ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Just to add a quick note - it appears that the line was in the movie and edited out last-minute. PH actually thought the line was in the finished movie.

 

Whatever makes people feel better is fine with me.

 

Probably one of the wisest posts I’ve seen on this forum.

 

If this is true, then it puts a whole new complexion on things. Do you know how long ago roughly that he said this?

 

@mlsw regardless of intent TLJ leads me to votes of "no confidence" in Poe and Kylo leadership. If I had to take orders from Poe (and he had no oversight) I would seriously consider leaving the Resistance. The FO has awful leaders in general and it's sad that people continue to obey them.

 

2016 some time, I think?

Basically, PH tweeted that he saw that people were making a big deal of the “It is you” line in the book, but that it was also in the movie. If he thought it was in the theatrical release, even though it wasn’t, then it must have been edited out of the movie at a pretty late point in the process.

There were a few other late-stage changes as well, of course. The lil Rey flashback was added in summer of 2015 - I’m guessing at the request of RJ. We know RJ asked for a droid swap. And something from the final Luke/Rey cliff top scene was cut because it clashed with TLJ in some way. (Note that there are a couple of versions of this last report. They don’t perfectly line up, so it’s up to you to decide which you feel is more accurate.)

 

I heard Daisy Ridley in an interview for another indie she-fi movie. She's such a pretty lady with a foul mouth!

I do not expect ANY of the actors involved in TLJ say something different at this stage. Honestly.
We all have seen how the film ended. There are so many open questions and the script for Ep. IX hasn't been delivered yet.
So this is where we are:

• A new Supreme Leader kneeling in the salt after showing what a bad leader he is
• A girl running away with 20 survivors who's very angry at the new Supreme Leader for a series of circumstances (I would add angry at herself as well)
• An ashamed Jedi become legend through heroic death (but who didn't want to be a legend in the first place)
• A broken sword
• A broken Rebellion
• A First Order in serious trouble

(Thank Goodness the Falcon still flyes and kick butts)

It would be interesting to hear what Adam Driver has to say if asked the same question. It would be in his style to say "I do not know. I like to be surprised." (as he already did by after TFA) or "Well, he's the Supreme Leader now. He has really other priorities in his mind, like killing everybody to show his power".

Honestly. They are under contract to Disney, which is such a paranoid to keep the script a secret. They are not even entitled to express their own opinion which can give anything away from the still untold story.

 

It would be helpful if there was video of Daisy's comment from China, because it's unclear if she's giving her opinion or simply summarizing where the characters are in TLJ. The only direct statement comes from her Rolling Stone interview, where she says: "The relationship between Kylo and Rey is awesome." https://www.rollingstone.com/movies...story-on-the-dark-new-star-wars-movie-w512703
That combined with her liking Reylo art, and her smiling "we shall see" response to the romance question on Ellen (which was shortly after she first met with Rian to discuss TLJ's script), leads me to believe that she is on board with Reylo. But her opinion may change depending on the course of the next movie. She will have many more opportunities to address the issue.

If your point is that TLJ sets up Kylo as the main villian for Episode IX, and that weighs against Reylo, Kylo being an unredeemed villian didn't prevent the romance in TLJ. I don't see why it would bar further romance in Episode IX.

Kylo is a far more complex character than Sidius. He has always juggled several roles at once. After two movies of developing his character, I doubt that JJ/Terrio will ignore all of that and retcon him as a purely evil villian.

 

He was asked about Reylo fan theories and he just said: "That's interesting!" and smiled.

 

The stormtroopers are raised from a young age to be indoctrinated

 

Yeah but the movie's position on their leadership is what matters only. I found Poe's character arc the worst thing in the movie and I wasn't convinced that he's now a mature leader worthy of the title despite Leia's endorsement (when writing and characterization fail, get a popular character tell what isn't shown) but I understand that the movie's position is that he is now a mature leader worthy of following. So that's all that matters and that's what will roll into IX. He is a mature leader. He should be obeyed. The Resistance is lucky to have him. End of.

Likewise, movie's position on Kylo is that he's an impulsive, immature leader but who has become aware of his hollow victory and regrets what he's lost. Also that Hux is watching him like a hawk. So, again, that will roll into IX.

Point is, movie's position is all you need to know going forward. Our interpretation that clashes with the movie's position is a path to disappointment.

 

I agree, to the extent that the narrative’s position is what’s probative of how the narrative will progress and how the audience - generally speaking! - is supposed to think and feel about the characters, etc.

I too feel that some of this was done rather poorly.

Re Poe - when Poe and Holdo first clash, we’re presumably supposed to disapprove of Poe’s “mansplaining” to his superior officer. But a friend I was seeing the movie with was muttering how Holdo was a b——. Not, I think, the intended audience reaction...

 

The future of Reylo will continue to be a big secret, no doubt. Matt Martin from the story group recently commented favorably on a Reylo fan video and then had this exchange on twitter:


Of course, it Reylo was truly "over", as some here claim, why would Martin have to stay silent about it until the release of Episode IX?

 

Yes. Very true.
I cannot help quoting the sentence that he quotes from Holdo, deliberately changing the ending:

Holdo: "We are the spark that will light the fire that will restore the Republic"
Poe: " We are the spark that will light the fire that will crush the First Order"

It tells a lot of the character, I think.

 

Because ultimately it's JJ Abrams story to tell, so why would he speak out of turn to either confirm or deny possible story arcs in the future (whether they would be explored further or developed in a manner differently than fans perceive) this has also happen with Pablo Hildalgo, Jennifer Heddle, Mark Hamill etc. it's not thier responsibilty (as a example Rey's Parentage questions leading up to TLJ/Reylo etc.)

He won't say anything because it not his place period. If he did I assure you he would receive a not so favorable call from Lucasfilm.

 

@vaderito I don't expect IX to address Poe as a bad leader. I'm sure IX will make him a great leader of sorts because TLJ was trying to push what a hero he is. Like we are obviously supposed to think he is cool. But I can't always accept the things movies want me to. I generally try to go along with them. This is more a case of rejecting what the movie wants to convince us of. I don't expect the movies themselves to match my opinion, just as I don't let movies and their messages or portrayals determine my opinion.

IOW I am not speaking in this so much from within the movie's reality. It's that the movie's reality is not convincing to me in this area. The movie's position does not have to be my position.

Regarding disappointment, my expectations for movies are always low. I am not a person who feels "let down" by movies. That whole idea doesn't really compute. I just determine if I like things or not.

 

Yeah I'm highly doubtful about "okay in this last movie we will dump all established plot and character development and go with Vader 2.0 and Rey Skywalker as the amazing twist".

 

I’m one of those who believes that they went with either “related” or “romance” for Rey/Kylo, as those are the two most dramatic and emotional possibilities.

So, you debunk one, and a whole heck of a lot of people will take the other as confirmed.

But the nature of the connection between Rey and Kylo isn’t the only mystery left to be resolved by 9. The most glaring - to me, at least - is wtf Kylo’s deal is. And wtf was Snoke’s involvement. And why Kylo and Rey are so obviously mirroring Vader and Luke, respectively. Etc etc etc.

My own guess - the reason that makes the most sense to me - is that it’s all connected. You answer one of these mysteries, and the whole story becomes clear, to a large extent.

I’m not fond of the ST backloading the backstory/answers to the mysteries. But that’s how, I believe, they decided to tell the story.

 

I wouldn't be very inspired to follow any of the leaders in show - Holdo seemed condescending and secretive, Leia -slapped- Poe, which I thought was out of character (and if my boss slapped me, I'd walk away however good the cause) and Kylo force-bullies his underlings when not attempting to go on a personal rampage. So yeah, who to follow?

 

@Gemlake How can it be over when the main build up is to Reylo kiss? There's a reason why TLJ kiss aka second movie kiss is a Finn and Rose battle kiss, not a Reylo kiss. Finn and Rose will continue to be the romance too that contrasts Reylo but Reylo will be the romance that brings the full circle to 9 movies. In multi-romance stories, romances are meant to contrast one another so they are not the same type. Just because other SW movies didn't have more than 1 romance, it doesn't mean ST won't either.

If I could make a guess, the teasing with Sleeping Beauty (TFA) and Snow White (TLJ) imagery (kneeling Prince Kylo, Rey in a glass coffin, Rey hearing the call of the saber like Aurora heard the call to touch the spindle,etc) leads me to believe that Reylo kiss in IX will be so-called Kiss of Life or #lifekiss (you can't avoid hashtags these days) or True Love Kiss. The kiss that brings back from the dead, the transformational one. It's just a question of who kisses and who receives it - is it going to be traditional boy kisses girl or gender reversal like in Matrix:

 

I wasn’t fond of Leia slapping Poe, either. I don’t think Leia would just slap anyone...Poe is a surrogate son to her...but I still didn’t like it. It felt...retrograde. Would we have been ok if their genders were reversed? I think not =\

 

This is what you translated. You couldn't even realize that 个Gè is mainly "a" and you put 个人 together, you couldn't tell "人渣" is a word, so you add "personally" out of nowhere and separated 人 and 渣 to say about 渣 that "This isn't an insult in Chinese as far as I know". And you had the nerve to say your translation is exactly like mine.

Very impressive.

I guess I can only point out that understanding "个" is very beginner-level Chinese. Among the first sentences one would be taught when learning any language is "I am a student", and in Chinese it would be "我是个学生“ where you would learn when the subject in a sentence is singular, "一“ before "个” is always omitted.

 

Unless we get an actual English quote and/or video, that Chinese quote is of no consequence. No need to get worked up over it. There's a reason why we got a video to support other translations but not this one - likely cause it never happened as @GenderBender suspects. Didn't someone tweet Mark about it and he said he didn't remember or it didn't sound familiar? Anyway, if the video proving the quote resurfaces than we can discuss it but now it makes no sense to put so much translation effort into something that seems to be fake.

 

In the article, they stated they asked Daisy whether Rey/Poe had a love-at-first-sight scenario at the end of TLJ when they met at the end, and Daisy said "impossible" before she went on to explain not all relationships have to be romantic, whereas in the interview, the "impossible" is edited out and "not all relationships have to be romantic" part is published.

 

I would be willing to follow Holdo, although she has a serious failing in how she didn't do anything about crew morale and it really ended up being costly. Her job is kind of to get the Poes of the world on her side, or to at least keep them from staging a mutiny. So even though she was technically right, it didn't matter because she couldn't gain/keep loyalty. She also seemed to underestimate the lengths to which Poe would go to control the situation. He is a control freak. Anyway, basically I can see that Holdo has the ability to plot out a path and her strengths lie in strategy. She also values people's lives to an extent that would make me feel safe. Poe is more this loose cannon and who knows what he will do on impulse and TLJ showed that he can be controlling to a dangerous extent. Hot heads can be adorable, but I don't think they should be in charge unless they can gain control of those tendencies--intense efforts to control others and situations often is in response to a weakness in being able to control oneself. They can't cope with things out of their control because they can't manage their internal emotions and impulses.

Anyway, Poe will have to have challenges in IX, so I think I take it back that he will just be a perfect leader. If his character is simple, he will be. If his character is complex, his challenges remain. But I think that Poe will emerge a good guy and is already an established good guy, which means he will be successful in overcoming whatever challenges. But if I were IN this universe, I would not trust him. I would probably have trusted Holdo, though that's not without risk, since she does have a serious failing in leadership capability when it comes to managing other people. Holdo is good at all the things Poe is bad at, and vice versa. And if Holdo had lived, they might have made a great team eventually.

Oh BTW, I agree Kylo is an awful leader in the making. He and Poe actually have some similar issues, though Kylo has them worse.