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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Rewriting the Prequels...

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by swrescripted, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Haruss Just a reminder to keep things civil and to watch your language.
     
  2. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Maybe they do start families, but are the Jedi keep tabs. Or they don't.

    There's a difference that you're not getting. Having an attachment as Lucas defines it is the feelings of jealousy, fear, possessiveness, obsessiveness, anger and hate that comes with having people in your life. A desire to hold on to them. What the Jedi teach is to let go of these emotions and to love compassionately and with an unconditional love. They don't discourage friendships. They don't discourage strong bonds. They only discourage families because of how emotional connections that develop can become so overwhelming that they lose sight. We know from "The Unknown" that sibling Jedi were permitted within the Jedi Order as both Tiplar and Tiplee were siblings during the Clone Wars. And Tiplee never lost control when Tup killed Tiplar. So Jedi with familiar bonds being trained in the Temple at the same time, were not unheard of.

    Luke saves Anakin not because of his attachment to him, but by his willingness to show compassion for him. Which the Jedi teach every Padawan throughout the ages.

    No, it doesn't. Fear, anger and hate are the dark side. Anakin turns because he wants to keep Padme alive, for his own selfish reasons is the opposite of fear of being caught. You totally miss the point of the films if you thought it was fear of being caught that turned him evil. Anakin was taught what to do, just as Obi-wan. The Jedi are taught to deal with their emotions, but they're also not going to tempt fate. Just like anyone with an addiction won't tempt fate.

    But the Jedi let go of those attachments which is part of their training. Obi-wan let go of Qui-gon when he defeated Maul. Luke let go of Leia, Han, Obi-wan and everyone else when he threw down his Lightsaber. During their confrontation with Sith, Obi-wan and Luke both started to give in to the dark side, but ultimately they realized that they were wrong. They let go of their emotions and in turn, let go of their attachment to their fathers/father figures. They still loved them, but they let them go.

    Catholic Priests who molest don't do so because they're told not to have sex and not be married. They do it because they're sick individuals. Just like all child molesters, especially the ones who are married and have kids, but still go out and molest children. Hell, there are those whose religion allows marriage and kids, that still molest. Nuns going around and having sex, much less molesting, that's something that I haven't heard of. Monks who take a vow of celibacy don't even leave their monastery. So they're certainly not molesting anyone.
     
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  3. FRAGWAGON

    FRAGWAGON Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Which writer/director would we assign for the samurai rewrite?

    The Western?

    For the samurai I suggest full Tarantino, even though I'm not a fan of his, I'd like to see him tackle the form.

    And let Verbinski redeem himself with the Western version after that dreadful Lone Ranger.

    The Death Star is a train.
     
  4. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    I would not write the prequels but since I love them to much.
     
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  5. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    Up the stakes with Anakin and Padme's relationship.

    No Jar Jar (there are plenty of opportunities for humor elsewhere.)

    Make Dooku a more dangerous threat.

    I'd like see more of the Clone Wars and less politics more battlefield things going on.

    Rewrite the Emperor's dialog to make him more like his name, Sidious.

    And yes, I'd show a lot more of Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship. What works, what does not.
     
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  6. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014

    I agree on the Obi Wan and Anakin part they did not show that friendship.
     
  7. Haruss

    Haruss Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 24, 2014
    Everyone who loves someone wants them well and alive. It's a basic human emotion. To call it selfish, an addiction... He turns evil because there's no one to help him as he fears being open about the problems he's having. Problems that are natural and not evil in anyway, love is not evil, it's not "teh dark side" no matter how much Lucas wants it to be. Anakin not being open and thus not in position to recieve help, advice, proper guidance WHILE the problems arise is the fault of the Jedi and no one else. Period. Theory is one thing, practice is another. Theory failed in practice here. Jedi teachings fult once again.

    And maybe if Yoda & Obi didn't teach Anakin to hide something that is considered 'undesirable' by the Order things would've been different. But they weren't.

    No one was even talking about criminals and molesters. We're talking normal people who get involved with other members of the clergy, or civil employees in the places they reside, or friends/people they got to know, or go to brothels. It happens all the time. Love, relationships, sex, basic human needs & emotions. You can't untrain it and asking people to abstain is just asking for trouble and very unfair. Especially in the context of Jedi who are children when they go into the Order. I mean really, the decision to be raised in environment like that was made for them. Terrible, unrealistic & seemingly obvlious to human nature writing across the entire issue on George's part
     
  8. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014

    [face_rofl]
     
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  9. FRAGWAGON

    FRAGWAGON Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 3, 2012
    For TPM, Padme can be a character like the princess in Hidden Fortress.
     
  10. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    You truly don't get what Anakin's fall is all about. Anakin becomes a Sith simply for power. He wants the power to cheat death. To stop people from dying. It has nothing to do with hiding his marriage. There is no revenge on Anakin's part. He simply wants the power to stop Padme from dying, since he couldn't stop his mother from dying.

    "So what all these movies are about is: greed. Greed is a source of pain and suffering for everybody. And the ultimate state of greed is the desire to cheat death."

    --George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 213

    There's a difference between not wanting someone to die and selling your soul to keep someone from dying. People, even Jedi, are taught that people will die. That is what Yoda tells Luke in ROTJ and what he tells Anakin in ROTS.

    YODA: "Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them, do not. Miss them, do not. Attachment leads to jealousy. The shadow of greed, that is."


    YODA: "Soon will I rest. Yes, forever sleep. Earned it, I have."

    LUKE: "Master Yoda, you can't die."

    YODA: "Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong! Twilight is upon me and soon night must fall. That is the way of things... the way of the Force."

    But Anakin refuses to accept the natural course of life is that people die. And it is because he has been told most of his life that he will be the strongest of all Jedi, by Palpatine. So when he faces death, he finds that the only recourse is to fulfill his promise to stop people from dying.

    ANAKIN: "I should be! Someday I will be... I will be the most powerful Jedi ever! I promise you, I will even learn to stop people from dying."

    And Palpatine offers him what the Jedi will not...

    PALPATINE: "Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi. Learn to know the dark side of the Force, Anakin, and you will be able to save your wife from certain death."

    Anakin asked Yoda what to do regarding his visions. Yoda knows that it is someone close to him.

    YODA: "Premonitions . . . premonitions . . . Hmmmm . . . these visions you have . . . "

    ANAKIN: "They are of pain, suffering, death . . . "

    YODA: "Yourself you speak of, or someone you know?"

    ANAKIN: "Someone . . ."

    YODA: " . . . close to you?"

    ANAKIN: "Yes."

    Even if he told him that he was married to Padme, the response would be the same.

    ANAKIN: "What must I do, Master Yoda?"

    YODA: "Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose."

    That is a key part of life. I've suffered through loss, as I'm sure you have. I've lost my stepfather, my brother, all but one grandparent, an aunt and soon I will lose an uncle. But a key part of life is knowing that while loss is imminent, we must not dwell on that loss. We must keep living until the time comes to say goodbye and then move on past it. We must learn to deal and we must make an effort to do so. Anakin didn't want to make that effort, because he didn't want to accept death was a part of life. And so his unwillingness to accept nature leads him to the dark side.

    Love isn't evil. Possessive love is. The kind of love where you refuse to let go of someone, whether it is through death or through an end of a relationship. Unconditional love is real love. The kind where you accept loss. Where you accept the end of that relationship. Where you don't think of yourself and only your self. Where you are not selfish.


    They didn't teach him to hide. He had every opportunity to tell them, but he refused to. They wouldn't have kicked him out. Obi-wan even knows that he has a relationship with Padme, just not that they're expecting until it is too late. That is why he went to Padme before he left for Utapau.

    ANAKIN: "I sense someone familiar . . . Obi-Wan’s been here, hasn’t he?"

    PADME: "He came by this morning."

    ANAKIN: "What did he want?"

    PADME: "He’s worried about you."

    As to what was said...

    OBI-WAN: "It’s Anakin . . . He’s becoming moody and detached. He’s been put in a difficult position as the Chancellor’s representative . . . but I think it’s more than that. I was hoping he may have talked to you."

    PADME: "Why would he talk to me about his work?"

    OBI-WAN: "Neither of you is very good at hiding your feelings either."

    PADME: "Don’t give me that look."

    OBI-WAN: "I know how he feels about you."

    PADME: "What did he say?"

    OBI-WAN: "Nothing. He didn’t have to."

    PADME: "I don’t know what you’re talking about."

    OBI-WAN: "I know you both too well. I can see you two are in love. Padme, I’m worried about him. I fear your relationship has confused him. He’s changed considerably since we returned . . . Padme, I’m not telling the Council about any of this. I … I hope I didn’t upset you. We’re all friends, I care about both of you . . ."

    PADME: "Thank you, Obi-Wan."

    OBI-WAN: "Please do what you can to help him."

    He also knew that Anakin wouldn't tell him, but he wouldn't have turned him in. And Yoda believed that Obi-wan was the one that was close to Anakin.

    Members of the clergy that who have vows of celibacy/chastity don't get involved with others. It doesn't happen all the time and they wind up leaving. Those whose religious faith allows marriage, that's a different story. They're allowed to do that. Civil employees have to follow basic rules and guidelines. That means no fraternizing in the work place. Likewise, certain other relationships are not allowed because it can be problematic. Such as a lawyer and a judge, due to judicial misconduct which would be a determent to criminal cases. A boss sleeping with an employee varies depending on the companies guidelines. Senators are not supposed to cheat on their spouses and definitely shouldn't be going to brothels. Former President Bill Clinton should not have been having sexual relations while in office and there was an investigation into misconduct during his time as governor.

    It's one thing to have relationships and sex, but people need to show a modicum of restraint and have to follow a moral turpitude clause in their contracts.

    In the case of the Jedi, this goes beyond that. The Force is a power fueled by emotion, especially negative emotions. Fear, anger, hate, jealously, obsession and greed. These are the dark side of the Force. Possessive love is the dark side.

    Life is unfair. And the fact is that people have and will continue to abstain from sex. It won't lead to any problems. And within the Jedi Order, they're allowed to have sex. They just cannot get married and have kids intentionally. Nothing wrong with that. There are people in this world who don't get married. Who don't want kids. Who don't want a serious relationship. Hell, there are even those who aren't interested in sex at all.

    Uh, your parents make your decisions for you as a baby. What religion you are, much less wanting to be part of a religion. What school you go to. What you wear. What you eat. Who you should be friends with. How you should dress. The age you should date someone. What you should watch, read or computer time. The parents gave their children to the Jedi willingly, because they wanted a better life for them. And it is important for a Jedi to learn the Force at a young age, so that they can learn how to use it properly and not be tempted by the dark side.
     
  11. Haruss

    Haruss Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2014
    And during that time was an evil dictator trying to use you and convince you to do evil things the only person you felt you could be honest with? Cause you know, that's the situation Anakin ends up in. Not to mention that not everyone is as strong as you may be and some people/young aduts esp. may need more support/proper word/guidance from people among them, obviously only the people who they don't feel they can't be honest with.

    And that's what the Order should teach, and let sensible love, marriage, family etc happen. Banning it all because one may develop posessive love is just silly. Why not "ban" people from lifting a finger at all because one may end up doing something wrong with it lol...

    If that was the case he would be honest with them and open about everything. He wasn't, not exactly sure what you're arguing here. They made him fear to be open with them about having pregnant wife. Their mistake. Obi-Wan's mistake was not to discuss the situation with Anakin even though he already knew. It doesn't matter if he felt "Anakin won't admit", who cares, he knew, he should help his Padawan, not act like he doesn't know.

    So why not teach that instead of 'banning' all love, marriage huh?

    This is just being purely delusional.

    Do you understand the difference beteween someone's free choice not to have kids, between asexual people AND forbidding someone love/kids/marriage, making the choice for those people for them at the age they can't make such a choice and indoctrinating them with such rules for years lol? Seriously, in an attempt to defend bad movies of your beloved franchise that you can't accept that it has flawed entries you're just gonna deny reality and act like people are robots that can be reprogrammed.

    And most smart parents know not to try enforce their way without a single question when kids hit puberty and that people are NOT their parents' clones and will rebel, have their own preferences, needs, desires and that no one is a robot that can be programmed in every way. When kids start growing up and becoming people of their own, smart parents offer advice, guidance, can try help steer in different direction or at least more positive/beneficial direction of the one the teen/young adult has taken, intervene in actually serious situations (guess what, someone wanting kids/marriage is NOT a dangerous situation!), listen, ensure they can always talk to them, to be honest/open with them even when they're doing something that they didn't teach them or desired etc. Not act oblivious and be delusional that just because they're the parents it means the kids are pre-programmed clones for the entire life and that the parents are always right in everything. Now replace parents with with Jedi Order.
     
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  12. Crystalia

    Crystalia Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2013
    anyone think it would work NOT to have "darth Sidious" in TPM and AOTC and only referenced by name? Thus making the reveal Palps is sidious a bit less obvious?
     
  13. Empress Shatterpoint

    Empress Shatterpoint Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Interesting suggestion, Crystalia. I think it might have worked depending on how it would have been executed. Speaking for myself, I rather liked the 'mysterious cloaked figure' of TPM & AOTC (Knew it was Sidious by the end of TPM because of the camera focusing too long on Palps after Mace's 'was he the apprentice, or the master?' at Gui-Gon's funeral, though). Many people saw the nose and mouth resemblance with Palpatine so the twist was ruined for them. I think a better idea than removing Sidious from screen before ROTS would have been to have the hood cover his face completely. That way there would still be the impact of that 'mysterious menacing figure' without obvious physical hints to point toward Palps.
     
  14. FRAGWAGON

    FRAGWAGON Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    What if we rewrite Jar Jar as Gabby Hayes?
     
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  15. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Having support wouldn't change one's feelings for power. Anakin had support, he just didn't want it. He had his wife, he had his best friend and he had the droids. That wasn't enough for him.

    We don't have a power that is fueled by emotion. The Sith were created because of greed. Because of attachments. The Jedi taught their Padawns to love without becoming attached. But Anakin was too old to begin the training. He had his attachments and he was unable to find the balance within himself until his final actions in ROTJ.

    Obi-wan did try to reach out to Anakin, but he brushed him aside. That's why he went to Padme, because he believed that she could get through to Anakin where he couldn't. That's why he allowed their relationship, because he believed it was good for him when it wasn't. They didn't make him fear about having a pregnant wife. He wasn't even afraid until he saw her die, that is when the fear began and it was a result of his using the dark side to kill Dooku.

    The Jedi did teach compassionate love. Anakin was taught that. He just confused compassionate love with possessive love. Marriage was banned because too many Jedi had fallen to the dark side, out of fear for their loved ones.

    Why? What problems will arise from abstaining? Post proof.

    I don't think you understand. The Jedi can have sex as Lucas said. That is why Qui-gon asked who Anakin's father was. He assumed that a Jedi had fathered the boy. Having families isn't important. Many don't and many who are forbidden don't do so.

    They're not programming robots. They're teaching Jedi to not abuse their powers. The dark side is the result of that abuse. That's been the moral of the story since the beginning. In the real world, having kids can be dangerous to the health of the mother. And in the fictional world, it can be dangerous for a Jedi. That's what happened to Anakin. He wanted power because he was afraid to lose his wife and he choose to embrace the dark side because he was selfish.
     
  16. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    The Jedi being "peacekeepers with sexcapades" makes them cool. :D

    I never can wrap my brain around the defense of allowing oneself to be ruled by emotion and use it as the primary catalyst in all decision-making. Which is what the Jedi taught its members to avoid.

    Not compassion or agape love.
     
  17. redlightning

    redlightning Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2014
    The movie Seventh Son is starting to make me think that the galaxy was not really supposed to know about the existence of the Jedi really. They were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic, but will also did so from outside the realm of the galactic public. Eliminating them would have been simple and quite for the Empire.
     
  18. FRAGWAGON

    FRAGWAGON Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 3, 2012
    The bongo as stagecoach.
     
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  19. Haruss

    Haruss Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 24, 2014
    How do you know that? Especially considering that most advices he's been hearing was coming from galactic dictator? Most people on the planet have done something wrong/immoral in their lives, yet most don't go into serious crimes or repeat past mistaks as most have a lot of people around them who provide them various opinions/examples/advices and context to make better choices in life in future.

    C'mon... o_O

    Yes we do, credit cards, guns etc. The Galaxy Far Far away has credit chips and blasters. Most don't use them completly irresponsibly in emotional situations in both galaxies, regardless of attacthements or having sex, families or kids.

    No, but they made him fear to tell them that he's afraid.

    Sorry but are you seriously questioning that problems arise from life-long sexual frustration, especially among men? [face_hypnotized]

    So the conclusion of your argument is that having kids in real life should be banned as well because it MAY be dagnerous to mother's life, and the kids' parents may use guns or credit cards irresonsibly to take over the world if the kid gets sick and they're very scared of losing the child. C'mon.
     
  20. Messi

    Messi Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2015

    1 - Another Director;
    2 - Some changes in the story (Anakin should it be older, no midichlorians, do not kill Maul, etc...);
    3 - Less CGI (Clonetroopers and the battle of Geonosis was too much);
    4 - Puppet Yoda from TESB and ROTJ;
    5 - Another cast (Jake and Hayden were a bad choice);
     
  21. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Anakin only listened to Palpatine because he told him what he wanted to hear, which is that the Force can stop people from dying. That's why he went to Yoda in the first place. He wanted Yoda to tell him how to stop death from coming to those he loved. But Yoda tells him instead to let go of his fears and accept the course of nature. That's why later on before Palpatine reveals himself, Anakin says that he believes that Palpatine is right. That the Jedi are withholding certain teachings from him, teachings that can save Padme and this is why Palpatine reveals himself to Anakin.

    "When you get down to where we are right now in the story, you basically get somebody who’s going to make a pact with the Devil, and it’s going to be a pact with the Devil that says, 'I want the power to save somebody from death. I want to be able to stop them from going to the river Styx, and I need to go to a god for that, but the gods won’t do it, so I’m going to go down to Hades and get the Dark Lord to allow me to have this power that will allow me to save the very person I want to hang on to.' You know, it’s Faust. So Anakin wants that power, and that is basically a bad thing. If you’re going to sell your soul to save somebody you love, that’s not a good thing. That’s as we say in the film, unnatural. You have to accept that natural course of life. Of all things. Death is obviously the biggest of them all. Not only death for yourself but death for the things you care about."

    --George Lucas, quoted in J. Windolf, “Star Wars: The Last Battle,” Vanity Fair, 2005

    Yoda and the Council here are the gods, while Palpatine is the devil.

    Right, but then there people who don't listen to the advice of others. Who think they know better and don't want to hear what they have to offer. Anakin disregarded Padme who told him that he didn't need to save her.

    ANAKIN: "I have found a way to save you."

    PADME: "Save me?"

    ANAKIN: "From my nightmares."

    PADME: "Is that what’s bothering you?"

    ANAKIN: "I won’t lose you, Padme."

    PADME: "I’m not going to die in childbirth, Ani. I promise you."

    ANAKIN: "No, I promise you! I am becoming so powerful with my new knowledge of the Force, I will be able to keep you from dying."

    He had become selfish and was continuing to grow more and more selfish.



    Why? The droids are family to him. He created Threepio from the parts of an old Protocol droid and was his friend in his youth and still his friend now. Artoo became his friend first at Naboo, then years later during the war.



    Not like this. The dark side of the Force changes a person completely. It consumes that person and will eradicate almost all good within them. That is why Yoda says that it will consume you. This is why Palpatine is a shadow and evil incarnate. This is why Anakin goes from the good man that he was and becomes the monster that is Vader.



    Only because of his greed. If he really cared about Padme, he would give up his place in the Jedi Order. Less than a year earlier, he was contemplating leaving the Jedi Order when his Padawan told him that she was not going to return to the Jedi Order, following her ordeal with Barriss Offee. If he was truly selfless, he would give it up and let them know the truth. But he wasn't.



    Considering that many out there haven't gone on a killing or raping spree, I'd say that it is not that big a deal. And as Lucas himself said, the Jedi aren't celibate.




    No, I'm saying that having children can be dangerous. That's why constant medical attention is required during the duration of the pregnancy to make sure that there aren't any serious problems. Some women just aren't meant to have children. Sometimes women who become pregnant suffer from illnesses due to the pregnancy. Some women have a serious disease where in if they carry a child to term, they'll die. Diabetics are especially prone to this.

    But be that as it may, it is not a requirement in the world to have children. Some people will go their whole lives without having kids, because they don't want them. Either because they don't think they'd be a good parent, or because they don't want to give up the life they have in favor of settling down. Some people don't want to have a long term relationship because they're too independent and set in their ways.
     
  22. Haruss

    Haruss Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2014
    Well duh, thus Yoda, Obi and other should be only more open and reasuring with Anakin to ensure negative influence wouldn't trump the good.

    They're droids, they won't give him life changing advices, good or bad.

    So can money, guns & violence etc.

    Everyone is selfish to some extenct. And I don't see any reason why should he give up Padme. Especially when the choice to be intudcted into no-marriage/kids Order was made for him.

    Nope, but they have developed other deep emotional/human-relations issues.

    Again, do you understand the fundamental difference between someoen's personal choice not to get married and/or have kids and/or biological reasons on one hand and being inducted into no-love/marriage/kids Order of monks at the age of 1-9 and having that choice made FOR onself? Do you approve of anyone making such fundamental choice for anyone and trying to indoctrinate them with no-love/marriage/kids rules for years? This is even more immoral situation than with the Catholic clergy, at least priests and nuns made that choice as adults (as stupid as it was and as delucional, short-sighted & cruel as the Catholic church is about expecting that rule to be enforced). Here we have kids being inducted into the Order and having the rules and pressure laid on them for decades.
     
  23. Darth Schlotkin

    Darth Schlotkin Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Solution: Don't watch them!

    Btw, there are more things i would change in the OT before anything in the PT.
    (ex. i would edit-out Tarkin giving orders to Vader and i would edit-out the ROTJ mother-dialogue of Luke/Leia because it contradicts ROTS & ANH.)

    P.S. I like all 6. as a whole, and my favorite part of this ''6 film entity'' is ROTS.
     
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  24. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

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    Jun 8, 2006
    I think it's a creative question and a worthy one. :)
     
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  25. FRAGWAGON

    FRAGWAGON Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 3, 2012
    Not creative enough, unfortunately.
     
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