. darthirons Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2010
    One thing I would've done is get rid of Count Dooku. Have Darth Maul survive TPM, easily interchangeable with Dooku, and would be interesting to see him fight Yoda. Also simpler to have Anakin killing him to take his place beside Darth Sidious.

    I think in hindsight George would've let Darth Maul survive, but he wasn't to know how popular he would be.
  5. bstnsx704 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2013
    star 3
    Nah, I'd rather not get rid of Dooku. Too interesting a character to do that. There's so many layers to him, and Sir Christopher Lee did an excellent job bringing him to life. Despite his limited screentime Dooku remains one of Star Wars' most iconic characters to me.
  6. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    Maul and Dooku aren't interchangeable. The two characters are very different and that's why they both have a place. It's simply that neither character was handled the way they should've been.

    100% agree with you, @bstnsx704, well said! =D=
  7. darthirons Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Storywise they are interchangeable with a bit of tweaking. Maul could be behind the Clones, leading the separatists, and fall at the hands of Anakin. I just think that at times there were too many characters underdeveloped and handled badly as you say. Obi-Wan would be after revenge for Qui-Gon, it would be a nice reveal when Maul turned up alive in AOTC, it would just make the story flow better giving a character (Maul) better development as he would be in all three films.
    I don't dislike Dooku, just that for storytelling purposes he wasn't needed.
    Last edited by darthirons, Feb 18, 2014
  8. Oberst Hans Landa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2014
    star 2
    I didn't know where to post this and I'm almost sure it's not worth a new thread, so I'm gonna go ahead and post it here.

    Am I the only Star Wars fan that was very confused by the whole "I'm Queen Amidala"-"No, I'm Queen Amidala"-"No, no. She's my decoy. I'm the Queen"-"No, this is my decoy's decoy. I'm the real Queen"-thing in The Phantom Menace?. And please, don't call me a hater or a troll. I know what Lucas was trying to do, but it was sorta clumsily written. :confused:I was so confused about that. I don't know. Any thoughts on this?

    I'd have written that out of the prequels too if you wanna know the truth.
  9. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    To me Dooku and Maul are nothing alike and Maul is virtually useless and both Dooku and Maul were under utilised and mishandled.
  10. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    What's confusing? Padme was born Padme Naberrie. She added Amidala upon becoming Queen. She had people who would pose as her whenever there was a threat to her life. Sabe is first seen when Nute is in the palace talking to her and Bibble. Nute doesn't know Padme's first name, just her last. Once in Palpatine's office, Padme resumes being the Queen and changes again once they get back to Naboo. Kill or capture the decoy, the real deal is protected from harm. Pretty simple if you ask me. Qui-gon and Obi-wan knew about the change due to the Force.
  11. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    In my fantasy PT script, both Dooku and Maul appear in all three films, but Dooku is the leader of the Separatists and not a force user. Anakin defeats Maul in order to assume the role of Sidious's apprentice after he turns to the dark side.
  12. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    Have Amidala and the Naboo army try to shoot Maul so that people don't wonder they didn't do just that.
  13. Lulu_Mars Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 1
    Star Wars wouldn't be Star Wars if people didn't wonder why *insert name* didn't just *insert action*.
    For example, why didn't the Death Star personnel send a squad of stormtroopers to meet Luke and co when they got out of the trash compactor? Why didn't they just blow up Yavin? Why didn't they send more TIE fighters to defeat the Rebels? Why didn't Luke just kill the wampa and stay in the cave? Why didn't the stormtroopers shoot at their targets? Why didn't Vader let Luke kill the Emperor?

    There's a reasonable explanation for most everything, but part of the fun is figuring it out for yourself.
    FRAGWAGON and Jarren_Lee-Saber like this.
  14. Amiga_500_User Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2014
    I tip my hat at you, Sir, Mr. H.S.P. ;-)

    Well, here are my suggestions concerning THE PHANTOM MENACE*:

    1.) Get rid of the boring "political" subplot and change the "trade blockade" story to something interesting. And easier to understand.
    2.) Don't let the Jedi's use the lightsabers until like 30 minutes (at least) into the movie. Less is more.
    3.) Let Jar Jar talk like a normal person and don't let him act like he's in a 1920's slapstick movie. Let him be an interesting guide.
    4.) Get rid of the Gungans (and the big fish).
    5.) Make the droid army more powerful (and therefore more interesting) instead of being just cannon fodder.
    6.) No need for Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan is enough.
    7.) Let Natalie Portman act instead of just letting her sit around doing nothing.
    8.) Do not explain The Force. Please. There's really no need to.
    9.) Replace Anakin with an older actor or recast him with a superior child actor. In the latter case, less screen time.
    10.) Let somebody (either Obi-Wan, Anakin or Amidala) be at the center of the movie as the protagonist.
    11.) The Gungans vs. Droid army scenes are solid, but again, less is more: Don't fill the screen with like gazillion flashing lasers lights. Instead focus on smaller groups fighting each other. Maybe introduce supporting characters. And make the droids real adversaries: strong, powerful and deadly.
    12.) Give Darth Maul something to say during the final light saber duel.
    13.) Replace the movie's opening with something thrilling.
    14.) More sets, less digital fake sets.
    15.) Improve Watto's character. And no pointless bets.
    16.) Don't let Anakin accidentially save the day. Let the audience feel like something is at stake.
    17.) If you stick with the (unimaginative) trade blockade storylone, show at least some of the negative effects on Naboo (instead of always showing a shiny-bloomy city)
    18.) Show us some Naboo civilians.
    19.) Get rid of the other child actors in supporting roles.
    20.) Anakin built C3-PO? No.
    21.) Give Samuel L. Jackson a character that he is comfortable with or more in line with his previous work.


    *And sorry if some of those points have already been said. :D

    Please keep in mind that I do not want to "bash" or "hate on" the prequel movies. I'm just listing things that I personally did not like (at all) about the PT and that I think can easily be improved.
  15. The Star Wars Archivist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2013
    star 3
    1. Politics have always had a big role in Star Wars. Why take it out for the prequels?
    2. Why is that? I thought the majority liked Lightsaber fights.
    3. The Gungans do have an obvious accent. If I meet a foreigner with an accent, I don't tell them to stop speaking like that. You're right that Jar Jar does add some tedious slapstick elements.
    4. Yes. Because another army is going to pop up out of nowhere. As for the big fish, I don't see how they took away from the story. Did you have a problem with the wampa too?
    5. I wouldn't say they were cannon fodder. They would have won if Anakin hadn't destroyed their computer connection. You say they were weak, we'll yes. Realistically, it's difficult to produce hundreds of top notch droids.
    6. Qui Gon was a loved character and gave us a new 'gray jedi' element that we haven't really experienced.
    7. She fulfilled her role for the movie.
    8. Maybe not, it's down to perception.
    9. Jake Lloyd wasn't the best, but he looked more like Anakin would and for the most part performed averagely.
    10. I don't feel that really takes away from the film, but if that's what you think.
    11. I'm guessing you didn't like the Hoth battle either. That one had a lot if not more lasers
    12. It's not his job to speak. It's his job to be a silent brute.
    13. Sometimes it's hard to begin with lots of action.
    14. I didn't see the digital sets as bad, but again, if you think so.
    15. The bet was pointless? How was Anakin going to leave? Watto fulfilled his role. We just need to know he's a grumpy salesman.
    16. Alright.
    17. Ok.
    18. I don't see it as that important.
    19. Ok.
    20. Why not? At least it connects the saga.
    21. What do you recommend Samuel L. Jackson do then?
    Last edited by The Star Wars Archivist, Feb 26, 2014
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  16. sharkymcshark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2013
    star 2

    Different concept though - the wampa captured Luke, and was the reason that Han Solo risked his life going out into the storm to save Luke. It allowed for the expression of character development.

    The big fish did nothing except looking like big fish in the background and giving Jar Jar another reason to jabber on like a moron. The presence of the big fish didn't allow the characters or the plot to develop in any tangible way, you take them away and you lose nothing. I'm not saying that's actually a reason to take them away, but it makes them massively different on a base level to the wampa.

    A better comparison would be taking out the sequence where R2D2 gets swallowed by whatever is under the water on Dagobah.

    There was hardly a 'gray jedi' element. Not listening to the council doesn't make you a gray jedi if you still end up spouting the same bland Jedi platitudes as everyone else.

    No where near as many. Also, it wasn't as random as the Battle of the Plains either.


    It is exceedingly important and is one of the missteps that the film makes - you never see any effect on the citizenry of Naboo. All you've got is Sio Bibbles transmission, which is then rubbished by Obi Wan as probably being fake and a trap anyway. It's like if in ANH the Death Star hadn't blown up Alderaan before it was bearing down on the Yavin IV moon. Fundamentally the same story but you lose a great deal of the threat of the antagonists (which here outside of Maul is basically comedy relief robots)


    "At least it connects the saga" is not a viable reason to do something as character defining as having Darth Vader build the audience insertion character for A New Hope in his childhood.


    Just imagine that casting meeting.

    "Well we've got this character, Mace Windu. He's really big on the Jedi Council, one of the most powerful and experienced Jedi. Who can bring the serenity, control, detachment and patience required to be portrayed in this role? Ah yes, fetch me Samuel L Jackson!"

    [IMG]
    Last edited by sharkymcshark, Feb 26, 2014
    Cryogenic likes this.
  17. rocknroll41 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2013
    star 1
    first of all, I'd like to make it clear that I think the prequels should've NEVER been made...but if they had to happen, this is how I would've done them:

    Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace
    The opening crawl explains that Obi-Wan Kenobi is a recently graduated Jedi Knight who is sent to Alderaan to investigate the murders of the world's King and Queen. We then see his Jedi ship, which like in the real prequels is meant to look like a small Star Destoyer, being chased over Alderaan by a small ship that looks similar to theTantive IV (this is meant to mirror the opening of the original trilogy). As the two ships enter the atmosphere, Obi-Wan attempts to use the force to find a way to escape the situation, but becomes hesitant and is unable to concentrate. This leads him to being shot down into the rain-forest below. The pilot of the enemy ship, who is revealed to be a dark force-sensitive named Maul, then lands beside the wreck and chases Obi-Wan on foot through the trees. Again, Obi-Wan attempts to use the force to find a way to escape, but again becomes hesitant and is unable to concentrate. This leads him to falling while swinging on a vine and is therefore captured by Maul.

    Obi-Wan is then taken by Maul to a Separatist fortress that is hidden deeper within the rain-forest, where he sees that they're building a self-piloting droid fleet and are therefore likely planning an invasion. He then has his lightsaber taken away from him and is placed in a jail cell. There, he meets his inmate, a smuggler named Anakin Skywalker, who agrees to help Obi-Wan escape if he in turn helps him get to his ship, The Malevolence,which he said he left at Theed Palace. Though Obi-Wan dislikes Anakin for his stereotypical smuggler attitude, he realizes that he needs help both escaping from the jail cell and reaching Theed Palace to meet with the Queen to discuss the possible invasion and it's connection with the murders, and therefore agrees to Anakin's deal. They escape the jail and throughout their journey across the rain-forest have disagreements with each other due to their vastly different personalities. At one point, while swimming through a lake, they are chased by a sea creature. Just as it seems like they are about to be eaten, Obi-Wan uses a Jedi mind-trick to make the sea creature freeze for a moment until a larger one comes along to eat. This buys Obi-Wan and Anakin enough time to swim across the rest of the lake.

    Later that night, at a camp fire, Anakin asks Obi-Wan how he was able to stop the sea monster, and Obi-Wan explains to him what the Jedi are as well as the mystics of the force. This fascinates Anakin, and leads him and Obi-Wan to respecting each other more. However, Obi-Wan goes on to explain that he only became a Jedi Knight very recently and is rather weak in the force. When Anakin asks why this is, Obi-Wan says he doesn't feel comfortable talking about it at the moment and the two go to sleep. The next day, they reach Theed Palace, and Obi-Wan requests to see the new Queen, who is the only child of the King and Queen that were murdered recently. Instead, he is met by Duke Bail Organa, who explains that Queen Padme Amidala ran away a few nights after her parents were killed due to protests from citizens that felt she would not be a good Queen due to her young age. Suddenly, Maul arrives at the Palace in search of Obi-Wan and Anakin. He finds them and begins force-choking them both, when suddenly he is shot in the arm by a masked female figure in the distance.

    This buys Obi-Wan and Anakin enough time to escape. They join up with the female figure and the three of them escape on Anakin's ship, The Malevolence. Maul then steals a royal ship and chases them into the sky, but using his impressive piloting skills, Anakin manages to shoot Maul down as The Malevolence escapes into space. Obi-Wan is extremely impressed by Anakin's skills, but before he can say so, the female figure removes her mask and reveals herself to be none other than Padme Amidala herself. Obi-Wan and Anakin are both impressed by her courage as well as her beauty. She then requests that she be taken to the Republic capital of Coruscant to speak with the Chancellor over the situation and how it seems to relate to the recently-formed Separatist organization. Both Obi-Wan and Anakin agree to the request and set course for Coruscant.

    Later, while Padme is in a different room, Obi-Wan expresses his amazement at Anakin for being able to escape from Maul like that and says that he believes he is very strong in the force and should consider being trained as a Jedi. Anakin asks Obi-Wan if he could train him, but Obi-Wan says he wouldn't feel comfortable doing so because he is not a true Jedi, but rather the clone of one named Ben (his name is a serial number: OB-1, Kenobi). He says that he is the only Clone Jedi thus far, a failed experiment who all Jedi Masters refused to train except for one called Yoda, who Obi-Wan describes as having "the greatest heart of them all." Anakin then asks if he ever met the real Ben, to which Obi-Wan says that he hadn't and didn't know anything about. Padme then walks into the room and expresses sorrow for the fact that her parents are dead as well as how her citizens dislike her and may soon be invaded by the Separatists. The two men then try to comfort her and it becomes clear that a love triangle exists between the three of them.

    Later on, The Malevolence arrives on Coruscant, a monumental city-planet that amazes all three of them. Padme has her meeting with the recently-appointed Chancellor Palpatine, who coincidentally became the new Republic leader around the time her parents were murdered. She explains the situation and asks him to hold a conference in the Senate for her so that she can try to convince the Republic to gather a volunteer army to come back to Alderaan with her in order to prevent a possible Separatist invasion. Palpatine says the Republic cannot help her due to the fact that their is no evidence that the threat on Alderaan is indeed the Separatists, and says the Republic has many other serious issues to attend to. While he acts sympathetic, it's clear to the audience that he is sinister and does not want to help Padme for personal reasons. Meanwhile, a Jedi council member from the Jedi homeworld of Ossus named Qui-Gon Jin arrives to assist Obi-Wan after the council had detected his ship crash from earlier.

    Obi-Wan is a bit agitated by the help due to his tension with the other Jedi, but Qui-Gon insists that he has come to respect Obi-Wan and wishes to help him develop his force abilities. He also explains that through the force he was able to learn that Obi-Wan was in need of a new lightsaber, and gives him one. Obi-Wan then shows it to Anakin and introduces it as "the weapon of a Jedi Knight." Anakin ignites it and this marks our first film-chronological ignition of the lightsaber. Padme then returns to inform the others that the Republic won't help them and says that they must return to Alderaan alone to see if she can form an army through other means. When they return to Alderaan, she gives a passionate speech to her people to convince some of them to volunteer as her fleet using the planet's royal ships. She also flirtingly appoints Anakin as the fleet's leader, which makes Obi-Wan feel a bit uncomfortable due to him also having some feelings for her.

    As the fleet is preparing, Obi-Wan pulls Qui-Gon aside to ask him if he ever met the real Ben Kenobi, to which he says he has and describes him as a great, wholesome person who would've liked Obi-Wan. This then leads Obi-Wan to asking Qui-Gon if he knew of Ben's past and where he is from, but Qui-Gon says he doesn't know of such details. This saddens Obi-Wan, but Qui-Gon assures him that he will find the answers to all of his questions someday when the time is right. Suddenly, the droid fleet arrives and Anakin and the new Alderaan fleet take to the skies. As the battle in the air begins, Bail Organa takes his protocol droid C-3P0 and puts him in a closet where he can be safe. 3P0 is then comically harassed by other droids in the room until they are scared off by an astromech droid. 3P0 then thanks the little, fierce driod, who reveals that his name is R2-D2, and the two of them begin to bond.

    Meanwhile, Obi-Wan informs Qui-Gon that a dark force-sensitive named Maul is in league with the Separatists and is hiding in the fortress. This surprises Qui-Gon, since no dark-side user has been detected in over thousands of years. He then grabs a speeder from a citizen to travel to the fortress to confront Maul, and Obi-Wan insists on going with him, but Qui-Gon tells him that it's too dangerous and he must stay behind. Obi-Wan reluctantly agrees and Qui-Gon soon arrives at the fortress, where we see him and Maul ignite their respective lightsabers for the first time as a duel begins. Back at the Palace, R2 talks to the city's central computer and learns through hacking that the droid ships will be deactivated if the Separatist fortress was to be destroyed. R2 then leaves the closet and travels to the Palace's control room as shots are being fired through the windows and 3P0 follows while comically screaming at R2 to come back.

    Back on the ground, Obi-Wan senses a disturbance in the force and borrows a different speeder from another citizen to get to the fortress. There, he witnesses Qui-Gon get stabbed by Maul. Using all of his concentration and without hesitation, Obi-Wan is able to focus all of his force abilities and ignities his lightsaber and cuts Maul from the waste-down. This leads Maul to losing his balance and causes him to fall into a seemingly bottom-less pit (don't worry, he's not dead). Obi-Wan then attends to Qui-Gon, who encourages Obi-Wan to train Anakin. Qui-Gon then dies in Obi-Wan's arms. Meanwhile, R2 makes it to the control room and contacts Anakin and the Alderaan fleet to inform them of how destroying the Separatist fortress will lead to immediate victory. Obi-Wan notices the ships coming and manages to run far enough in time before the explosion happens. The droid fleet then shuts down as the Alderaan humans cheer in victory.

    I'll do the other two when my brain stops hurting.
    Last edited by rocknroll41, Feb 26, 2014
  18. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4

    …But it was Jackson himself who was really excited to be in the films.

    Plus, don't you think it's rather, well, demeaning to imply that Jackson can only ever play the angry, scary man?

    He's been in over 100 movies after all. I think he's probably well-versed in how to convey serenity, control, detachment, and patience.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  19. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    @sharkymcshark What exactly is wrong with Anakin building C-3PO? It doesn't make the galaxy "smaller" in any way.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  20. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Why? The prequels make a lot of people happy. If you don't like them, don't watch them and don't include them in your canon. That's what I do for The Clone Wars and the EU. But it seems selfish to want something to disappear just because you, personally, don't derive any enjoyment from it.

    That sounds…rather boring and predictable to be honest. Also, what's the symbolic reason behind this mirror? Or is it just supposed to induce nostalgia?

    That sounds really vague. How does he the Force in this situation? Also, he's a graduate but he's unable to concentrate? Wouldn't that have been a rather important detail to his training?

    So Anakin's a clone of Han now? Again, that sounds rather boring. Why are we retreading the OT?

    This sounds a lot like the OT's plot and the characters seem like Generation Xerox with Obi-Wan being more straight-laced and wholly good like Luke while Anakin is an expy of Han. Seriously, you even described him as having a "stereotypical smuggler attitude." How is it good writing to make your character into a stereotype?

    Let's see a princess, a smuggler, and a young, inexperienced Jedi are running from an army in a ship belonging to the smuggler whose name starts with an M. Hmmm….are we watching a new film or ANH?

    Oh god. And then we find out that Padmé is Ben's sister right? Love triangles are awful. You have two hours to tell a story in which time, if you want to include a romance, it must be given time to develop. Why would you insert a love triangle in there? Especially since this was already done in the OT.

    Do we really need to telegraph this so early on? Palpatine in TPM was not portrayed as a hero by any means, but he wasn't constantly being cast in a sinister light. Especially so early on.

    Really? Obi-Wan hasn't ignited his lightsaber before this point? Not once?

    No. Come on -- she's going to liberate her planet and has just met these two men. She isn't going to have time to relax and get to know them. It's unrealistic to think that she would flirt with them when her situation has been so strained. Imagine Leia flirting with Luke or Han in ANH. She never does. She might kiss Luke on the cheek and smile at them when the battle is won, but beyond that it would be really inappropriate and out-of-character considering the situation her people are in.

    Problem with this whole "clone Jedi" idea is that it kind of seems inconsistent with the OT. Why wouldn't Palpatine have just cloned himself or Anakin for a new apprentice if the clone could be Force sensitive?

    Wow! Exactly like ANH. Qui-Gon = Obi-Wan; Maul = Vader; Obi-Wan = Luke

    I mean, it's fair to use similar elements, but your story outline feels much too much like a retread.

    Again, this seems too much like ANH.

    I don't know why your brain hurts. You basically just plagiarized the plot of ANH and threw in some background details of TPM for good measure.

    Seriously, in your rewrite:

    Obi-Wan = Luke
    Anakin = Han
    Padmé = Leia
    Qui-Gon = Ben

    Where's the distinct characters? Interesting new dynamics? Why do we have to tell the same story over and over again? If this is really the story that you want to see, then watch ANH! The prequels would never be able to compare anyway since ANH came out long before TPM did. It would just be an update with a new cast and new special effects. What's the point? It doesn't expand the story at all.
  21. rocknroll41 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2013
    star 1
    I see what you mean. I honestly was just trying to make something that had more of the Star Wars feel to it. But I understand that I could've been a bit more original...Oh well, you live and learn I suppose. I'm not an experienced writer so I don't claim to be an expert in any of this.

    As far as thinking the PT should've never happened, I just feel like it de-mystifies a lot of the mystery that was so great with the OT. But I'll admit, I did like three things that resulted from the PT existing and being the way they were:

    1.)The Pod Racer video game
    2.)The Clone Wars cartoons
    3.)The RedLetterMedia reviews
    Last edited by rocknroll41, Feb 26, 2014
  22. Amiga_500_User Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2014
    1. First of all, I personally don't think that politics played any role in the OT (on a story level). ANH was a sci-fi adventure film where courageous rebels fought against an evil empire and that's it. That's enough to tell a compelling story. Nowhere in the OT had we to endure endless scenes of boring political dialogue. And it was overly complicated, too, even for more mature audiences (like me). For example, you could take out all those scenes at the senate and nothing really important would be missing (to tell the story of young Anakin's adventures).
    2. I do love lightsaber fights, too. When they make sense and when something is at stake. And when they are not too staged. But Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan take out the light sabers in the very first minutes of the movie just because they heard a weird sound. Plus, the lightsaber fights in the OT always had a deeper meaning and it was not all about lightsabers for the sake of lightsabers.
    3. Thanks. :)
    4. The Wampa is great, of course. But as another poster pointed out, it made much more sense in EMPIRE. The big fish in PHANTOM MENACE is just there. Again, you could take out that scene and nothing of importance is missing from the movie.
    5. What bothered me most is that the droids are completely useless when it comes down to the Jedi. They are like soda machines that get sliced in half by the dozen. No real threat. And that is very boring for me to watch.
    6. I honestly cannot see how Qui-Gon can be a loved character. He has no arc and thus no connection to the audience. I felt absolutely nothing when he gets killed by Maul. And for the story, he is totally redundant. Just show Obi-Wan meet Anakin and let the one train the other. There's no need for a character that is a wise master to Obi-Wan.
    7. Her talent is completely wasted, imho. She gets nothing to do and just sits somewhere the whole time. Her character (just like Qui-Gons) is flat, has no arc and really needed to be more fleshed out to care about.
    8. The Force is perfectly described by Yoda in EMPIRE. Maybe you can explain to me why we need another (completely different) explanation for the Force?
    9. My point is, if you want your audience to care for a child hero, the actor must be really convincing and play naturally. With Jake Lloyd, I always had the impression that he is just reading his lines. Bad acting kids are worse to watch than bad acting adults, imho.
    10. The point is that I wasn't involved in the movie because there's no hero to root for. There's no one at the center of this movie and thus all that happens does not affect me on an emotional level.
    11. I utterly love the Hoth battle, of course. Please go and watch that awesomeness again: it is a very well staged action set piece involving a fraction of the vehicles and visual effects that are shown in TPM. Again, less is more.
    12. It's the final confrontation and he doesn't say a word? Look at the lightsaber fights in the OT: they were more about talking than about actually showing a choreographed fight sequence. And Vader was no different from Darth Maul. He was just a brute henchman.
    13. When I said "thrilling" I did not mean "action". I meant something that hooks me right from the start. ANH does that perfectly. So do TESB and ROTJ. And those openings differ wildly from each other: ANH has the action opening, ROTJ has a very calm yet utterly compelling opening. In TPM we need to sit through awkward written dialogue.
    14. Not all digital sets were bad, that was not what I was trying to say. But some of the sets look so lifeless that I wish they'd used a real set.
    15. I find Watto's character to be clichéd. Very.
    [...]
    18. Well, my point is that we do not see any negative effect by the blockade on the daily life of Naboo's citizens (let alone do we get to see ANY civilian at all). How am I as a viewer supposed to be emotionally involved when there's nothing at stake and obviously nothing is changing the surroundings of Naboo? We don't see starving inhabitants or buildings in decay or something like that. Quite the opposite: Naboo always looks clean and very beautiful.
    [...]
    20. It's connection for the sake of connection. It makes no sense story-wise. If Anakin is building a robot for his mom to help around in the house, why does built C3-PO, who is not even capable of doing domestic work. He's nothing more than a translator in the OT. Plus, robots like C3-PO seem to get built at a robot factory because they all look the same (except for the color). So how come that Anakin is building a robot that looks like he's made in a factory?
    21. Samuel L. Jackson is best when he is kind of a loose cannon. Here he just gets to sit around a lot. Give that man something, anything, to do!
  23. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    If you remove the "trade blockade" plot, how is Palpatine supposed to go from Senator to Chancellor?
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  24. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Stormtroopers and Rebel Troops are cannon fodder as well. It's not mutually exclusive.

    Then to be fair, let's remove that from the OT as well.

    There was stuff at stake. The survival of the Naboo and the Gungans. Pretty much a given.

    Except it wasn't.

    NUTE: "When are you going to give up this pointless strike? Your Queen is lost, your people are starving and you, Governor, are going to die, much sooner than your people."

    It illustrated that Anakin was talented in a way most kids weren't.

    Actually, Sam Jackson was on "The Tonight Show" and said that he would love to be in the new films, even if it's a Stormtrooper. Lucas heard that and with Tupac Shakur's death, Lucas decided to meet with him to take on the role of Mace Windu.

    Except that's not the entire story. Lucas was adamant from early on that the fall of the Republic was instrumental in Anakin's fall. It went back even further than that to the early drafts of the OT.


    "You have the personal issue of Anakin and his turn to the dark side, but then the children later bring him back to being a human being," Lucas says. "But the larger issue is that you've given up your democracy, and that the bad guys never took it -- it was handed to them. That theme was there 30 years ago which came out of the Vietnam War and Nixon wanting to change the rules so he could get a third term."

    "I'm a big history buff and I was really into Caesar at the time," Lucas recalls. "I always wanted to know why the Roman Senate gave Caesar's nephew a dictatorship after they had gotten rid of Caesar. Why after the revolution in France did they create an Emperor? Why did the Germans after they had a Democracy after World War I, turn it into a dictatorship? Those were my initial questions 30 years ago."

    --George Lucas, Star Wars Homing Beacon #142


    What do you expect them to use, harsh language? They ignited their sabers because they heard an explosion. If it was Han, he'd pull his blaster out. Being staged? Uh, all fights are staged. Even in the OT. And there was deep meaning in the PT found in ANH.

    BEN: "Your father's Lightsaber. It is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or as random as a blaster. An elegant weapon for a more civilized time."

    Which is why Luke abandoned using blasters in ROTJ and started to use his Lightsaber as his primary weapon. And every time it was used by the Jedi and the Sith, it was in the purpose of battle.

    You did see the Battle Of Geonosis?

    Qui-gon has an arc. He is the prophet who finds the Chosen One and brings him to the Council. He is the one who because he is so different from them, becomes the model of what the Jedi Order will become. As to being Obi-wan's Master, it shows the dynamic of what a Master/Padawan relationship should be and how it will be different compared to Obi-wan and Anakin.

    She questions Qui-gon, shows a sensitivity towards Anakin, helps Palpatine to achieve his goals and fights for her people. I'd say that she was quite useful.

    The Force hasn't changed. What has been revealed is that there are certain people more in tune with the Force than others, something that's implied in the OT and it serves an even greater purpose. It establishes Anakin as the Chosen One and it is what Palpatine uses to turn him to the dark side.

    There's Qui-gon, Obi-wan, Padme, Anakin and Jar Jar. Five heroes.

    Vader was trying to turn his son to the dark side. Maul was just wanting to kill Jedi.

    A lot of real sets were used in TPM. Real sets for the ones done digitally cost a lot and Lucas has long looked into save money when he can.

    We didn't see civilians on Alderaan either. There's no reason for the city to be decayed since pretty much everyone surrendered peacefully.

    Uh, Protocol Droids serve as servant droids for senators and the wealthy upper class. Threepio doesn't do it in the OT because they're on the run. The most you get is his arguing with Threepio about the temperature in Leia's quarters. In ROTS, you see Threepio tending to Padme while she's looking at the Temple, before the attack. In a few deleted scenes, he's shown serving drinks. In TPM, TC-14 is sent out to escort the Jedi to the conference room and then deliver drinks to them.

    You did watch AOTC and ROTS?
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  25. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4


    First, brilliant post -- witty, cutting, sardonic, and quite dexterous in its own fashion.

    Obviously, I don't really agree with your sentiments, but your manner of putting them across really tickled me.

    And I don't mean that in any kind of demeaning or testy way.

    But to address the points themselves...

    The "wampa" subplot is particularly powerful, yes. I'll concede that the TPM "bigger fish" shenanigans can look and sound kind of silly and shallow in comparison.

    But the underwater sequence is, in my mind, deliriously entertaining and atmospheric, and has a stunning allegorical dimension with regard to both the fall of the Jedi and the larger saga, which it largely functions as a microcosm and overture for.

    The fact that all this is happening underwater is, to me, the key. In your Luke-Artoo example, Luke is merely surface-based witness to Artoo's misfortune. Artoo remains submerged the whole time, from Luke's POV, and is then spat out, zooming over Luke, and then returning to dry (damp) land. This, to me, is an important distinction.

    I love the quietly wailing fates / ethereal chorus on the soundtrack during the beginning of the "fishy" (pun half-intended) escapade, too. It's all rather grand and subliminal at the same time. The Jedi are somewhere more mysterious than they realize. Only Boss Nass accords the planet core with the proper reverence it deserves.

    And Jar Jar certainly jabbers, but we get a lot of his personality in this passage of the film, and the Jedi's stoicism is more pronounced in contrast. And that wonderful metaphor of one fish devouring another. I love this. Great stuff.

    Qui-Gon is "grey" in the sense that a) he's got greying hair (duh), and b) he's a Jedi that gives off the distinct impression of having been around (his robes, Liam Neeson's boxer's nose, and Liam Neeson generally). He gambles, he fleeces, he patronizes, he's the originator of (or the first Jedi to be seen using) the mind trick, and he sets himself up as his own authority (when his superiors tell him "no", in effect, he walks a third path -- very nearly in open defiance of their wishes). He may still be something of a "good guy", but he's not your vanilla Jedi, either. He's a bit sneaky and a bit dark.

    What do you mean, though, by "random"? The objectives of the participants of the two battles are somewhat divergent; and this informs their tactical approach. In the Battle of Hoth, the rebels are defending their territory long enough for their bulky transports to get away. In the Battle of Naboo, the Gungans are also stalling for time, but not so anyone can get away: the objective, instead, is to keep the TF army occupied long enough to allow Padme and her entourage a shot at storming the palace and capturing the Viceroy, while another battle soon rages in the sky, in a bid to destroy the droid control ship and render the TF militarily impotent. There's no clear way for either set of good guys to win on the ground alone, but in TESB, it's the rebels with the entrenched position, while in TPM, the Gungans and the droids are on more of an equal footing, but with the droids possessing a slight advantage (they do, after all, come packing tanks, and they have a captured city to fall back to).

    The Trade Federation -- an organization with strong influence in the Galactic Republic -- has blockaded and subsequently invaded a small, independent planetary system ("the sovereign system of Naboo"), and has railroaded the political process sufficiently that the Republic is either unwilling or unable (same difference) to stop them. In addition, the Trade Federation's Viceroy is also in league with a Dark Lord of the Sith: *the* Dark Lord of the Sith, as it turns out. That's pretty dark in and of itself. The TF may not be quite mean enough, or technologically capable of, blowing up planets, but what its top brass are up to DOES lead to those later events you describe.

    Obviously, TPM is intended to have a lighter, more innocent tone -- it's almost the vegetation myth (see "The Golden Bough") in a "Flash Gordon" mold -- so it can't be TOO literal here, or it would destabilize the careful progression of imagery and mood, intended to have two separate climaxes: one in ROTS (dark), the other in ROTJ (a return to the light). On the other hand, not showing the true fate of Naboo can be a lot more powerful, since we're left in a state of ignorance and confusion, mirroring that of the characters, especially Padme/Amidala, who is clearly wrapped in worry for the first 2/3rds of the movie as to the real state of her planet. It could even be darker than the rather matter-of-fact event of the Empire blowing apart Alderaan; if that was murder, this could be rape.

    That, in fact, is a valid perspective in-movie, since it's precisely such apathy -- oh, it's not actually bad UNLESS everything is obviously on fire or blowing to smithereens -- that leads to the birth of the Empire. And it's the very real stir caused by the later actions of the Empire -- chiefly, using an armoured space station to destroy whole planets in mere seconds -- that causes a change in the mood of the populace, as the Rebellion takes shape and people begin to have the wool lifted from their eyes. I can't help but see the deliberate LACK of graphic suffering as a plus-point for TPM, both in terms of its own tone, and how it establishes a kind of thematic cogency for the greater whole it is situated within.

    YESSSSSS!!!!!

    That is absolutely brilliant. And I really mean it.

    Anakin builds the AUDIENCE INSERTION CHARACTER for the "original" Star Wars.

    You've given my mind an entirely new direction to go in. Thank you.

    "He's too dangerous to be left alive!" has all the snarl and lethal precision of Samuel L. Jackson at his hateful best.

    Besides, I kinda imagine Mace to be a man who once had a spiritual crisis, reflecting his masterpiece of a character, Jules Winnfield (Mace Windu!!), in "Pulp Fiction", who shaved his head, "walked the Earth", slipped through a portal, and found himself in a GFFA, only to assume, in his spiritual quest, that everything was normal, quickly studying the ways of the Force and finding a serenity therein, ascending to the rank of Jedi Master when the Jedi Order put out feelers for a more pragmatic, no-nonsense monk, who might save them from themselves -- but alas, Mace absorbed too much classic Jedi dogma to make it happen.

    Hey, it's my fantasy. :p

    That aside, like PiettsHat (?), I just find Samuel L. Jackson to be an arresting screen presence and mightily capable actor. And I think he did a very solid, credible job in the PT.

    He also exemplifies that serial-feel of Star Wars and the PT, since SLJ is on-record as stating that he loved Star Wars from opening day, and made it his mission in life to accept as many "sidebar" roles (my wording) as he could. Apparently, he's always liked roles in films that take him back to his youth or that have that trashy, pulpy element to them.

    And if Lucas could get one more little hook for the PT, then why not, eh?
    Last edited by Cryogenic, Feb 26, 2014
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