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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Rey, The Force, Fairy Tales and The Brothers Grimm...

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Darth Damo, Feb 4, 2016.

  1. Darth Damo

    Darth Damo Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 1999
    The Rey moment when Kylo Ren tells her to use the force has had me thinking for a long time about it. To me, this seemed to be an actual awakening in the movie. As if, she had been asleep or in a trance that she had woken up from. It reminded me of something which I couldn't put my finger on but I have started to make some inroads into getting close to an answer.

    Firstly, this theory assumes that Rey has been trained by someone in her early years to use the force and that somehow, she has forgotten this or it has been repressed inside her. The "magic word" so to speak to awaken her is, "Use the Force". I have been looking for other examples in literature of where something similar to this has happened or been implied and I have found two tales from the brothers Grimm.

    1. Sleeping Beauty

    "A hundred years pass and a prince from another family spies a hidden castle during a hunting expedition. His attendants tell him differing stories regarding the castle until an old man recounts his father's words: within the castle lies a beautiful princess who is doomed to sleep for a hundred years until a king's son comes and awakens her. The prince then braves the tall trees, brambles and thorns which part at his approach, and enters the castle. He passes the sleeping castle folk and comes across the chamber where the Princess lies asleep on the bed. Struck by the radiant beauty before him, he falls on his knees before her. The enchantment comes to an end by a kiss and the princess awakens and converses with the prince for a long time."

    Without even analysing that text it is clear that there are some hefty overtones between this take and TFA.

    2. Rumpelstiltskin

    "Her many guesses fail, but before the final night, she wanders into the woods searching for him and comes across his remote mountain cottage and watches, unseen, as he hops about his fire and sings. In his song's lyrics, "tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, I'll go to the king's house, nobody knows my name, I'm called 'Rumpelstiltskin'", he reveals his name. Some versions have the imp limiting the number of daily guesses to three and hence the total number of guesses allowed to a maximum of nine. When the imp comes to the queen on the third day, after first feigning ignorance, she reveals his name, Rumpelstiltskin, and he loses his temper and their bargain. In the 1812 edition of the Brothers Grimm tales, Rumpelstiltskin then "ran away angrily, and never came back".

    So my question now is what is the fairytale where someone says a word that causes a change in a central character?

    I am sure that there is one that I just can't remember!

    Best

    Damo
     
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  2. Woodbine

    Woodbine Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2014
    I know what you mean but I just can't find the example. I keep thinking of Labyrinth because I watched it the other day. The girl says a phrase to get the baby kidnapped by the Goblin king, and then another phrase to end it all. There's definitely a better example, but my memory was wiped by some dark jedi in clubs in the noughties.
     
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  3. Cyan_Dawn

    Cyan_Dawn Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 1999
    I don't think the phrase, "use the Force", or any other specific phrase makes Rey use the Force. Kylo Ren's actual dialogue in that scene is, "You need a teacher! I can show you the ways of the Force!"
     
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  4. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    hmm interesting. sleeping beauty and rinkleforeskin. are there any others i wonder?
     
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  5. Wildcatbarry

    Wildcatbarry Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2015
    Cinderella - girl in rags in servitude to a cruel master.

    EDIT - Pinocchio - His father\maker wishes him to come to life (awaken) but to become a real boy he must prove himself worthy. Becomes drawn away, but with guidance gets on the right track.
    "When You Wish Upon a Star"

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Darth Damo

    Darth Damo Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 1999
    Ok Cyan... If that is the actual doalogue then I may have to rethink this theory a little then. Any chance that you know the dialogue from the scene in general?
     
  7. Darth Damo

    Darth Damo Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 1999
    Surely I should be too old to laugh at that... :)
     
  8. DavidSword79

    DavidSword79 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2015
    The Emperor tells Luke: "You will die," prompting Vader to act. The Light Side awakens within him and he destroys Palpatine.
     
  9. Cyan_Dawn

    Cyan_Dawn Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 1999
    Kylo Ren - "We're not done yet."
    Rey - "You're a monster!"
    Kylo Ren - "It's just us now. Han Solo can't save you."
    Finn - "Rey! Rey! Rey... Rey... Oh no. Oh no no no..."
    Kylo Ren - "TRAITOR!"
    Kylo Ren - "That lightsaber. It belongs to me!"
    Finn - "Come get it."
    Kylo Ren - "You need a teacher! I can show you the ways of the Force!"
    Rey - "The Force."
     
  10. nonesuch

    nonesuch Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2015
    Interesting thread! There are definite Sleeping Beauty links. It's also worth mentioning that Aurora (the princess) was taken from her parents as a baby and fostered out for her protection, being kept ignorant of her true identity until she was presumed to be safe from the curse placed on her at her christening. Rey was also fostered out (to Unkar) and separated from her parents, and I think what we find out about her background in VIII is going to indicate that she too was a cursed child (not literally, but in terms of her having suffered a great misfortune when she was little that triggered her abandonment).
     
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  11. CrazyOldJedi

    CrazyOldJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2000
  12. Darth Damo

    Darth Damo Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 1999
    That is a cracking read CrazyOldJedi...
     
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  13. Homergreg

    Homergreg Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Here's my take on this, not to discredit your observation, but to put a bit of a twist to it. I don't think it was a magic phrase as much as it was something that reminded her of what she had been told of the nature of the force earlier in the film, first by Han and then by Maz, and dare I speculate by Lor San Tekka in the time leading up to this episode.

    Much as Luke was reminded by the disembodied voice of Obi Wan to "Let Go" and "Use the Force", Rey was reminded, much to the chagrin of Kylo when he said "I can show you the ways of the Force!"

    At that point she realized that "It's true, all of it" and especially "I am no jedi, but I know the force. It moves through and surrounds every living thing. Close your eyes, feel it. The light. It's always been there. It will guide you. The sabre - take it." And she put her trust in the Force instead of her senses, let it guide her. Much like Luke turning off that computer and letting the Force guide him.

    I think Kylo's issue in their fight is that he waffles between using the will of the Force, even the dark side, to guide him and using his own will. He's carrying a bit of Ben Solo yet inside him and that creates doubt. That doubt creates weakness, confusion, and an inability to "Let Go". Rey at that point opened up fully to the Force at that point, for the first time, with no time for doubt to reach in, so she was able to open up a can of whoop-Force on him.
     
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  14. Wildcatbarry

    Wildcatbarry Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2015
    I think it was a repressed memory.

    In the heat of the moment she was using the Force to combat Kylo but didn't give herself fully to it until he mentioned "the Force".

    That is when it all came rushing back.

    Very Interesting that Maz and Han mentioned the Force to her but it took Kylo saying it to trigger the repressed memory.

    Also very interesting that she and Kylo have the strong Force power of Mind Reading.

    :D;)
     
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  15. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Irvin Kershner wanted TESB to be a gloomy fair tale. In some ways, I think that TFA was one, and Episode VIII may be even more so. Rey has darkness to confront within her.
     
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  16. Wildcatbarry

    Wildcatbarry Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2015
    "Clouded his her future is."
     
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  17. nonesuch

    nonesuch Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2015

    Ah, that's my blog! It's nice to see my 'nonsense' shared on here :).
     
  18. CrazyOldJedi

    CrazyOldJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2000
    In May 2012 Disney's 'Order of the Seven' was put on hold indefinitely after a decade of planning. In October 2012 Disney announced they would buy Lucasfilm. Michael Arndt had worked on 'Order of the Seven' and was brought in by Disney/LFL to write SW VII. I have copied some blurbs regarding the movie below and highlighted some phrases which may be pertinent.


    The unique project, which Disney has been developing since 2002, centers on a 19th century Englishwoman who returns to her Hong Kong home for her father’s funeral, only to discover that her stepmother is plotting against her. She escapes to mainland China, finding solace among a rogue band of seven international warriors.

    Order of the Seven had originally been envisioned as a Natalie Portman vehicle. Earlier this year, though, Oscar-nominee Saoirse Ronan (Atonement, Hanna) was set to headline the film as a young 19th century English woman who flees Hong Kong, in order to escape “an ancient evil empress” – and, thereafter, seeks refuge with “seven men belonging to an ancient order dedicated to fighting demons and dragons” (as was to be played by an all-star cast of international martial arts sensations).

    In this iteration [of ‘Snow White’], the seven are a 19th century-set disparate band of international warriors belonging to a centuries-old order who have lost their way. Their meeting with an English woman being chased by an ancient evil is the catalyst for their redemption. While the project is set in China, the warriors will be from locales near (the U.S.) and far (Russia), and each warrior will have a unique fighting style.

    The long-in-development version is an “East meets West” update of the classic fairy tale set in a British colony in China during the late 19th century. It follows a young woman and the seven Shaolin monks who believe she holds the key to the future within her deathblow-dealing hands.
     
  19. moonjump05

    moonjump05 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2013
    We actually had a conversation about the fairytale elements surrounding Rey in the now moved Rey and Kylo thread a while back. However, it was about the imagery with Rey in the woods on Takodana being similar to Little Red Riding Hood.

    We have our maiden Rey lost in the woods being pursued by the wolf Kylo and his big red lightsaber (in place of a red hood), he then absconds with her and she has an awakening (in the Force instead of the implied sexual awakening in the fairytale).

    I don't think any 'power word' fairytales have been mentioned there though, I might have something to think about:)
     
  20. Darth Damo

    Darth Damo Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 1999
    Chairman Wow!
     
  21. Mana

    Mana Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2015
    We also talked about fairy tale role reversal in the Rey and Kylo thread...Rey is the Prince, or the Knight, because she receives the sword (lightsaber) and the quest (map) and Ben Solo is the Princess, lying dormant in the tallest tower of the castle (Kylo Ren) guarded by a fire breathing dragon (Snoke), Rey must fight her way through the wall of thorns (the First Order) Slay the dragon and then scale the walls of the castle to reawaken the sleeping Princess (Ben Solo).....I like the idea of the reversal of roles, because it empowers Rey!