ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

You might not necessarily be wrong, we'll find out in two years if JJ chooses to continue what Rian established or takes a different path.

 

It’s going to be a long two years. I just hope that whatever JJ does he makes it interesting.

 

Agreed.

 

In this case, Daisy would have said "Kylo had been a scum" and then goes on for but Rey believes he wants to return to the light. "had been" and "is" are not something native English tongue would use wrong.

And it's interesting in the post Daisy commented that Kylo "wants redemption" because really even for Star Wars fans, "return to the light" is the phase most of fans use. Whether Kylo wants to return to the light is something fans are still debating about. "Kylo wants redemption" just doesn't sound like something Daisy would say before the movie was released.

 

I couldn't help it. I Google translated the entire article. What's interesting is that they have apparently interviewed everyone, so part of me wonders if some of this is a compilation from other interviews as a lot of things everyone is saying are similar to things they have said in other interviews. The claim about the TIME.com reporter conducting an "exclusive interview" is interesting.

ETA: I had posted the translation, but I feel it might be too much of a copyright violation.

 

By the way......your translation is wrong. It really reads as below:
凯洛 Kǎi Luò (Kylo)
是 Shì (is)
个 Gè (a)
人渣 Rén Zhā (scum/assh*le)

Not sure what you meant by "isolative language", but I googled it and google says Mandarin Chinese is an analytic language just like English. Never trust Google Translate when translating Chinese my friend!

 

Rey gets flustered when she sees Kylo without a shirt, stares deeply into his eyes whenever they're together, attempts to reassure him multiple times, cries with they touch through the Force as if she's suddenly found where she belongs, attacks Luke to defend him, gets dressed up to meet him, gets way too close to him and stares at his lips in the elevator, talks in a soft, intimate tone, breaks down in tears again when he "goes where she can't follow", is hesitant before she ultimately shuts the door and stares at the lightsaber they broke as if all hope is lost.

Those of you trying to say the movie doesn't depict Rey's feelings for Kylo... just LOL.

And really? Retcon? JJ's going to "throw it all out"? That's the best defence these days? Yikes.

 

Wikipedia agrees:

--

Yeah, I agree. There is *something* going on between these two and it's not just on Kylo's end.

 

I'd say let's start with this http://www.slashfilm.com/subverting-snoke-expectations/
(there are other interviews, but words and reasoning are almost identical)

RJ: "Kylo’s arc in this movie, besides his relationship with Rey, [...] I saw as the big arc for Kylo breaking down this kind of unstable foundation that he’s on and then building him to where by the end of the film he’s no longer just a Vader wannabe. But he’s stepped into his own as kind of a quote-unquote villain, but a complicated villain that you understand, right? So with that in mind... Kylo’s gotta get to a place of actual power the ultimate expression of that would be him ascending beyond his master [...]
It was thinking about Kylo’s path, thinking about where I wanted him to be at the end of the movie to set him up for the next film.
And thinking okay, that means we’re gonna clear away this slightly more familiar dynamic of the Emperor and the pupil.
Clear the boards from that, and then that’s much more exciting going into [Episode IX], the notion of now we just have
Kylo as the one that they have to deal with. .."​

Or this one (almost the same) http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/12/21/star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-explains-snokes-big-scene

RJ: ... what I wanted to do with Kylo was to take him and basically knock out the kind of shaky foundation from under his feet, and
build him by he end of the movie into someone who’s standing up as a credible, but complex villain.” [...]
“He’s taken the reins, basically. He’s no longer a Vader pretender. He’s somebody who actually is going to be going
into the next movie [as] someone who’s taken control and taken the reins of everything."​

So we cannot escape from the notion that RJ wanted to set up Kylo as the main villain for 9, the main threat "they"
will have to deal with in IX.

To make a comparison, the set up for IX puts him in the place of Sidius. Not in that of Anakin/Vader.
To make a comparison, the set up for IX of the dynamics between Kylo and Rey "may" look more like
that of Anakin and Sidius in III than everyone else.

But even if that won't exactly the case, because characters are not the same, still what we're going to have
is not biggest villain but him in that movie.
And you need the great villain and biggest threat to last like that until the very end... if you want to make a good movie.

We also know, that he is someone who feels alone and betrayed by the ones he loved.
Now... if he had feelings for Rey in 8, then are we 100% sure that he will still hold a candle for her?

Because until now, his reaction to those who left him alone and to those who "betrayed" him from his pov
(and his pov is all that matters) was... rage.

So sure: he may still hold a candle but he may also feel in hanger with her.
Just because he did offer to that "no-body" a place and that no-body dared to refuse the kind offer.

And if Rey will ever feel any guilt, she may feel guilt towards the Rebels (because to some degrees, Luke created Kylo,
but she created the Supreme Leader Kylo the moment she decided to go to him and enter that room because of the interpretation
she gave to her vision) but not towards him. Because she did offer him a way out. And he refused.

So sure the dynamics is going to be intersting.
And I'd say, the moment you decided that she is not a Sky/Solo
you have to find a way to make this relationship interesting, you have to add something else...

But first RJ was free to make of her whoever he wanted https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...-rey-parents-rian-johnson?mbid=social_twitter

"“I went through all the possibilities of who her parents could be,” Johnson said. “I made a list, with the upsides and downsides”
"Rey learning that she was related to someone like Luke Skywalker would have been “the easiest thing she could possibly hear.”
“The hardest thing to hear is, ‘Nope, this is not gonna define you,’” Johnson added. “And, in fact, Kylo is gonna use this to try and undercut your confidence so you’ll feel you have to lean on him for your identity... you’re gonna have to make the choice to find your own identity in this story.”
​

If so, there was not endgame (not even Reylo) enstablished by TFA, because he could have made her a Sky or a Solo, had he wanted.
But beside that, the point was making her a no-body so that Kylo could have "use" that to undercut her confidence and push her to
to lean on him. This is a nice way to say: to manipulate/deceive her.
To the Los Angels Times RJ compared that offer... not to a proposal, but...
.

" In that moment, for Kylo to be able to use that [information] as a knife and twist it to try and get what he wants, felt like the most dramatically potent option"​

When he said that Kylo wasn't playing chess... he said that to reply the question "was he telling the truth about her parents?"
Meaning, according to RJ, that Kylo was telling the truth (that is equal to not playing chess): that he really saw
her parents being no-bodies that sold her.
Not that he wasn't using that information to get what he wanted: to turn her.

And I don't even think that has to meen that he has not feelings.
Manipulative people have feelings. Sociopaths have not feelings and Kylo is not a sociopath.
He's another kind of "bad" guy, of complex... villain.

So, if we want to foresee how/where IX may go, we have to start from these kind of premises.
And again, I won't say reylo is impossible.
But I believe it's not at all a given.

 

I'm personally having issues with seeing Kylo as "credible." Like watching Kylo lead the FO at the end was sort of embarrassing. We'll see if Kylo can pull out some leadership skill set that he really doesn't appear to have. On the bright side, it'll be awful leader Kylo vs. awful leader Poe. These are like two people who should not be in charge of anything, at least not in upper leadership positions.

(Though it seems no one in the FO is worthy of leading. They are all morons. Snoke was the best they had, and he wasn't good either.)

 

I think Hux would be the best bet to be honest.

 

IX will probably make the awful leaders surprisingly good leaders despite how their behaviors in the previous film or two don't really inspire confidence in their abilities.

It's actually that they are diamonds in the rough, IX will show... *snorts*

 

I'm hoping for a time jump. To show either growth or lack of in either leader.

 

Yeah, diamonds in the rough. lol.

 

I read somewhere that the article misstates Daisy's response to the question about her and Poe. Is that correct?

 

YESSSSS!
Exactly! Oh Xyloren you made my day!

I knew I heard it somewhere. I am not a musician but I am Music sensitive and tones help me to remember things.
I can't wait to hear what that genius of J. Williams creates from this two notes and the strings (perhaps intertwined with Rey's and the Force theme?).
It will be pure magic for sure.

 

The love theme is there but unfinished because their story is unfinished.

Therefore the lack of a full love theme, but the notes are there, it is subtle if you bother to listen.
We hear it in the hand-scene which, many of us agree, is the most romantic and intimate scene in the movie (unless you regard it as a shake-hands then you may have missed the music behind it), it's 5 notes from Padme and Anakin's theme, just before the Force theme when they touch. Two notes of Padme and Anakin's theme are the first two of Kylo's theme.

It's hidden in the proposal scene as well: you hear the full Kylo's theme (the esitant one, very clearly) when he asks her to join him to rule together. Then gives way to a 4 notes of Padme and Anakin's theme played with the brass (not strings) when he says she may have hidden the truth of her parents and prompts her to say it and then the notes go somewhere else. It's a hint, unfinished business.

@xyloren thank you for explaining it so clearly!

 

Four notes that are shared by a love theme (and who knows how many other tracks JW has done is not an “unfinished love theme.”

John Williams doesn’t do “unfinished love themes.” He writes actual love themes and treats them like he does his other themes. He also, to my knowledge, doesn’t recycle love themes.

(Also there tends to always be “unfinished business” at some point in an onscreen romance, unless a couple go from utterly disinterested directly to madly in love.)

Again, this is like “R+J love theme in The Abduction!” No it wasn’t - JW thought they were related. Same thing re people hearing “Across the Stars” played across Rey’s and Kylo’s themes - he thought they were related, so obviously not. If JW was deliberately evoking Anakin and Padme there, in other words...it was not because he anticipated and sort of romance between Rey and Kylo...and it would further suggest that if he was deliberately evoking Anakin and Padme in other music, it was for a reason other than romance

Maybe a 4-note similarity suggests other thngs in JW’s music. It does not = “proto-romance theme.” and from what I’ve seen and heard, no such thing exists in SW musical “canon.” It’s a theory about the music that has no actual basis in how JW composes.

 

Due to the time difference and work, I haven't had a chance to reply to this sooner...

I think it's completely obvious that it is being translated directly from English; there's nothing revelatory about this. Further, I mentioned to several friends who post here that colloquial and slang terms may be involved because the translation is odd; so you're saying nothing I didn't already know.

Whether the interview is genuine or not is moot; and the interviews you linked to are clearly edited, so that proves/disproves nothing.

Furthermore, I am not American; I am a Londoner born and raised like Daisy and I can tell you that 'scum' is a very common insult in the UK and just the sort of word I could see Daisy using. She swears all the time and says much worse stuff!

Which is the translation I gave. Not really sure what your point is here tbh...

I hardly think conflating a Chinese measure word: '个' and the character for person : 人 is going to radically alter that. It has the word for 'Kylo' followed by the copula followed by the word for scum. Those are the key words. I never claimed fluency, but I was hoping for a more eloquent translation.

An isolating language is one that doesn't inflect; Chinese doesn't inflect. 'Analytic' means something different even though it is a related term. English is generally thought of as an analytic language because it doesn't have noun cases and lots of complex word mutations for example, though it does have some inflection, hence it is not isolating.

 

I can see your point Oncafar... but as you know, I believe that the writer/director's purpose of those characters arcs in 8 are one thing
and the execution another.
One may say the same thing about Luke. I really believe RJ when he says that what he wanted was to send off Luke in the most
compelling way. That he wanted to make not just a legend of him, but a myth. The movie finale is clear.
But the "balance" whitin the movie, some specific choices, didn't help to make all of this that clear for many people.
About Luke, about Kylo, about Poe.

That doesn't mean one has to dislike the movie (I have many problems with it, but it's fair not to have them)
It only means that if the goals were those... not every choice was the best one to reach them.

But @PrincessKenobi is right. A time jump may help a lot.

And talking about the Rebellion... maybe to destroy almost all of it, killing Akbar, Holdo, all the command chain
but Leia, and leave her with a few people, was how RJ intended to set up an ascension even there...
Just because there's no one else around anymore. Same with Luke and Rey.
Sure, I think we're going to meet other people... but, those on the MF are the veterans...so...

About Hux, I don't think you can make of him the next big villain.
And above all, I don't think that was the set up.
But I think the set up is (or there's enough set up to go down this path) for a conflict
within the FO. A huge one.
That also fits well with Kylo's behavior towards those he identifies as... traitors.

And I think that may be something that may build up a finale in which Rebeles and Supreme Leader agree
at least on something: to erase what is left of the FO.
How involved (and/or redeemed) Kylo/Ben may be at that point... it's to see.

But one thing is for sure: if there are people who may offer him to spare his life, those are Rey but Poe too.
Given their personal relationships with his parents.

There is one thing that is worth to notice: that Shara Bey had died, is something we know because of
Before the Awekening. But that novel, was written when TFA was in post-production and TLJ's script was already made.
And in TLJ sure there's the ring Poe's wearing, but there is also that scene Leia in a coma-Poe holding his hand.
I think the point was to underline the surrogate-mother/surrogate-child relationship.
That is why they killed off Shara and that is why they gave Poe that ring.. not because he has to give it to someone else
(maybe, maybe not). But the point was: this is guy who lost his mother, therefore he sees Leia as mother figure.
But you don't have any of it in TFA, you have it in TLJ.
So the backstory was set not because of TFA, but because of TLJ, whose script was done and known by the Story Group at the time the novel was written.
Same for the Force Tree. That is something that doesn't play any part in TFA.
It's a TLJ's thing, but is there, in a comic that came out before TFA, because it was writtern
in that same time gap.

What you have in TFA are the 2 interrogations scenes. And as said, to me, that make perfect sense... more over
after the TLJ. it's Kylo (the mask = the persona) facing his true self: the legacy of his family, in the Republic and among the Jedi.

 

Re: Mark’s comment...

His tone is clearly mocking. Hence the preceeding “Hahaha...”

I still don’t see why a Chinese news outlet would have a real interview with SW cast members and then add fake/i] interview segments in the transcript. That sounds absolutely bizarre to me.

I saw that Mark responded to a tweet about this. He said he had no “specific memory” (of the interview or that segment, I don’t recall, although considering the context I believe the latter), but he didn’t deny anything and in fact he said (and I believe these are his exact words) “Sounds like something Daisy and I might have said.”

So, uh, yeah...sounds like it was an accurate representation of Mark and Daisy’s opinion of the prospect of a Rey/Kylo romance...

(To be fair, Mark did joke about “romantic tension” between Rey and Kylo. He also joked about “Rey Skywalker.” It’s more Daisy’s opinion that’s key here, and I trust both the interview and Mark’s confirmation that her view on Reylo runs along those lines.)

 

I hear the two notes of Kylo's theme at 1:37 and 1:55 but the rest is not from the hand-scene. This is not what they have used in the movie. At least I do not hear it.

A blogger musicologist pointed out that we heard the touching-hand theme in TFA, after she pulled the sword from the snow and Kylo watches her. In the novelization it would be when he says: "It is you". If you want to read the full essay go here.

 

Just to let you know that the word "scum" is a common word in the UK, and it's absurd for people to claim that us Brits don't use it. Hell, there is even a BRITISH made film called Scum starring Ray Winstone.

 

I do not know why you would need no time skip this time. I am hoping for a good 5 year time skip.