PT Rewriting the Prequels...

I don't mean to change the topic, but here's a recently-released alternate ending to ROTJ. I'm going to warn you, the CGI is awful.

 

I would have Maul live to the beginning of ROTS, have Dooku be a Dark Jedi in charge of the Seperatists, replacing Grievous. Also, no Sidious transmissions. The idea of an unseen puppet master controlling everything is lesser when you see the puppet master pulling all the strings. Only have mentions of him ("This time, I will contact Lord Sidious" or "Is Sidious controlling the senate?") Everything he says, can pretty much be rewritten into someone else's lines, while implying that they are scared ****less of him and that he is the one really in charge. Pretty much, we never see Sidious, unless he's either masquerading as Palpatine or after he reveals himself in ROTS.

 

True. In SW we knew there was an Emperor as he was mentioned by one of the imperial officers. But we never saw him. And if the first film and maybe second one is the story of the main heroes, then Sidious can be merely an emerging character in episode 2 via one hologram transmission.

Ep 1: mentioned by name

Ep 2: seen by hologram

Ep 3: reveals himself in person

Of course we will then see who he really is. Shock!

 

I'm still thinking not at all. Only mention him by name in Ep I and II. Then, without having seen his face at all via hologram, the Sidious/Palpatine reveal would be so much more surprising!!

 

Well as many stated above, Anakin needs to be older in TPM. Old enough to be an excellent pilot when Obi-Wan first met him, old enough to fall in love with Padme, waaay the hell too old start his Jedi training yet young enough that being seperated from his mother was a terrible experience does not add up to 9 years old.

But Padme needs fixing too. A democratically elected queen of 14~ years old? Just have her BE a queen, a position for life unless a foreign government has something to say about it. You know, like Princess Leia. If she was born into the position I'd be more understandable how she found herself occupying it when young enough to be Anakin's romantic interest.

Which brings me to the next subject. The Original Trilogy wasn't just about the Jedi, it was about the plight of the normals too. Too keep that intact they made Leia and Luke's mother a main character alongside Anakin and Obi-Wan. Good move, but where in TPM hers was the driving plot of the movie, her presence was much more forced in Attack of the Clones and nothing but a damsel distress for Anakin to angst over by Revenge of Sith. Like I said, have her keep the position of Queen until the Empire, which ever faction(s) oppose the Republic in the Clone Wars or perhaps the Republic itself overthrows her government. Naboo was on an important enough shipping route/sitting on enough resources/whatever the hell Sidious conned the Trade Federation into thinking they wanted Naboo for, for it to be occupied in TPM so let that still be a thing, Alderaan was destroyed outright so let Naboo be just made near inhabitable be the ravages of the Clone War Taris-style. And by keeping Naboo important you can keep Padme as important without making her a senator, which never friggin worked.

Same with Tatioone, Luke was very excited to learn his father and Ben fought in the Clone Wars so let the Clone Wars touch Tatioone. Have it be the cause of Anakin's mother death, rather then random sandpeople. It would serve to make ending the war by any means neccesary a more personal goal for Anakin too, which it needs to be, given how Revenge of the Sith played things.

Then there are the other Jedi and Sith. The best lightsabre fight is between Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Darth Maul. But it lacks the emotion of the OT lightsabre fights. But in the OT the drama was "Darth Vader killed Obiwan/used to be Obi-Wan's apprentice/killed Luke's father/is Luke's father." This is the first episode, Maul/Qui-Gon need to earn each others contempt in this movie.

Easiest way is for Maul to kill all teh younglings like Anakin did. Have Naboo be the location of a/the Jedi Academy, have them be completely neutral in the trade dispute (and initially seemingly left to their own devices be the Trade Federation) to show how before all this the Jedi were not soldiers. Then Darth Maul came along, The Jedi suffered a huge loss in Qui-Gon and all the others and in reaction they became more proactive (read: militaristic) and Anakin was taken on as a Padawan.

These deaths should also be what devastate Count Dooku and drive him into self-imposed exile at the end of TPM, who I'd have appear as one of the Jedi Masters on Corusant who, after Padme and Qui-Gon aren't initially able to find the help they need, reach out too (Count Dooku being a galactic aristocrat in his own right). His resources would allow them to return to Naboo from Corusant in better condition then they left, rather then worse beyond the addition of a 9 year old child to their number which I felt was pretty weird in the movie. Also Dooku and Qui-Gon could explain to Anakin, and us, what the hell a Sith Lord is.

Those are my haphazard thoughts on the matter so far.

 

He was an excellent pilot. He raced pods and survived a space battle. He was in love with Padme age nine. I had feelings for girls at that age. Not quite the same when I was fifteen, but still there. And given the Younglings in AOTC, TCW and ROTS, Anakin was too old.

The point Lucas was making was that Padme was a politician who could have taken advantage of her popularity to remain in office for the rest of her life, but doesn't due to her belief in the political structure as it is. Palpatine, on the other hand, uses his popularity and a crisis to stay in office far longer than necessary for personal gain. Being young works to Palpatine's advantage.

It misses the point because A) Tatooine was established as insignificant in the OT as it was outside of the Republic and Empire. And B), being random shows how life can be cruel and thus it becomes personal on a different level which is fighting nature, rather than fighting a war.

Why should there be contempt on Qui-gon's part? He's a fully trained Jedi Master and thus is above contempt. Luke is understandable because he's a Padawan Learner who has yet to understand the ways of the Force and the dangers of the dark side. Obi-wan's anger at Maul killing his Master fits that bill. Maul would have contempt for all Jedi anyway.

We know what they are. They're evil Jedi. Pretty simple.

 

I'm not saying he wasn't. It just would've been a little more believable if he had grown to the point of fitting in a pilotseat.

Well Anakin had completely fallen in love with her at nine and stayed constantly in love with her for all ten years of them being apart. I don't find that believable.

But the younglings in those sequels are not our baseline, they were created after and for the sake of Anakin. LUKE is our baseline. 20+ year old Luke when he went to Yoda being too old but toughing it out anyway.

That was very admirable of him but I doubt when OT happened we envisioned Yoda considering training even 9 year old already endangering the galaxy. And presumably having once been a human child yourself, I gotta assume you didn't consider yourself too late at that age to go down any career.

Padme shouldn't exist solely as Palpatine's minor plotpoint.

Thinking that Tatioone can't be touched by the war because it's insignificant belies war's causality. And I don't agree with our assessment of the OT. Han Solo and Boba Fett are the best smuggler and bountyhunter in the galaxy respectively and they both don't consider Jabba the Hutt in anyway a smalltime business. Boba will get all up in Darth Vader's face if collecting his fee from Jabba is endangered.

Mace Windu, Yoda and Obi-Wan would disagree. They antagonised the hell out of the Sith Lords they fought.

No they are not. Dooku and Anakin are evil Jedi. Palpatine and Maul were never Jedi and have their own history. Events from long ago that we don't know about beyond that they want revenge for them.

 

Palpatine should deform slowly from using the dark side, not quickly from lightning.

Have Pestage, Greejatus, etc. with Palpatine instead of Amedda and Moore.

 

According to the guy who played him, he did.

 

Normal kids cannot drive that well unless they're taught. Being a Force user is a different matter.

It's called obsession. He kept thinking about her for those ten years and didn't move on from it.

Lucas already had the Younglings in mind when he started writing TPM, back when Anakin was going to be twelve. He just didn't debut them until AOTC, but the knowledge was already out there by the time TPM came out. Which is why he turned over his notes on Jedi training to the publishing division and they released the first book in the "Jedi Apprentice" series which featured Jedi training. And when TPM was made Lucas established that Anakin was still too old. So Luke wasn't ever going to be the only baseline for training.

A nine year old won't be a danger. A nine year old with attachment issues will become one. That's why Anakin is a problem when he's older and already trained. Because of what happens to his mother and then to Padme. As to myself, at the time, no. But most careers don't have the danger of you becoming an evil tyrant that will commit mass murder and genocide because you're unable to accept that people will die and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

She doesn't, but that's part of the story.

In ANH, when Luke tells his friends that there was a Star Destroyer and another ship in battle, his friends dismissed the notion due to Tatooine being outside of the Empire and insignificant. TPM reveals that this was true during the era of the Republic which is why slavery was still in practice and why it was the perfect place to hide from the Federation and later from the Empire. As to Jabba, he has nothing to do with this. He was only ever an issue when the Confederacy wanted to use the Hutt space routes to stage their campaign and kidnapped Jabba's son to blackmail him.

The Sith just hate the Jedi period, but the Jedi have no reason to be upset at the Sith and that doesn't follow their methods.

MACE: "The oppression of the Sith will never return."

PALPATINE: "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy and we shall have peace."

That's pretty much all there is to know.

 

normal pre-teens can't drive that well at all by virtue of nring able to look up from the steering wheel, not reach the gas and brake and, when talking about piloting, reach the switches and buttons overhead. And we aren't talking about driving mind you, half of Anakin's competition the podrace had exploded by the end of the first round.

I ask you, and this pertains to the Padme love thing, did Anakins situation have to be so damn extreme? Wasn't being an immensely talented, very young immaculately conceived slave enough? Did they have to go extra mile in every aspect?

Given that the younglings didn't make it into the first prequel, or rather given that Lucas made no effort to ensure that just as many movieviewers were aware of his youngling notes as they were aware of the events of Empire Strikes Back before going to see The Phantom Menace, yes he was our baseline.

I agree with WHY he became a danger. I disagree with why he was thought an absolutely unavoidable apocalypse waiting to happen: solely because he came to them at the ripe old age of nine. In Clone Wars Obi-Wan discusses Anakin and doesn't say anything about his mother, or Padme or Palpatine or his former slave status, or his own lack of experience being a rolemodel. He puts it all down to Anakin's age when having come to them. You don't trust people with attachments with superhuman power FINE. But don't tell me you can't avoid a child becoming too arrogant and overconfident if he's been completely under your power since 9. Obi-Wan is a bad parent in what I can only assume is a long line of failed Jedi Master parental substitutes thus creating this inane believe.

Being a Jedi, or a Sith or a nine year old doesn't prevent one from accepting that people die and there nothing you can do to stop it. That was very Anakin specific.

Yeah she also exists as Anakin's love interest but the PT wasn't able to give her her own plot to the same degree as TPM in the subsequent two movies. I count this at least partly down too having her leave Naboo to become Senator.

Yeah I know what they ultimately ended up going with, this topic is about how these events might have been rewritten. And given that the Clone War was by no means neccesarily a civil war strictly feld within the official boundries of the Republic/future Empire I don't see how what you are saying excludes Tatioone being effected by war.

I dunno what the hell this is all about but just the fact that there are such things as "Hutt Space Routes" tells me Jabba can be of significance beyond Tatioone. And thus attract trouble too his home.

Obi-Wan was upset (to put it lightly) about his master getting killed. Yoda was upset about what his former Padawan was doing. Mace had a murderous temper when confronting Palpatine. Obi-Wan was pissed as hell at Mustafar. I don't know why you think Qui-Gon, one of the more impulsive Jedi we meet, is beyond all this, no matter what occurs.

And if "Sith just hate Jedi period" is indeed a thing then that is exactly what I'd change about the prequels. Villains should have motives beyond randomly coming into existence one day finding that you hate a random group of people with no greater connection to you.

 

A nine year old is capable of sitting comfortable behind the wheel of a car. It all depends on height, which varies for every child. Anakin could sit comfortably in the N-1 fighter and built his pod to fit his size. And Anakin was unique in that he was the only human capable of piloting a pod.

If the story required it. Which in this case it did. Anakin's story as he developed it was that he wasn't used to living a life that he was used to, versus a life that the Jedi had put in place for themselves long ago.

That doesn't matter, really. The films are designed to be viewed in either order.

Obi-wan was being countermanded by Palpatine, who was a negative influence on him. And Anakin's abilities are what makes him overconfident and arrogant despite what Obi-wan did. That's why Lucas said that it is easier to do bad because of how powerful one can become.

It wasn't just Anakin. Luke was also fighting against bad things happening to his loved ones, which is why he went to Bespin and why he lashes out at Palpatine. And as we saw during Yoda's training, he was tempted with preventing the deaths of all the Jedi, if he gave into the darkness.

Her plot in AOTC was to stop the creation of the Military Act and most of what she had in ROTS was cut for pacing purposes.

Except the war starts afterwards and Lucas had no intention of connecting the war to it. At one point he did have Dooku being the mastermind, but he dropped that in favor of making personal by nature rather than by design.

Jabba was only important during the war and not before then.

Right and he was a Padawan still who had to let go of his hate. I mentioned that.

He wasn't upset. He was disappointed that he turned to the dark side. But it wasn't personal for him.

Pushed into it. Prior to then, he didn't in his dealings with Dooku or others.

No, he wasn't. Obi-wan was calm the whole time. He was disappointed in Anakin's choice and incredulous at what he had become. But he wasn't angry.

Because Qui-gon had no anger towards Maul. Just like Yoda did with Dooku and Obi-wan with Anakin.

You do remember that the Sith once ruled the galaxy until the Jedi wiped them out?


MACE: "The oppression of the Sith will never return."

PALPATINE: "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy and we shall have peace."

MACE: "I do no think that they could have returned without us knowing."

 

No, he really isn't.

Anakin isn't particulaly big.

That was his pods first race. Not his own. He has raced in and totalled several other pods apparently also built to fit his size that Watto bought for him. What a peculair relationship they have.

Not because he was physically different tho. Or invulnerable from dying in the many crashes he has had.

But he was. By Clone Wars he had already spent mlre then half his life with Obi-Wan, and there's no indication that Anakin can remember all the way from before he was 1 years old. The Jedi Apprentice stories you referenced make him having trouble remembering his mothers face a plot point.

Lucas should have either explained this when Empire first came out and asked people to wait till 2002 or accepted that people are gonna be most familiar with Luke's circumstances going into his Jedi training then any other Jedi.

Right, but that's no what the Jedi chalked everything regrettably about Anakin's attidute up too..

Even in Revenge of the Sith Obi-Wan was still as if not more skilled and more powerful then Anakin.

Yes, he was fighting to prevent bad things from happening. That does equal not have no comprehension of the basic concept of life and death.And again, Luke was almost triple Anakin's age by then and still did a better job.

Her plot in AOTC was being the target of an assassination and being the subject of Anakin's lve/obsession.

You point being what exactly?

Yeah, but thuis is a topic about how >>>the prequels might be rewritten<<<. Not why they were written the way they were or whether it was a good idea or how they were written in the first place.

That's an opinion.

I didn't say anything about ObiWan already having hate that he still needed to let go of when facing Maul, that's a little much.

Well I disagree complete?

Well then that proves that a Jedi Master can be "pushed" into going ballistic with little comparative effort.

Yeah he did. You saw that look he gave Dooku after right he killed Jango Fett. He had a lightsabre with Dooku's name on it.

He was screaming at Anakin. You think Obi-Wan in a sound state of mind would leave Anakin to burn to death, not even putting him out of his agony or anything?

Yes and one of the main critism of the duel of fates is that it didn't have the stakes have the lightsabre fights in OT. Hence why we are having this discussion, welcome.

So you disagree that there is no greater story to be told about the Sith then that they are just evil Jedi and hate the Jedi the end?

 

I did. I was already five foot six when I was nine. I could reach the pedals and hold onto the wheel and see over it. My best friend was an inch or so taller than I was and could do it as well.

But big enough.

Watto didn't buy him pods. Those were his own and Anakin could fit in them just fine. Sebulba was shorter than him and could fly just fine. As to wrecking those other pods, mind you that Sebulba cheated which caused him to wreck. Once Qui-gon taught him a quick lesson on using the Force, he was able to win.

No, because he was strong with the Force. And he was skilled enough to salvage most of the last pod, despite Sebulba's cheating.

His mother, yes, but he could still remember Padme and he could remember the majesty of Naboo and how he felt while staying there.

It's not really an issue, only that it didn't fit your own preconceived notions.

Only towards the end, which is why Mace and Yoda talked about trusting Anakin. They worried that the relationship was becoming unhealthy.

Because Anakin let his anger overwhelm him and as a result, he was making mistakes and fighting sloppy.

Anakin understood life and death, he just couldn't accept it. He believed that the Force could grant him power to do whatever he wanted, which was from Palpatine's influence.

Born from her wanting to stop the creation and usage of an army and Anakin's inability to let things go.

That she wasn't just a damsel in distress.

The thing is that it misses the whole point of Anakin's turn which was nature, not war. The struggle of self, not of external threat.

No, it's a fact which is why the Republic and the Empire ignored him until it was convenient.

He doesn't hate Maul until the end of the duel.

If he was angry, that then he would have killed Anakin and would have become evil. Thus he wasn't angry.

It took three years to get him to that point.

No, that was the look of someone who let him know that his bounty hunter wasn't that big a threat.

Screaming doesn't equate anger. That is what incredulous means. He's having trouble understanding what he's saying and he's also shouting due to the volcanic eruptions. And as to not killing him, as discussed in the other thread on the subject, he only did what he did because he swore an oath to not kill a helpless person and he couldn't bring himself to kill his friend, but he could leave the fire and lava to do it.

Jedi do not have anger in them. That's why they're Jedi. Qui-gon is doing his duty and nothing more. The stakes are stopping the Sith from succeeding in their plans and Obi-wan's own stakes are due to his being a Padawan.

Pretty much. The Sith ruled the galaxy and the Jedi stopped them by trying to wipe them out. Darth Bane survived and vowed revenge which Darth Sidious is now carrying out.

 

Honestly, all I would do is REMOVE a few scenes and lines that were poor. Take out a few stupid Jar Jar & Anakin lines in TPM, remove the awful 3P0 "jokes" and poor romance dialogue from AOTC. Not sure if I'd change anything in ROTS.

 

No, Watto had him race for him before, and did not know about Anakin's own pods. This was the first time he raced in his own pod.

Which is part of the Jedi life of going to many wonderous planet, not his old life.

As opposed to the preconceived notions that Lucas is now telling us to have yes, I agree. Given that what comes before The Phantom Menace is the story of a 20+ year old becoming a successful Jedi, I don't see how one would expect our preconceived notions to be otherwise.

Yes towards the end they started talking about something real FINALLY. but in TPM the first thing Obi-Wan has to say is he's too old. When he's turned down for becoming a Jedi Mace says he's too old. When Obi-Wan complains about Anakin behaviour towards the beginning of Attack of the Clones he too says it's because of he was too old when he entered his training. Nothing about his mother, nothing about Padme, nothing about Palpatine. The Jedi Masters were way too ageist to pick on any of that in time.

That's kind of par for course for Anakin's fighting style tho.

Thank you. He needed a incredibly manipulative and cunning Sith Lord setting his eyes on him to get that way. Just starting his training at nine years old wouldn't have done it.

Well then good. I wish it could've made it into the movie, if only her part was made more important, which is what you are arguing against, but alas. Was not to be.

The Sand Raiders were an extrenal threat. It's not like his mother was dead when he got there and the Sand Raiders could've been left alone had Anakin been able to control himself, his mother was alive and being held in their camp. The mission, as it were, still had to happen, he wasn't fighting nature itself.

Anger does not equal always killing people. Hell, Anakin gets evil and angry all the time and he doesn't kill absolutely everyone he fights either. And Obi-Wan can control himself far better then Anakin.

Exactly.

It sure doesn't equate to being calm the whole time.

In other words he decided to kill Anakin through the most slow and painful method readily avialable to him.

Which, to some people, wasn't enough. If you feel PT was perfect beyond the possibility of improvement, don't frequent topics like this.

 

I'm not disputing that. I'm saying the pods were Watto's, not Anakin's.

Which he had trouble letting go of. That's why he was afraid when he left. He was afraid to live his life without his mother. He wants things as they were and fears change.

The only thing said in TESB was that Luke was too old. He never said how old one had to be until TPM. Anything else was supposition.

Uh, no.

KI-ADI: "Your thoughts dwell on your mother."

ANAKIN: "I miss her."

YODA: "Afraid to lose her..I think."

ANAKIN: "What's that got to do with anything?"

YODA: "Everything. Fear is the path to the dark side... fear leads to anger... anger leads to hate.. hate leads to suffering. I sense much fear in you."

That is why he is rejected. And later on when Anakin talks about his visions, Obi-wan thinks that they're dreams and tells him that they will pass in time. He also warns Anakin to keep his thoughts on the matter and not about Padme. And later on, he warns Anakin that his behavior regarding Padme will get him expelled.

Not quite. In AOTC, we know that he loses to Dooku because he's not as good as he thinks he is. He's tossed aside due to his blind rage when he rushes Dooku. In ROTS, he beats Dooku because he uses his anger but has a control over it. It isn't until he fights Obi-wan and becomes increasingly angry at him, that he starts making mistakes.

Not quite. Palpatine was the one who influenced him into thinking that the Force was his solution, but at nine, he still had trouble accepting life and death because of his age.

Except it was random events not controlled by the Sith, nor due to the war. It happened because she chose to go out to pick mushrooms, she was taken and she was tortured to death. Meaning it was going to happen and there was nothing that could be done to stop it. Her time was up.

Which is why Obi-wan is not angry at Anakin.

Do note that they're on a planet which is very nosy and do note a Jedi can feel incredulous.

He let fate decide. Not out of cruelty. But because of his own weaknesses.

That's not why I posted. I'm pointing out that Jedi are controlled beings which is why they don't get emotional. Obi-wan was in control of his emotions in ANH, while only Vader was pissed about their last fight. Yet no one complains about that.

 

Exactly, they are many pods, certainly built for races other then human and Anakin, even when he was even younger then in TPM, happens to fit in all of them.

I dunno where you got that from. The first lines out of his mouth wee about him listening to stories from pilots and how he's gonna fly away from there.

It was no where close to as big a deal as with Anakin, who was nowhere close to Luke in age.

That's what they talk to HIM about. When Qui-Gon gets Anakin report card, Mace says: "No, he's too old."

And yeah, later on, later on. I don't have a problem with them having a problem with Anakin when he's slaughtering Sandpeople and actually doing Padme. Not what we're talking about here.

He kills Dooku and immeadietaly regrets it afterwards. What control?

Yeah, because of his YOUNG age. He could be taught to deal with it. Or expected to learn to deal with it, just by growing up in the real world.

I didn't say it would be an event controlled by the Sith. And it was not going to happen and nothing could be done to stop it. Had Anakin listened to his visions when he started having them instead of the Jedi he'd gotten there days/weeks sooner. She was alive when Anakin found her as is. She'd definitely not sustained whatever wound sealed her fate by the time Anakin was having his visions.

Controlling yourself=/=not experiencing anger.

Why can they feel that but are incapable of feeling anger?

He cut his feet off with his lightsabre and then left him by a lavapit. That's not fate. That his own actions and decisions.

Vader was pissed at Obi-Wan specifically rather then Jedi in general and Obi-Wan goated him into killing him, saying it would only make him stronger. There's definite drama there. It's not personal between Qui-Gon and Maul. There's not even much of a build-up to their fight. And if you are gonna say that Darth Vader is retroactively pissed about their last fight which was written several decades later, I'd argue Obi-Wan isn't really in control of his emotions given how he's divorced Anakin from Vader so heavily in his mind as a coping mechanism.

 

???

 

Maybe it's the novelization scene that's being thought of?

"If the prophesy is true, Anakin will be the one to bring balance to the Force," Mace finished.
"But he still has much to learn. His skills have made him ... well—" Obi-Wan paused, trying to walk that delicate line. "—arrogant. I realise now what you and Master Yoda knew from the beginning. The boy was too old to start the training, and ..."
The frown spreading on Mace Windu's face signaled Obi-Wan that he might be pushing a bit too hard.
"There's something else," Mace observed.
Obi-Wan took a deep and steadying breath. "Master, Anakin and I should not have been given this assignment. I'm afraid Anakin won't be able to protect the Senator."
"Why?'
"He has a ... an emotional attachment with her. It's been there since he was a boy. Now he's confused, and distracted." As he spoke, Obi-Wan started toward his starfighter. He climbed up the cockpit ladder and into his seat.
"So you have already stated," Mace reminded. "And your concerns were weighed properly, and did not change the decision of the Council. Obi-Wan, you must have faith that Anakin will take the right path."

Can't remember how much of it was kept for the movie.

 

Ditch the Chosen One prophecy and "balance". Neither serve any purpose.

 

Notice how big the aliens are? How they're shaped. They're all on Anakin's size. You don't see Quarren, Mon Calamari and Rodians piloting those things.

ANAKIN: "I want to stay with you. I don't want things to change."

ANAKIN: "I can't do it, Mom. I just can't."

And that revelation that Anakin was too old and the introduction of the Younglings shows that there was an age limit.

Because he's developed an attachment to his mother. Here, let me help you out.

"This is obviously a very pivotal scene for Anakin because this is reuniting with his mother and his youth and at the same time dealing with his inability to let go of his emotions and allow himself to accept the inevitable. The fact that everything must change and that things come and go through his life and that he can't hold onto things which is a basic Jedi philosophy that he isn't willing to accept emotionally and the reason that is because he was raised by his mother rather than the Jedi. If he'd have been taken in his first year and started to study to be a Jedi, he wouldn't have this particular connection as strong as it is and he'd have been trained to love people but not to become attached to them. But he has become attached to his mother and he will become attached to Padme and these things are, for a Jedi, who needs to have a clear mind and not be influenced by threats to their attachments, a dangerous situation."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"It's about a good boy who was loving and had exceptional powers, but how that eventually corrupted him and how he confused possessive love with compassionate love. That happens in Episode II: Regardless of how his mother died, Jedis are not supposed to take vengeance. And that's why they say he was too old to be a Jedi, because he made his emotional connections. His undoing is that he loveth too much."

--George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine Interview; June 2005.

When he killed him, it was after Palpatine told him to do it which was in essence, permission. He only regrets it because he's confused. It felt right, but he's been taught it was wrong.

The point is that he had a greater duty to perform and that takes precedence over his mother. He couldn't accept that he failed. That he will be alone now.

"The scene in the garage here, we begin to see that what he's really upset about is the fact that he's not powerful enough. That if he had more power, he could've kept his mother. He could've saved her and she could've been in his life. That relationship could've stayed there if he'd have been just powerful enough. He's greedy in that he wants to keep his mother around, he's greedy in that he wants to become more powerful in order to control things in order to keep the things around that he wants. There's a lot of connections here with the beginning of him sliding into the dark side. And it also shows his jealousy and anger at Obi-Wan and blaming everyone else for his inability to be as powerful as he wants to be, which he hears that he will be, so here he sort of lays out his ambition and you'll see later on his ambition and his dialogue here is the same as Dooku's. He says "I will become more powerful than every Jedi." And you'll hear later on Dooku will say "I have become more powerful than any Jedi." So you're going start to see everybody saying the same thing. And Dooku is kind of the fallen Jedi who was converted to the dark side because the other Sith Lord didn't have time to start from scratch, and so we can see that that's where this is going to lead which is that it is possible for a Jedi to be converted. It is possible for a Jedi to want to become more powerful, and control things. Because of that, and because he was unwilling to let go of his mother, because he was so attached to her, he committed this terrible revenge on the Tusken Raiders."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

He was never meant to save her. He couldn't accept that. That's why he says that he was good at fixing things as a kid.

A Jedi is almost always in control unless provoked.

A Jedi is trained to not feel fear, anger and hate. To banish those emotions in order to function.

He cut off his limbs as a result of ending the fight, but he doesn't slice off his head. He was choosing to not kill him. He leaves him to burn because he will not kill his friend directly, nor break the Code. He is leaving him to the lava because that is letting fate decide if it will kill him or not. And as Lucas said, he thinks that he will die.

Obi-wan isn't goading Vader. He's telling him a statement of fact that the true power of the Force is in death. As to the Vader fight, it was always about their last fight. Lucas wrote it that way to begin with. As far back as the third draft, Lucas had written that Vader was injured by Obi-wan and wanted revenge. His demeanor in ANH is the result of his having grown since then.

VADER: "I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master."

As to the rest...

BEN: "You father was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I have told you was true... from a certain point of view."

Which is the same thing Yoda tells him.

YODA: "Twisted by the dark side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is...Consumed by Darth Vader."

 

We do see a Gran ( but maybe Mawhonic is smaller than other Gran ).

 

And before he knew his mother couldn't come he said he did want to go, and that he dreamed of being a Jedi and that he wanted to see all the stars and that he had listened to pilot stories and all that.

Oh yeah, and his mother had him make up his own mind on the matter and he DID end up going of his own volition. So maybe just maybe, these lines had more to do with his love for mother then a hate of change from his situation on Tatioone that he would forever carry with him.

And this movie, and Anakin's character was the sole reason to make that revelation. They wanted to strike a parallel with Luke, have the Jedi Council and particularly Yoda have misgivings about taking him on as a Jedi, have his character arc only be resolved at the end of the movie, rather then when they get to Corusant, have him fall in love with Padme and be an excellent pilot but also have the drama of a boy getting seperated from his mother at too young an age. And the younger they make Anakin, the younger they need to make Padme, who had already won a planetary election some time before the movie starts. I don't think 9 was the right comprimise.

For the last time. I don't deny that he has a problem. I dislike what part of the problem Lucas has the Jedi endlessly and near exclusively harp on.

Palpatine in no way has the right to give permission to end a captive's life. It's not the Jedi way, it's not the Republic and Anakin damn well knew it. That it felt right has even less to do with anything.

George Lucas commenting on how he ultimately ended up doing things does not make it impossible for him to have ever decided to do them differently. Much less for us to speculate in that direction.

Yoda: "Constantly in motion the future is."

Destiny is not set in stone, not Luke's, not Anakin's, not his Shmi's and not the Tusken Raiders. They are all responsible for their own decisions and failures.

How very restrictive and boring for any story told about them.

Yeah, they do their best to train themselves in that direction but they are not perfect beings.

You don't have to slice a head off to have a direct hand in killing someone. Cutting off his legs with no further treatment , leaving next to a lava pit, only leaving when you see he is on fire make the odds of someone's survival astronomical. Fate had nothing to do with it.

And did Obi-Wan NEED to gain ultimate power? And if he did, why didn't he do it hours or days ago? No. He wanted Vader to strike him down. Or at least confront him one last time. I think there were feelings there rather then a cooly calculated, dispassionate plan alone.

I don't hear anything about a fight here. Lucas didn't feel like tying himself down to that in the final script.

Yoda doesn't get to decide have gets to call himself Anakin Skywalker and who doesn't. Darth Vader is definitely Anakin Skywalker, no doubt about it.

 

I never said that his mother's love wasn't important, but the fact is that he doesn't want things to change. Especially when it affects him negatively.

Lucas already had this mapped out before he switched him from twelve to nine. The bottom line is that Lucas already had a lot of this mapped out before he started writing the thing.

That's because they're intertwined. He's too old because he has attachments.

Palpatine is not the Republic, he's the Empire. He's a Sith and he's turning Anakin into one. That's why he had the right to do it and Anakin did it because he's thinking less as a Jedi and more as Sith.

He didn't want to go in that direction, because that wasn't going to work for him. That's why he dropped Dooku's part in her death, as he realized it became more about his revenge than his just being greedy.

[

People die, that is their destiny. That is what Anakin couldn't accept and why he goes, "I could have saved her" and "I will stop people from dying". It's why Yoda says that death is the way of the Force, as he's preparing for his death. You're going to die, how and why is irrelevant. For Padme, the day she stepped out she was her going out to meet her destiny.

That's why the story is about one Jedi who falls because he is unable to be like Qui-gon and another Jedi who has to avoid becoming his father.

No, which is why Mace is manipulated and Anakin fails his challenge.

But it did because Anakin didn't die from his injuries. He survived and was rescued in time to be treated for his injuries and placed in the suit. Otherwise, he would have died before Palpatine got to him in time.

To become one with the Force, Obi-wan has to die. He's not going to commit hari-kiri on himself so that he could become a ghost and pass on his teachings to Luke. He was already aware that his going off alone may lead to his death, which is why he tells Luke that they're paths are different. He wasn't going to confront Vader, just to shut off the tractor beam and get back to the docking bay. But when Vader stepped out of the shadows, he realized that they would have to fight and he warned him the consequences of his actions. He only stops fighting when he sees Luke and knows that his time has come.

It was obvious to everyone, including the blind that they had fought before.

Actually, he's acknowledging the tenants of the Sith which is to shed their past and embrace who they are.

SIDIOUS: "Henceforth, you shall be known as Darth...Vader."

SIDIOUS: "Welcome home, Lord Tyranus."

He almost never addresses Dooku by his surname, only when he's the Chancellor and only calls Vader by his real name once. And as we see in both versions of TESB, he treats Anakin as a separate person from Vader.