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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Rewriting the Prequels...

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by swrescripted, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. Among the Clouds

    Among the Clouds Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 18, 2001
    I've long thought that Episode 1 should have begun essentially where Episode 2 did. Sure, the details between Anakin and Padme would be different. But we'd start out with a teenage Anakin as we did in AOTC, and this prophecy speak would be something Anakin learns about later in the film. He learns that the Jedi think he's the Chosen One, and this is something that not only amplifies his arrogance, but also starts casting doubts on his trust of the Council. We also learn from dialogue about Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon finding Anakin on Tattooine, but we don't see it. We still get Darth Maul, and he is dueled by Obi-Wan while Anakin deals with an escalating situation on Naboo involving battle droids and neimodians. Ultimately, Maul is defeated by Obi-Wan. At the end of the film, we learn that Senator Palpatine is now Chancellor since Valorum would not lead the Republic into war with the increasingly-threatening Separatists. Palpatine gives the Senate the war that they want. Oh, and there's this Jedi named Dooku who leaves the Jedi since he was tired of the politics and because they were not effective in staving off the new war.

    Episode 2 begins 3-5 years later and is a mix of the way Episodes 2 and 3 played out. The Clone Wars (which became known as such once the Republic enlisted the services of the Kaminoans to create clones) are in full swing. Oh, and that Count Dooku guy... he's back. Only now he leads the Separatists. We glimpse him with Sidious as we did Maul and Sidious together in TPM. We also get some background information on the guy from Obi-Wan, learning the lengths he went to in order to change the Jedi Order, and it's similar to when Obi-Wan talks to Luke in his hut in ANH. Toward the end of the second act, there's this grand battle in space in which Anakin and Obi-Wan have to rescue a kidnapped Palpatine who is being held by Dooku. Dooku reveals himself as Darth Tyranus. A duel ensues, and Obi-Wan is incapacitated as Anakin fights on. Anakin defeats Dooku and the three of them escape, but not until confronting General Grievous, who was second in command to Dooku. Unfortunately, Grievous escapes. Upon returning, Anakin has his dream about Padme dying. He recalls having such dreams about his mother as a child before she died, but was powerless. He tells her how his Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru took him in briefly, before he was found be the Jedi. Anakin then dedicates himself to finding a way to save her. Obi-Wan is sent to Utapau to deal with Greivous. Yoda goes to Kashyyyk. Anakin is swayed by Palpatine by stories that can save Padme's life. He soon learns that Palpatine is Sidious, and things pretty much the way they did in ROTS. However, after contributing to Mace's death, Anakin is confident in the choice he made, stating that Palpatine was right, and now the Jedi would pay. The film ends as Anakin is named Darth Vader by Sidious.

    Episode 3 begins weeks after Episode 2. Obi-wan and Yoda are turned on by their clone troopers. We see Anakin (now Vader) attacking the Jedi Temple, and we see more of the damage he caused to the Temple with various Jedi that he duels with and defeats. Upon leaving, Anakin leaves his lightsaber behind in the temple. He meets with Sidious and is then sent to other planets in order to deal with the Jedi and further his strength with the dark side in order to save Padme. Obi-Wan and Yoda return and find that Anakin has turned to the dark side and Palpatine is Sidious. We learn that the Republic is now the Empire. We see the clones on Coruscant, who are now sporting stormtrooper armor. We see Anakin again, only now he is in full dark side mode with Sith robes and a new, red-bladed lightsaber. He defeats the Jedi on various planets, and during this time, Obi-Wan is chasing him along with Padme. Yoda, meanwhile, has found an opportunity to confront Sidious, and we see an epic duel unfold between the two. Obi-wan finally catches up with Anakin with Padme in tow, and they track him to Mustafar. Anakin kills the Separatist leaders, and then confronts Obi-Wan and Padme. He injures Padme in a fit of rage, but doesn't kill her. Obi-Wan and Anakin then duel, and the result is essentially the same as in ROTS, save for a small spash of lava that hits Anakin's head and body, leaving visible scars. Obi-Wan and Padme travel to meet Yoda and Bail, and they learn that Padme is pregnant. She is heartbroken at what Anakin has become, and fears that she will not live for long. Bail escorts her to Alderaan with Obi-Wan, where she can safely give birth to the twins when the time comes. Yoda goes to Dagobah. Meanwhile, Darth Vader is being "rebuilt" into his new suit. The movie fast-forwards a matter of months. Padme gives birth with Bail, his wife, and and sadly, gives up Luke so that Obi-Wan can keep him safe on Tatooine. The film ends with Obi-wan delivering Luke to Owen and Beru.
     
  2. bigtukker

    bigtukker Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 22, 2012
    Episode 1 should have been an "Episode 0" movie. Maybe a prequel to the prequels, to set everything in motion.

    So
    Episode 0 = Episode I
    Episode I = Episode II
    Episode II = The highlight of the Clone Wars with cliffhanger like Episode V, includes fall of Ahsoka
    Episode III = End of Clone Wars, Fall of Anakin, Rise of the Empire

    Content changes
    Make Jar Jar less annoying and give him a niche
    Make the Clone Wars last much longer
    Have Ahsoka involved in the films (I know: retrospect)
    Have Anakin become a Jedi Master
    Have Padme survive Episode III, returns in originals (consider rewriting them as well)
    Have Kit Fisto last longer against Sidious
    Darth Maul survives Episode 0 and dies in Episode II
    Jango survives Episode I and dies in Episode II
     
  3. FRAGWAGON

    FRAGWAGON Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    If you have a taste for bad fanfiction, ask anyone to rewrite the Prequels.
     
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  4. Jarren_Lee-Saber

    Jarren_Lee-Saber Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2008
    I might use this as my new signature :D
     
  5. Seagoat

    Seagoat Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013

    I support this idea. But that's all. So I=II and II=III
     
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  6. Oberst Hans Landa

    Oberst Hans Landa Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 12, 2014

    Maybe, but there are also some great ideas out there, even if they're indeed few and far between.

    However, if anything, the fact that so many people, and I don't mean only here, but also in just about very corner of the Internet where the Star Wars franchise is discussed and dissected, have their own ideas about how the prequels should have been written tells us a lot about how they were received, their economic success and fans notwithstanding.

    To be honest, I cannot remember seeing so many rewrites of any other movie. Sure, I've seen stuff like: Oh, it would've been better if this and that had happened. But not like this.
     
  7. Amiga_500_User

    Amiga_500_User Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2014
    It's true, they're also cannon fodder. What I meant was that the droids are even less an opposing force than the Stormtroopers in the OT.

    That's a weird argument and you did not seem to read my first post. I said The Force was perfectly explained in the OT (i.e. ANH and - especially - TESB), so leave it at that. Everything that the audience needed to know had been said. Why come up with a new concept of The Force? Why de-mystify it via pseudo-biology?

    What I tried to explain was that Anakin is accidentially saving the day. He's not a hero I can root for, just a kid stumbling around. And that's the so called chosen one?

    You're quoting someone else.

    Again, it's not me you're quoting here.

    Threepeat, not my quote.

    You're sidestepping my argument. My point is that politics were not an integral part of the story in the OT. I do not say that they should be excluded from the PT. But the way it is portrayed and conveyed is boring and also overly complicated. I seriously doubt that many people that watch TPM only one or two time get the muddled political subplot. And you may show the fall of the Republic very easily without the use of endless scenes with boring political dialogue. Again, it is not political dialogue in general that I criticise, just the use and potrayal of it in TPM.

    You contradict yourself and again do not seem to get my point. They use the lightsaber when hearing a weird sound? Really? You said it yourself: they use the lightsabers "in the purpose of battle" and not when hearing something weird. Your quote of Ben perfectly underlines what I was trying to say: Using the lightsabers by the dozen in a big battle, is that what Ben meant with "civilized times"? Not in my book. It's pretty clear that they (i.e. the filmmakers) let the Jedi's use their lightsabers in the first 10 minutes of the movie just to show the lightsabers.

    Yes, but that's in AOTC, isn't it? As my first posting explained, I'm solely talking about TPM.

    You obviously don't know what a character arc is. You're simply describing what Qui-Gon is doing. How does his character develop? I tell you: not at all. And that's the missing arc. That's why the character is pretty flat and not fleshed out. And please give an example of the "dynamic Master/Padawan relationship" between him and Obi-Wan because that's also a missing element in TPM.

    It's the same as with Qui-Gon: flat character, not much to do, no character arc whatsoever. And please, "she questions Qui-Gon"? That's not nearly enough to be a "useful" character.

    Yes it has. The explanation changed from a mystic one (OT) to pseudo-biology (PT). It's the exact opposite.

    You still haven't explained to me who you think is at the center of the movie. Who is the character (or characters) that guide us through the story, who is the character that the story is centered around? It's not Anakin, because it takes quite a while until we get to meet him and things that go on around him are quite obviously out of his control (cf. "accidentially saves the day"). This is also the reason why the last thing you should call Jar Jar is a hero. Even more than in Anakin's case, he's not at any moment in control of a situation. Quite the contrary: he's very obviously the comic relief character, so he too isn't the hero of this story. It ain't the two Jedi either: up until the showdown, Obi-Wan does pretty much nothing.


    It reminded me of an awkward pause. They had nothing to say to each other. Maul could've least said something like "I'm gonna kill the both of you" or something similar.

    My point was that some of those digital sets look fake and lifeless. I said some, not all of them.

    Again, you're sidestepping my argument. Please explain where we actually see the negative effect of the blockade on the daily life on Naboo.

    Well, I was talking about "domestic work" and not "servant work". His movement is clumsy, how should he help around the house?
     
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  8. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    I disagree here. From what we see in TPM, droids are pretty effective. The regular ones against Jedi…not so much. But the droideka…heck yeah. Then, of course, the droids completely overpower the Gungans (who actually have some pretty cool tech) as opposed to a "legion of the best" stormtroopers getting their butts handed to them by Ewoks.

    That's a really odd argument as well. You do realize that ESB also expands on the definition of the Force. Yoda tells us that life creates the Force and makes it grow. In a similar manner, TPM also expands on the concept of the Force -- and not without reason I might add. The explanations of TPM are basically integral to understanding just what exactly it is that Palpatine is suggesting in ROTS. Midichlorians aren't a "new concept" of the Force but an expansion of current ideas -- that the Force is generated by all living things and that life as we know it is inextricably tied to the Force.

    Why? Anakin wanted to help. He didn't want to be left behind and wanted to contribute. But he's a kid, so of course in the final battle, he's not sure what's going on. But he certainly risked a lot to help Padmé and Qui-Gon get to Coruscant.

    Also, I think you misunderstand the visual symbolism -- look at the ship that Anakin destroys. It's shaped a lot like the galaxy, don't you think? That entire sequence is basically hinting at what Anakin will do -- he will accidentally rip the galaxy apart from the inside while trying to protect the people he loves.

    The tragedy of Anakin and his role as the Chosen One is, essentially, what might have been. It's the tragedy of the loss of so much potential that was never realized.

    Honestly, if one is bored by the politics, then one doesn't understand what war is about. War is as much about political maneuvering as it is about battles and military engagements. The dialogue is also critical to showing a lot of the themes running through the PT -- the rise of corporatism, the inefficiency of bureaucracy, manipulation in a time of crisis, and centralization of power.

    Ben, a Jedi, was a general in the Clone Wars during that "civilized time." Given that a lightsaber is the weapon of a Jedi, what exactly were you expecting? The first time we see a lightsaber used in conflict in the OT is for a bar fight, for goodness' sake.

    The dynamic that exists between Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan is that between a maverick and a traditionalist. Obi-Wan defers to the Council and is very concerned with following the Code and completing the assigned mission, above and beyond anything else. Qui-Gon is not -- his attention is readily diverted by what he perceives to be guidance from the Force which we see when he picks up both Anakin and Jar Jar, who will be absolutely critical to winning the battle of Naboo. Qui-Gon also acts as a surrogate father figure for little Anakin -- he speaks to him on a level he can understand and has faith in him and his abilities.

    Actually, Padmé has quite a powerful character arc that traces her from being more passive and relying on others -- such as Qui-Gon and later Palpatine -- to taking matters into her own hands and fighting to take back her planet. When she realizes that the Senate is not going to be able to provide her with a solution, she accepts that she must risk everything -- even her life -- to protect her people and she's not going to sit back where it is safe and allow them to die.

    We see her watch helplessly as the Trade Federation invades Theed. By the end, she's charging into her palace and taking them captive herself.

    Not really. The Force was always a biologically-based process given that it is created and grown by life. That's basically the definition of biology (the study of living organisms). I mean, the words "energy field" are utilized in Obi-Wan's explanation, seems to me there was always a scientific overlap with the Force. The Force isn't supernatural -- that is something that exists outside the realm of the natural world, that can't be studied. It is, in fact, a completely natural facet of the Star Wars universe, given that it is created by life and has measurable effects on the world.

    Qui-Gon is the center of the movie. He acts almost as a pivot point through which our three leads (Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Padmé) come together. He guides us through the story but the story itself is Padmé's. It's her journey to free her people but, although she's definitely a major character, Qui-Gon is the audience's main point of reference. It's an unusual character dynamic, but it's important (in my opinion) because it creates a vacuum in the next two films where Qui-Gon's absence is felt. He's not there to help guide Obi-Wan, he's not there to be the father figure Anakin needs, he's not there for Dooku either.

    No offense, but I really hate this idea. Maul's first action is to actively try to kill the Jedi. Dialogue would be utterly superfluous in this situation.

    I think you're missing the point of the film, though. It's the phantom menace. A lot of it is under the surface. But there are instances where you should realize the horror of what is happening, even if it isn't made explicit. The entry of the Trade Federation visually mimics the Nazi invasion of Paris. People being sent to camps for processing. Nute Gunray (in a private conversation with Sio Bibble) telling him how his people are starving. The Gungans being driven from their homes. And then, of course, during the battle, you can see quite a few Gungan corpses on the ground.

    TPM is intended to be the lightest of the films and so a lot of this exists beneath the surface, like a running thread of anxiety. You see this in Padmé's concern for her people throughout the film.

    Why would a moisture farmer need a protocol droid? I imagine Shmi uses C3PO for the same reason uncle Owen wanted him -- to interface with other machines and speak programming languages. Anakin never says that C3PO is for "domestic work" -- he says that he's a protocol droid to help his mother. Given who Anakin and Shmi work for, it's likely that Shmi is often making repairs on a lot of the junk that Watto sells. C3PO helps her with that.
     
  9. FRAGWAGON

    FRAGWAGON Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Fanfic writers, go nuts, but above all keep the politics. I was promised a more Machiavellian story way back around 1980, when Lucas was interviewed by Time or Newsweek or whichever it was.

    I've always marveled at how we got the political backdrop as well as 600 mph chases and races and a whole new expansion to the GFFA. Plus, John Williams!!
     
  10. Oberst Hans Landa

    Oberst Hans Landa Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 12, 2014
    The prequels are just about the only movies out there I would really like to see remade.
     
  11. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Considering they killed quite a few Jedi during the Clone Wars, they're efficient enough.

    I read what you said. The point still stands, if you aren't interested in one explanation, then you should be equally fine removing another. The whole point is to explain why Anakin was different and it was used to turn him to the dark side.

    Anakin wasn't doing things accidentally. He was being guided by the Force in his actions. He may not have intended to go out into the space battle, but his efforts saved everyone. He trusted his instincts when it came to destroying the ship, even when it wasn't his intention. Not to mention that he earlier won the podrace, which was intentional.


    A lot of it was cut out. What there is got the point across which is that the Trade Federation was fighting to retain its crooked business practices and the Galactic Senate was useless to stop it thanks to Palpatine. If people can watch C-Span, they can watch this.

    An explosion is a weird sound? Seriously, you're going to use that? Qui-gon and Obi-wan know the difference between a weird sound and a ******* ship blowing up. A loud explosion does not happen aboard a starship unless that means that there's an attack. People can tell the difference between a car backfiring, an exploison and a gunshot.

    Darth Sidious told Nute Gunrany to kill the two Jedi ambassadors. That's grounds for using their Lightsabers.

    It applies.

    Qui-gon comes into the Naboo situation hoping to resolve a political situation without much effort. He comes to realize that there is more going on than he realizes and in his journey discovers Anakin. He starts to see the bigger picture which is that the Sith are back and that drastic measures are needed, because the prophecy appears to be coming true. These drastic measures include going against the Jedi Code and the will of the Council to try and save everyone. He becomes angry at the Council for their decision and he and Obi-wan have an argument about that. He ultimately realizes that Obi-wan is smarter than he has given him credit for, which is why he apologizes and ultimately has him train the boy.

    Obi-wan doesn't see himself as being better than Qui-gon, which Anakin expresses quite a bit in AOTC. Obi-wan doesn't question Qui-gon at every turn. He knows his place and when he does speak up, it is only to serve as the voice of reason. Obi-wan follows instructions to a T and is able to work in tandem with Qui-gon for most of the battle with Maul.

    Padme sees that the galaxy is not as black and white as it looks, which informs her decision to call out Valorum and leads to her decision to work with the Gungans. And yes, she does question him, because she doesn't understand the Jedi way. She comes to realize that she needs to trust in others to accomplish a mutual goal, which is why she trusts Palpatine and she later trusts Boss Nass.

    The spiritual side remains as it takes great faith on the part of each Jedi and Sith to do what they do. The biology is why the Force ran strong in the Skywalker bloodline and how new Jedi and Sith were recruited. As well as how Palpatine lures Anakin in.

    The story is Anakin's story. The whole way through the film and the Saga. There is and always has been more than one character in "Star Wars" that we follow. Luke, Han, Obi-wan, Leia, Threepio and Artoo were the heroes in ANH. Luke isn't seen until over ten minutes in the first film. So screen time is irrelevant. Jar Jar is a hero because regardless of his clumsy actions, he still contributes to the Battle of Naboo. And more, it is through Jar Jar's kindness and friendliness that he and Padme are able to bond, which results in the two of them being instrumental in uniting two races.

    A hero is not always the guy with the gun shooting the bad guy.


    Why? What purpose does it serve? Jason Voorhees doesn't need to talk and he's killed over two hundred people.

    Which ones?

    Just as soon as you admit seeing people react to the Death Star was equally unimportant.


    Domestic work is the same as servant work. Essentially helping out with the chores that Shmi and Anakin normally do together. His first movements were clumsy because he's not finished in TPM, as per Anakin's own words. He's been sitting in the off position for a while now. He hasn't had spent much time walking around the hovel, getting used to it. Note in the rest of the film, along with AOTC and ANH, he has no problems walking around indoors.[/quote]
     
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  12. Oberst Hans Landa

    Oberst Hans Landa Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 12, 2014
    I have a question for you guys. Would anyone else have liked to see an infatuation developing between Padme and Obi Wan at some point, which could've not only resulted in Anakin being jealous of his master, but also in even more feelings of hate and confusion?
     
  13. Visivious Drakarn

    Visivious Drakarn Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2013
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    And that's not only because it's Belated Media nonsense.
     
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  14. Oberst Hans Landa

    Oberst Hans Landa Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 12, 2014
  15. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Hell no. I hate love triangles.

    I think Anakin going bats on the Jedi would have made more sense if Padme were in a situation in which Anakin believed that they "allowed" her to die though. Literally allowed her to die, not "won't help me conduct creepy Plagueis science experiments because I had a bad dream."
     
  16. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011

    Sweet Jesus, no. Love triangles are really, really difficult to get right and, in the given time span of the movies (considering everything they had to cover), I think it would have been foolhardy to include it. Plus, I feel it would have made the OT super-awkward, especially given that Obi-Wan lies to Luke. He'd also be conveniently omitting the fact that he wanted to boink his mom. So let's not.

    Plus, I feel that the PT already does a good job with addressing Anakin's jealousy of Obi-Wan and how Anakin doesn't go to Obi-Wan because he's afraid he won't understand.

    That and…whenever there are two guys competing for a girl, I feel like the romance often is brushed aside in order to highlight the competition between the two males. This is a big issue I have with the new Star Trek films in that, even though Spock is in a relationship with Uhura (and Kirk tried to hit on her), their romance is really only used as an emotional vehicle to develop the Kirk-Spock bromance.

    So I'm gonna have to go with "no" in regards to love triangles.
     
  17. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    No because that would run counter to why Luke almost becomes evil. The two Skywalker men are reflections of each other, as both felt that they weren't strong enough to protect their loved ones and resist the pull of the dark side. That would be lost if Anakin thought that they were in a relationship. Lucas did toy with the idea very briefly in the first draft of TPM, but abandoned it because he didn't like it and realized that Anakin's motivations was sufficient enough.
     
  18. Garrett Atkins

    Garrett Atkins Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Obi-Wan should have found Anakin. Anakin should have been a goof pilot.
     
  19. Amiga_500_User

    Amiga_500_User Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2014
    You're right with your last point. And the droidekas are powerful, indeed (so much that all that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan can do is flee...). I was hinting at those everyday droids. As George Lucas said himself: "They're pretty useless, actually."


    I just felt that Yoda's explanation was perfect AND emotionally touching. The midichlorian-stuff is just dull, imho. Maybe it's a matter of personal preference.

    You're perfectly right: he's a kid. He shouldn't be in a battle. Especially when things are out of his control or influence. I just don't care for him.

    That's a very far fetched interpretation, as far as I'm concerned. And to me that ship doesn't look like the galaxy at all.

    War is also about politics, of course. I'm simply bored of the politics in TPM because it's presented via lifeless, flat dialogue and in an overly complicated way. I like political themes or subtext when presented in a compelling way, like, in "All the Presidents Men" or "JFK". Here in TPM it just fails to be intelligent or meaningful.

    True.

    All of this has nothing to do of what a character arc is. You're just describing how the characters are written from the start. Except MAYBE for Anakin, all these characters (Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Jar Jar) do not have a character arc in TPM. That's why the audience does not care as much about them and that's also why they are pretty bland and lifeless characters we're not interested in. And I'm talking about general audiences, not die-hard Star Wars audiences.

    Concerning Padmé: She doesn't do a lot most of the times and just at the very end takes matters in her own hands. That's also hardly an arc that you're speaking of.

    Qui-Gon is most definitely not the center of the movie. At the same time, you're saying that it is Padmé's story that we're following. So which one is it? Again, and I cannot stress this not enough as one of the weakest points in TPM, Qui-Gon is not a hero and he does not have a developing character (if so, please enlighten me). His character stays the same throughout the movie.

    Glad you're pointing out that Nute Gunray is simply TELLING how people are starving. Lucas uses this weak device quite a lot in the PT, simply letting his characters explain what happened or how their relation to each other evolved, instead of SHOWING us what happened or how things evolved between characters. Those are very basic movie rules, btw. Not showing the effect of the blockade has no emotional impact on the audience. Period.
     
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  20. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    As I said, it's Anakin's story, Qui-gon's story, Obi-wan's story, Padme's story and Jar Jar's story.

    "The Star Wars saga is like a symphony, which has recurring themes," he adds, "You have one theme orchestrated in a particular way and place, which then comes back orchestrated as a minor theme somewhere else. There are these little threads running through things that are constantly turning events on their head. You see two people confronting the same things, with different ends. It's a rhythm. I like the idea of seeing something from a different perspective. An advantage I have in this particular situation is that I have literally twelve hours to tell a story. It has the epic quality of following one person from the time he's nine years old to the time he dies. It's Anakin's story, but obviously there are many other characters in that story- his children, his best friend- and their stories carry through. So this isn't just a tune- it's a symphony. When you do it as a symphony, I think it actually becomes beautiful."

    --George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 221

    As to Qui-gon being a hero, he's a Jedi. That makes him a hero outright. He's fighting the good fight against the Trade Federation and against Maul. Sure, he falls, but so did Obi-wan and he was a hero as well. A hero is different from the hero.

    It didn't affect you. That doesn't mean that it did or didn't affect other audience members. In TESB, you never see how Imperial occupation affects Cloud City. You're just told that it does by Lando.
     
  21. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    We pretty much already got that information from Ben in ANH.

    Midichlorians don't explain the Force, they explain Force sensitivity. These are distinct subjects. No new "explanation" for the Force is provided in the PT, almost as if the audience was expected to have seen the OT already.

    Wrong. Force senstivity was already related to biology in the holy, unimpeachable OT. It was said outright that Force strength ran in the Skywalker bloodline in ROTJ, not to mention the importance placed on Luke in TESB as the last hope of the galaxy and someone with the potential to destroy the Emperor, not because he's some angry kid with a lightsaber, but because he's Vader's offspring.

    So in other words, who's the pro-toe-gone-ist? [face_laugh] Yeah, I think we've seen this show before...
    [​IMG]
     
  22. FRAGWAGON

    FRAGWAGON Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Boo hoo the Force is a SciFi religion.
     
  23. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Useless against Jedi maybe. But they're shown to be quite effective against the Gungans and security personnel of Naboo. Plus, as we see on Geonosis, in large numbers they can threaten the Jedi.

    Well, I guess it's all subjective then. I really liked the midichlorians when I first heard about them. I thought it was cool how Lucas made them so inherent to life and thus the Force itself was inextricably tied with life.

    And that's your right, but I did care for him. He was a good kid who was trying to help people. I didn't want him to be hurt.

    Okay then, but I think you're really missing out by confining your interpretations so much. Lucas put a lot of thought into the ship design. The opening of ANH is a famous example.

    Having seen JFK, I can say that I'm glad Lucas didn't go that route -- Oliver Stone's film has been so thoroughly debunked and is so enormously problematic that I would never go to it to develop any kind of war plot line. I felt TPM's politics were simple enough for the story but also very relevant, so I liked them.

    I think you're missing my point a bit. Qui-Gon's journey isn't really about character development (considering he dies at the end). He's really a central character through which all the others are brought together and his absence, therefore, is keenly felt. Particularly in terms of how Anakin needed a father figure which is one of the major reasons Palpatine was able to so easily sink his claws into him.

    If you're looking for a character that develops, though, it's really Padmé that has the most. She goes from much more uncertain and passive in the beginning of the film to making all the decisions by the end -- she chooses to go back to her people, she goes to see the Gungans and begs for their help, she comes up with the plan to storm the palace. That's a character arc. Because after spending the majority of the film uncertain of herself and telling Qui-Gon that the Queen would not approve or relying on the opinion of others (Sio Bibble, Qui-Gon, Palpatine), the culmination of her journey is realizing that she must act by herself to free her people. That's a character arc, because Padmé, at the end of the film, is different than she was at the begging -- more assertive and certain of herself.

    Yep. It's not one or the other. We follow Qui-Gon because he's the one who brings the others together, but the plot largely concerns Padmé and she has the most character development. This is one of TPM's greatest strengths in my opinion because although it isn't a traditional structure, it positions Qui-Gon where he needs to be in the narrative --> he brings the others together and then disappears. TPM is the first film in a planned trilogy and, to me, this was a very good move on Lucas' part.

    I disagree. I think the emotion comes from seeing Padmé's concern -- she doesn't know what is going on and feels helpless and in the dark. There's a shadow and a threat hanging over her people that she has to deal with. We do, also, see the droids kill Gungans during the battle. Contrast this with Alderaan where we get a two second clip of a planet blowing up. But we never see Leia's reaction to that. She never gets any of the emotional development that Padmé gets as she worries over her people's fate. And the lack of direct visual is, I think, important in the context of the trilogy -- TPM is meant to be the lightest film, the most innocent. The times will darken in episodes II and III, especially when one realizes that Palpatine was behind everything. That he did this to his own people.

    You may not have found it emotionally impactful, but I certainly did as I strongly empathized with Padmé. So I don't think it's fair to speak for a a general audience either way.
     
  24. Samnz

    Samnz Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    ANH uses the same structure. It's Leia's story (trying to restore peace and destroy the DS) witnessed thought the eyes of the Droids. In TPM, it's Padmé's stroy (trying to free Naboo) witnessed throught the eyes of the Jedi, especially Qui-Gon's.
    Qui-Gon's the man who puts the other characters into position for the next film. He has a major developing influence on Obi-Wan, he finds Anakin and brings him and Padmé together. He's the extended version of Ben from ANH.

    She takes matters in her own hands at the end of the second act, initiating the third act. That's common business, because characters need their time to realize what the writer wants them to learn. Your complaint would be even more accurate about Han (in ANH), who is kind of dragged along by the others most of he time, only motivated by the prospect of money, and changes only like in the 5 minutes, actually. Anyway, character development is character development regardless of when it occurs on screen.

    This has been Star Wars style since 1977.
    We never see Alderaan's concerns or fears of dying over the Death Star orbinting their planet. We never see any confinement or simply inconveniece for the people on Bespin due to the Empire's presence (although this could have made Lando's decision much more accesible for the audience). We don't see any negative impact of the Empire's presence on Endor and we are still supposed to believe that the Teddy bears would risk their lives for a handful rebels.
    At least we get to see forest getting destroyed, Padmé's concerns at length and Naboo citizens being relocated by force in TPM.
     
  25. FRAGWAGON

    FRAGWAGON Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    It's on a 'need to know' basis. And regarding Qui-Gon's character arc.....Ben Kenobi. "Hello, I'm the wise man. Now excuse me whilst I step over here and BZZZZT". Same exact character arc.

    Again regarding "show me don't tell me", Star Wars has plenty of "tell me" instances and it's always abbreviated for a reason. In ANH, it's because we must move along, and it's really the Princess that's more important, her reactions.

    Come to think of it, it's much the same as the princess in Hidden Fortress. We didn't need all the gory details of her suffering plight, either.
    [​IMG]
     
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