ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

What Kylo knows for sure was what Hux told him, that the girl got away in one of the escape pods and later he sees her in the Force Bond (possibly sees her on the Falcon), but he doesn't know the location of it. Not sure what he knows about Leia, as of now.

 

Also, TFA's Novelization stats that Rey and Poe have met at the end of that adventure. However, in TLJ they act as if they've met for the first time so....film trumps books.

 

If Kylo "sensing" someone can be that obvious, Matt would say so. Like he always does.

The thing is that it's too much dramatic moments to not make them obvious for the audience. Kylo's decision to kill his mother and Rey would be verbalized or shown with reactions from others. They left it vague for the same reasons they left vague Rey's thoughts and feelings after Kylo's proposal.

 

Just watch that scene again: he sensed his mother when he was at a very close range.

Given the emotional state he's in on Crait, it would be a wonder if he'd be able to sense his own feet.
He doesn't think strait. He didn't even realize that Luke was a projection, leaving no footprints on the ground.
He is literally blinded by rage.

 

@milena To me, whether he knew Rey was in the Flacon or not is not a deal breaker. Rey shot him in the first Force Bond (talk about Cupid's arrow) so that's their private thing. If they like to shoot each other out of the sky or in the chest, good for them.

But anyway, he was so angry when he saw Falcon I don't think he had time to think who's there or not. It was more Falcon as a symbol of everything that went wrong in his life. I find it more interesting that he was in tears when he Force choked Hux into submission and that wasn't because he felt Hux's pain. Break up tears?

 

....He was closer to Rey than he was to Leia, he'd also just been humiliated by Snoke and was so angry he smashed his helmet, yet he still sensed Leia. So again, no reason not to sense Rey. His blind rage just means that he will kill ANYONE when angry enough and damn the consequences....just ask Lor Sentaka.

 

Agreed, that's the point of Crait, Kylo is blinded by rage.

Contrasting how calm and miserable he was after.

Johnson hinted that this Anakin's regret in the end of ROTS, but the difference that Kylo did not became half-machine, did not have both masters anymore and Rey is alive.

 

I think Kylo was blinded by his rage in the last minutes of TLJ and I'm not sure he felt his mother's presence and Rey's, he did not even feel that Luke wasn't really there, someone with his power must have discovered Luke's trick, but obviously he was not in a position to do it, I would say he was unbalanced in that scene. In any case, his behavior was totally wrong and does not excuse what he did.

@DragonJedi I swear that when I left my post I had not read yours. I think we think in a similar way.

 

His father and Mentor are dead, and he's become the Supreme Leader and all it cost him was his soul. We'll see what he does now that he faces rejection from all sides.

 

@Adept Nothing to disagree, we'll see. It's unique position for Skywalker and unique emotional arc for the villian, but one way or another, Kylo have to get his **** together.

 

I got a little carried away with this, so bear with me.

On the subject of training. I wonder what 9 has in store for Rey. Luke's gone. Leia wouldn't have trained her (presumably, since she was always about politics & Luke was the Jedi) even if she'd have been a big part of 9. Kylo/Ben's off with the FO.

So there's Rey. And the books. That's it. Even the book lover in me knows there's no way she can really learn how to master the force from those texts alone, no matter how much info they provide. So unless force ghost Luke decides to stick around day after day to train her (which we haven't seen w/FGs before, they usually pop in, drop some knowledge bomb, then pop out) she's back to being alone w/the force. Heck, even if Luke does decide to stick around, she can't really spar w/him. Now, she of course could train w/Finn, Rose, Poe & friends, but that still isn't the same as training against a fellow force user. Not to mention questions Rey may have about aspects of the force that aren't in those texts. And that her friends will never really understand her connection to Ben.

And we know that the resistance wants Kylo/Ben gone. Presumably they'll want to use Rey to take him out, assuming she'll be able to because ooh force powers and she beat him on Starkiller.

But Rey doesn't strike me as someone who's going to be content with going along with that. Not after what she went through with Kylo/Ben and Luke, Ben especially, which changed him form JUST a murderous snake to....something...else. Seeing TLJ again, the scene where Luke asks Rey, "Who are you? Why are you here?" and how her initial, phoned in answer, (I'm paraphrasing here) "The resistance sent me. Leia sent me. We need you to help us destroy the FO." changes when she opens up and tells Luke why she's really there, "something inside of me has always been there. But now it's awake, and I'm afraid. I need you're help."(something along those lines, can't recall exactly sorry) really hit me.

Rey cares very deeply about her friends, that's a fact. I think she cares about the cause too. But I think that deep down her real passion is to learn more about the force not JUST to help the resistance but to understand what that means for her and what sort of power she has. It's important going forward. Or should be.

Idk. In TFA, Rey turns down Kylo's offer to be her teacher. In TLJ, she's hoping to find a teacher in Luke. And doesn't, really. In 9 I think it'd be interesting to have her exploring Jedi (and hey, Sith) history & the Force in the galaxy. Becoming her own teacher in the force. Given her natural inclination to explore the dark side without falling to it in TLJ (I don't think you could ever accuse Rey of being scared of the dark side, that girl knows herself too well to ever succumb to it), as she learns more about the force she could well become one of the most balanced force users we've seen. And I wonder if as she grows in the force she makes a move and is the one who reaches out to Kylo and starts a conversation with him about the force. And if that leads to him turning, if not to the light, then away from the FO and helping to take them down.

Again, idk where I'm going here and that was a lot. I guess I just find Rey more complex than your standard "dark side bad, light side good" hero. Hence why I see her and Kylo as having an important connection and relationship (I'm parked in the romantic camp but hey could just as well be platonic too) in 9.

Also, those Spotify playlists are amazing! I was hooked on Rey's after TFA, but since TLJ have been obsessed with Kylo's. So perfect the songs for each lol. Addicted to Silversun Pickups' Panic Switch lately; the lyrics make me think of Kylo & Rey reflecting back on their force bond & throne room encounters after the end of TLJ. Ah the angst.

 

I didnt see Luke saying he is putting his faith in Rey anywhere.
If anything, he said that he will be with Kylo always.

Luke couldnt care less about Rey.

If he did they would have shown him talking to Rey like Obi wan did to Luke in ANH after he died.
But they didnt.

Nobody put their faith in Rey other than Rey.

Bcoz everyone else was concerned about Kylo.
Luke, Han, Leia.
Kylo was their priority in TFA and TLJ.

That is exactly where the problem lies.

They keep dialogues like
"Ben Solo is our last hope."

But they couldnt outrightly say that Rey is the hope.

Why?

Why they leave things regarding Rey vague and open to interpretation?

After TFA, everyone thought Luke will train Rey when she ended up at the island but he didnt.
They didnt even have a civil relationship for future FG visits.

Rey's whole storyline on Achto was about finding out what went wrong b/w Kylo and Luke; and "connecting" with Kylo.

Compare it to Luke's storyline in ESB.
It was about him training to become a jedi.

Now they implied that Rey is a jedi when she actually isnt trained at all and took some books with her, which are not page turners, Yoda's words.
But Rey will surely read and understand them.

What were they trying to show exactly?
That Rey will read text books and become a jedi and train others as well.
How illogical, unbelievable and stupid is that?

Couldnt they just have her trained instead?
That would be believable.

Now i really cant buy Rey as a jedi who would train others.
I mean she just discovered about the force a week ago.

I am starting to see why people are calling her overpowered and perfect hero who has no flaws.

Seriously when does Rey actually struggle to achieve something?

 

I mean, if there's a time lapse of say 3-5 years between TLJ & 9 I'd be more inclined to believe Rey being able to share force knowledge at that point & carry on the teachings. Luke himself progressed a lot in the force in the time between ESB & ROTJ, as did Ani between AOTC & ROTS. So I don't think it's a huge jump. But Luke actually trained with Yoda for fairly substantial amount of time (presumably). (plus that short time with Obi). Rey doesn't even have that.

Though I really don't want to see her as strictly another Jedi lightsider training a new generation of jedi. It didn't end well for the younglings in ROTS. Or for Luke's padawans. So if she goes down that same path I only see it failing.

Plus, IDK, maybe she doesn't want to be a teacher? She strikes me as wanting to go on missions herself and travel the galaxy without having to worry about toting around a bunch of younglings.

 

Maybe Kylo will teach her in 9.
I mean their relationship is changed from TFA.
And Rey really needs a teacher.

Kylo clearly knows more about the jedi, sith and the force than her.
He is trained by Luke and Snoke both.

It makes sense with all the forshadowing of Sun/Son/Hope with Kylo.

And as long as a skywalker lives, seed of the jedi order lives and hope lives in the galaxy.

 

@Star war Luke can't train anybody. That's the point of all this Jedi storyline. Only thing Luke can teach Rey and Kylo - how and when Jedi was wrong.

Rey is an outsider here, she didn't have Snoke's influence and she didn't have Luke's influence as a Jedi. That's why she can make difference: she has a spirit of true Jedi, but didn't have prejudices.

It seems that Story goal here that the Jedi were wrong about a lot of things including the darkness and it's something that Rey can change. She can see Kylo's darkness in unusual way for a Jedi and both Rey and Kylo can bring balance to the Force.

Training, dogmas and teachings are part of Jedi as religion. Kylo got education from both sides, but Rey from none. She can see the Force in a way late Jedi failed to see.

 

I understand your point.
But I still dont see how that makes Rey a jedi.
She has the spirit. Great.

So the jedi before Rey, for thousands of years, were wasting their time by training for years.
They should have read text books instead.

Dont get me wrong, i want Rey to be a powerful jedi but what they are showing is not believable to me at all.

Does she even need training?
Till now she has downloaded everything from Kylo regarding the force.

So Kylo will do the hard work and train for years and Rey will just download it from him and defeat him with it.

Do you see, it really doesnt sound great for Rey's character.

Like i said before, has she struggled to achieve anything till now?

How can i take Rey seriously when she is already perfect in everything?

 

Because her optimism and naïveté, which help her with the Light were twisted in ways alongside her desire for longing, and confusion related to identify, to reveal that they can all be big blind spots for her ripe for exploit and weakness by the Dark Side and its users.

This ST isn’t going to Be about training snd progression like a Karate Kid movie. It’s going to be a coming of age fairy tale of a peasant girl with power meeting a Dark prince with power and the superhero adage “With great power comes great responsibility” and the choices these young people with considerable power make knowingly or unknowingly and the impact those choices have on everyone else.

 

Great point.
But how will she know she is seeing it right and it wont end in disaster?

She doesnt actually know anything about the force to see it correctly and make a difference.

Maybe reading books will give her some knowledge.

But its still is up in the air that she will apply/use it correctly.
Bcoz she doesnt know where the failure actually lies.

The jedi, the sith or whatever force users did right or wrong ; she doesnt know that.

Maybe i am thinking it too much.

I just dont understand what they will make of the jedi order?

 

It seems that being the Jedi is not about training and reading books. It happens with religion VS faith.
Jedi started to care about dogmas more than for the Force.

Maybe you have your own vision of powerful Jedi. Maybe our visions differ.

I think that the point of her having Kylo's skills - she has given a power to destroy him, but will she?

I understand complaints about Rey's journey being not Luke's journey. It's the way it is because Rey and Luke have different goals.

Rey's goal to find her place in life, save her friends and find her belonging.
She does not have a goal to become a Jedi. That's why her becoming a Jedi won't be her personal success. Her journey is much more complicated that this.
She fails her goals during TFA and biggest part of TLJ and it's a question if she found what she wants.
Her advantage and weekness were that she had no agenda because of her parents. She needs to find it on her own.

Luke's goal was to be a hero like father before him.
This goal transformed because of his connection to Vader. The same way Rey's goal changed because of her connection to Kylo.
His advantage and weakness were that he had agenda because of his father. Which changed when he discovered that Vader is his father.

I think we really are arguing here about impact from connection with blood-relatives and impact from connection from not blood-relatives.

 

But what is the point on having more Jedis?? That implies having more Siths in the future...
If this is about ending the war, then they don't really need jedis..
I liked the idea someone here said... Ending the conflict once and for all, allows Star Wars to leave the story there and explore the past as an ancient times... Which I would personally LOVE!
BTW I think having Kylo 'training' Rey or whatever they have to do to find balance, would be amazing, if only there could be a chance for this to happen ._.
Edit: maybe the word would be "teaching" not training... Cause you are right, Rey downloading everything from Kylo is cheating ... He should actually be teaching her.

 

Random prediction for IX. At some point Kylo will repair the skywalker saber and give it back to Rey, also symbolically mending their relationship.

 

I'm not going to repost my first post, but Rey and Kylo Ren if he gets redeemed could have a blending of the way...old guard with new guard, sometimes forests are burned to the ground for new growth to grow. Seek out all knowledge and keep what is true. That's what they could do, back to basics. Ahch-To planet since the last Jedi director did do a "scene" for episode nine. But who knows? There is a scene in my mind where Han Solo is talking to Shmi Skywalker-Lars and how the last scene between Rey and Ben went. Maybe there is no hope and Han is is right there will be no great, great grand babies for grandma Shmi. But she still has hope because she is the most sane one of her bloodline. They have bonded over how awkward their sons are over girls. Honestly those boy men! Oh to be a fly on that wall!

 

I do like the shirtless scene! Rey is like get a shirt on! Kylo Ben is like, nah I'm good. I just got out of the shower, I'm still cooling off. Deal with it! Rey is like fine whatever gr. Both are equally stubborn. For some reason I keep seeing shades of the real early Mara Jade/Luke Skywalker relationship. Maybe because Rey shot him and he was intrigued how she did that. I swear the Skywalker men have no survivor instinct. The women on the other hand...sighs. Maybe the family should die off. Which sucks for Shmi legacy. The Jedi/With effed up Anakin bad when she sent him off. This is not what she had in mind when she sent him off or Han did either for Ben. The song from Avril Lavigne Anything But Ordinary comes to mind for Anakin and perhaps for Kylo Ben.

 

I like it. Two halves make a whole. For some reason Feel Invincible by the band Skillet works well in the fight scene between the PG and Rey and Kylo or just before it. I'm seeing a lot of songs by the band Red, Breaking Benjamin, etc that would work will with how angst Kylo Ben can be! For instance, Angels fall by Breaking Benjamin or hymn for the missing by Red. I think the song End of Me by Ashes Remain or anything from their album What I've Become would work well for either Rey or Kylo. Course it could be a moot point if the Skywalker line dies off in the next movie. I can see why it must end but I don't want it too.