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Discussion Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by Sforza, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. M70ko

    M70ko Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2018
    Wow where does this come from??? Hahahaha omg If this is real woooow cannot believe Daisy Ridley said that ! What a disappointment!!!
     
  2. Ben-Solo

    Ben-Solo Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Let’s hope JJ Abrams follows through with this if these are actually Daisy’s thoughts; I thought she already expressed not wanting any romance for Rey? I guess this furthers that sediment. Good for her, and her character, which should be a symbol of hope and empowerment. Rey doesn’t need anyone to help define her, she can do so all on her own.
     
    Darkspellmaster likes this.
  3. Lost_Hope

    Lost_Hope Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    I'm sorry, I really don't understand.

    You don't have feelings I listed? Like at all?

    If you deal with them differently, that means you're healthy person. "Action-taker" isn't a feeling, it's a part of personality. Kylo is an action-taker too, but he can't process his feelings healthy and can't control some of them and that makes his actions irrational. When you describe yourself as rational person, who can find an effective way to transform strong feelings in creating something positive\useful.

    Part of the message, yes.

    LOL you don't know? Daisy once just casually debunked one of the biggest plot points for the next episode and as usual called a character "scum." At press-junket which was for a few media-channels but only one website heard this exclusive piece and got Driver's interview. too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  4. RiddleMeThis

    RiddleMeThis Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2017
    Rian was speaking metaphorically not literally. People who relate to Leia probably aren't princesses leading rebellions in real life, just as people who relate to Kylo aren't necessarily dark lords who gain power through evil acts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  5. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    @11-4D I think it's been discussed about three times now.
     
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  6. Birkendoc

    Birkendoc Co-Purveyor of ST Trivia star 4 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2001
    It’s been rehashed several times. I recommend going back to the reply form the poster (forget her name) from the native speaking individual that really casts a lot of doubt in the reliability of that specific statement.
     
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  7. M70ko

    M70ko Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2018
    We're about to see how bad can he get. "See" as in a movie, totally comfort in our sits.
    But so far, it is disturbing your lack of faith.
    And it is disturbing that in the real world this is what leads into war, the lack of willing to save people, and I'm not talking about innocent people, but people who actually needs to be saved and healed. Of course, in the end, its always gonna be their decision, which again, in this case, we're about to see... We haven't the whole picture yet.
     
  8. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Actually maybe it's been discussed about five times as I forgot it was discussed in the sequel trilogy subforum before it was discussed in this thread.
     
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  9. NileQT87

    NileQT87 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2002
    You've grossly misinterpreted the patricide. It's not about whether you'd do it or not. And you don't understand the circumstances behind why he was ordered to do it in the first place.

    It's not the literal actions that are relatable, but the emotions of wanting to find belonging, feeling like a failure, rejected and lonely, feeling like you can never live up or down to the expectations of your family/others and feeling like too much of a monster to ever be forgiven for your mistakes that you regret. The whole ST's story has been about learning from your mistakes, that failure is the greatest teacher and passing on what you have learned.

    Ben Solo didn't hate his father. He literally says it in the film. Snoke specifically ordered him to kill his father because he was a sentimental weakness! He thought he could rid himself of his weaknesses by killing what he still loves (his parents and Rey--they were never who he was angry at) and tethered him to the Light, but it only hastened the opposite. He was saying he's a monster like Rey called him because he believes he's now irredeemable because of the guilt he does feel for what he's done. He believes he's a monster because of the conscience he does have. She was taken aback precisely because it was the opposite of what she believed when she made the accusation. The very fact that he is so torn up inside over the fact that everyone and himself perceives him to be this is what actually makes him NOT a monster. The fact that he feels he deserves no forgiveness, but desperately needs it, is exactly why he should receive it. Forgiveness isn't given because it's deserved, but because it's needed. I've explained this before.

    We see him berated and electrocuted for his failure to rid himself of his sentimentality and being torn up inside over his father who now remains with him more than ever. He's literally told he has too much of his father in him by Snoke. Rather than make him stronger and more sure of himself in his evil, the act caused him to pull away from the Darkness he was trying to prove and fail Snoke's test of loyalty. His compassion and feelings for Rey were another weakness Snoke saw. He was incapable of firing on his mother. It's the same reason Snoke then ordered him to kill Rey, but he couldn't do it and turned on Snoke.

    But he can't forgive himself or let go of his anger at Luke enough yet to believe he has a place in the Light. He understands that Snoke was an abuser, but he thinks he's also too far gone. He has internalized what Luke and Snoke both believed about him: that he's too Dark for the Light and too Light for the Dark. Rey made the mistake of only offering the Light and wanting him to come to a side who hates and rejects him, while he offered himself in the Dark, regardless of how he wants to change it into something new; neither were a middle ground. He's the one who thinks he's too much of a monster to ever be more than the boy who killed his own father and can't forgive himself for it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  10. Ben-Solo

    Ben-Solo Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2017
    And that’s okay because at the center of the dispute is the simple question which defines the parameters of any such future interactions between Rey and Kylo and this thread specifically. Thus is relevant especially since it could give insight into one of the principles wishes in the matter.
     
  11. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    I've said my opinion several times.
     
  12. M70ko

    M70ko Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2018
    Hallelujah!!! My faith in humanity is now restored! Thank you very much ;)
     
  13. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    “Should receive it” along with the lack of “faith in humanity” in reference to those who are not invested in Kylo’s feelings, seems to imply that not sympathizing with Kylo/being on board with forgiveness for him as he is right now, is morally wrong. It’s not.

    Yes, his conscience is utterly meaningless to me if he does not act on it.

    I’ll agree that he “should receive” forgiveness—when I see something from him other than his expressing his feelings. As far as Rey, maybe she buys into that sort of thing, but talk is cheap to me, as are facial expressions and tears.
     
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  14. Skillzwalker

    Skillzwalker Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2015
    Thanks for posting. That is exactly how i saw the movie as well so I glad i read it correctly.
     
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  15. M70ko

    M70ko Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2018
    It's more like being cold enough to ignore the details and generalize a whole person. Which I'm trying so hard to not do with you...
    Btw how is it that you're fan of Anakin? Just curious...

    Ok, so, you have a man who has killed his father and then couldn't kill his mother, an important flaw for someone who intends to be bad, and enough for me to believe it's not too late for him.
     
  16. Birkendoc

    Birkendoc Co-Purveyor of ST Trivia star 4 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2001
    I love how Adam magically was part of that interview while never setting foot in China for that press junket.
     
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  17. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Since you’ve already decided that I’m “cold,” is there any point in my responding to these questions? I don’t really care, because using another character example, I thought Ventress deteriorated greatly when she went from being “cold” to being soft and emotional, but if you are looking for a way to validate your idea that I’m “cold” as opposed to exchanging ideas about arcs for Kylo and Rey (and overall stories), there is not a point in responding.

    I’ll believe it’s not too late for Kylo when he demonstrates as much by making visible efforts to atone, not just “feel sorry” without doing anything about it.

    And not, it is not too late for him to do exactly that in Episode IX, he just needs to do it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  18. Mana

    Mana Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2015
    I just said in a previous post how Star Wars is a giant metaphor and here everyone is, taking things in a fantasy space opera literally. Of course its not people who want to kill their fathers who relate to Kylo. Have you never been angry? Selfish? Entitled? Afraid? Or are you just afraid of those feelings and reject them because they are improper and you fear them and fear rejection by society?
    I refuse to believe anyone's gone through their entire life doing everything right, being loved by everyone and never setting a toe out of place and expect the same of everybody else around them...
     
  19. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Nobody has gone through life without being angry or afraid, but that does not mean everyone can relate to Kylo, because for some of us, how we handle those feelings is as important or more important than the feelings themselves.

    As far as “afraid of feelings and societal rejection” or whatever that is...LOL no, and attempting to psychoanalyze people who don’t view the film the way you do is not helpful for either side of this debate.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  20. Mana

    Mana Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2015
    I never meant to psychoanalyze anyone here, I apologize if I came across that way.
    And at the end of the day, Kylo Ren is not a real person, the writers can choose to do whatever they want with him and even make it believable, so he has no agency in that sense.

    But negative feelings are the hardest to handle, and I have a lot of sympathy for people who are unable to process those emotions properly.
     
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  21. M70ko

    M70ko Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2018
    Wow THAT is what I was looking for...
    And that is what we all are waiting for.
    Your previous posts made me believe that even if he could still be redeemed you wouldn't accept it... I'm glad to see this.
    And I apologize. ;)
     
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  22. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Fair enough. Thank you. :)

    Understand that quite a bit of my animosity towards him comes from my lack of patience with people who have resources and opportunities that many people would love to have—a stable home life, money, intelligence, and education—and squander it over “feelings” (or any other reason but I find that reason a particular waste). Keeping this on topic with Rey, given her background and how lacking it was in opportunity, I didn’t understand how quickly she got on board with him, regardless of what she saw in visions or his being the only other Force sensitive when Luke didn’t want her around.

    On Anakin—I like that he came back, that’s why my user name has that year in it. I also really liked him in TCW, parts of AOTC and the opening of ROTS, because he was fun.

    If his entire character had been represented by the scenes in which he whined about Obi-Wan or checked his brain at the door when Palpatine was around, I would not like him at all.

    @M70ko : Thank you. :) And I will absolutely accept a redemption if he demonstrates himself to be redeemed through actions—not being able to kill Leia isn’t enough at this point because that’s the bare minimum for anything remotely resembling decency, it’s not atonement. I agree that it could be a start though.

    I would have a hard time buying a romance with Rey in Episode IX because I will not understand how she could trust him so quickly—forgiveness is one thing but trust takes time once it has been lost. But redemption...sure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  23. M70ko

    M70ko Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2018
    Even when I want these two together I agree with that. They need time to figure a lot of things out... Its all part of a process but I hope they'll find a way to make it work!
     
  24. Amdrag

    Amdrag Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 26, 2008
    How are they going to figure out Kylo being evil, one who unlike Vader, has loved ones begging him to not do what he does, and then proceeds to literally kill his father, attempt to kill his mother and attempts to kill his uncle? This is beyond the billions he helped slaughter of course. That is what makes Kylo not tragic, but just... well evil. He is making this choice while given another option. Even when called by the light, he refuses it. I remember awhile back JJ talking about how this trilogy we would see the inverse of Vader. Instead of seeing a villain broken down and brought back to the light and instead watch one created over it. And well, that feels like exactly what we have got so far. Because given all the power in the galaxy, the only thing Kylo can think about is to murder his mother, his uncle, and Rey.

    Oh, and there is Rey not being attracted to Kylo, and this guy named Finn.
     
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  25. IncessantRamblings

    IncessantRamblings Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2016
    LOL, you know it was discussed because weren't you part of that discussion?!
    Yes, here they are! What I found most interesting was the site "is not a news outlet. They started a longtime ago doing movie critics and P2P pirated movie download, then transfer to movie critic, selling movie tickets and movie related merchandise."
    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/rey-kylo-ren-in-episode-ix.50047262/page-100#post-54837446
    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/rey-kylo-ren-in-episode-ix.50047262/page-103#post-54838942
    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/rey-kylo-ren-in-episode-ix.50047262/page-100#post-54837365
    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/rey-kylo-ren-in-episode-ix.50047262/page-101#post-54838767
    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/rey-kylo-ren-in-episode-ix.50047262/page-101#post-54838744
    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/rey-kylo-ren-in-episode-ix.50047262/page-102#post-54838820
    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/rey-kylo-ren-in-episode-ix.50047262/page-99#post-54837231
    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/rey-kylo-ren-in-episode-ix.50047262/page-102#post-54838909
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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