ST Rey's and Kylo's /Force User Training

I'm looking forward to seeing both Rey and Kylo Train in the Last Jedi. I'm guessing that both will be training in the first act. If we are going to be seeing them train back to back, then either they will:
A) complete the same training with emphasis on how Kylo is stronger than Rey
B) complete opposite training to show their differences (for example Rey trains with water while Kylo trains with fire)

Training Tropes

• Becoming the Boast
• Boxing Lessons for Superman
• Brick Break
• Charles Atlas Superpower
• Chekhov's Skill
• Clown School
• Demolitions Expert
• Emotion Suppression--- Maybe Kylo will take medication or potions to suppress his emotions. I can see Snoke getting tired of Kylo breaking stuff.
• Enlightenment Superpowers
  • Super Intelligence
  • Astral Projection
  • access to past life memories and skills
  • levitation (Luke got this one)
  • Aura Vision
  • healing abilities
  • super strength
• Fantastic Fighting Style
• Fighting Fingerprint
• Fluffy Tamer
• The Greatest Style
• I Know Madden Kombat
• I Know Mortal Kombat
• I Don't Know Mortal Kombat
• Ki Manipulation
  • Luke levitates a rock he is sitting on (Flight or levitation)
  • Energy donation: expend your own ki to recharge another ki user, as long as your "wavelengths" are similar--Rey did this with Kylo. Maybe she will do it again with Luke. Or maybe she will steal more of Kylo's powers.
  • Sensing: can sense the spirit engery of others, can tell where they may be and how powerful they are
  • Self Enhancements: use ki to boost own physical body, becoming stronger, faster and tougher)
• Look What I Can Do Now!
• Master of Your Domain
• The Medic
• Meditation Powerup (I can see this. Kylo might get a power up from Vader, Rey will get this from meditating in water--- also remember Luke saying "Just breathe?" )
• My Kung-Fu Is Stronger Than Yours
• New Ability Addiction
• Le Parkour
• The Power of Acting
• Skill Scores and Perks
• Suddenly Always Knew That
• Switch Out Move
• Unique Protagonist Asset

How You Learned It:

• Adaptive Ability
• Awesomeness by Analysis
• Book on the Head
• But I Read a Book About It
• Can't Catch Up
• Character Level
• Crazy-Prepared
• Crisis Makes Perfect
• Deadly Training Area
• Die or Fly
• Don't Think, Feel
• Dumbass No More
• Had to Be Sharp
• Hands-On Approach
• Hard Work Fallacy
• Improvised Training
• Incompletely Trained
• A Lesson In Defeat (Kylo was already defeated, maybe there will be this for Rey)
• Lotus Position (I can see Rey doing this- not so much Kylo)
  • Levitating Lotus Position
• A Master Makes Their Own Tools (Will Rey make her own lightsaber or Kylo fix his?)
• Meditating Under a Waterfall (I can see Rey doing this-- maybe a shower for Kylo- but then again maybe there is a red waterfall on Crait)
• Olympic Swimmer
• Physical Fitness Punishment
• Raw Eggs Make You Stronger (Rey eats porg eggs...)
• Simulated Urban Combat Area
• Sink-or-Swim Mentor
• The Spartan Way
• Super Fly Reflexes
• Talented But Trained
• Taught by Experience
• Taught by Television
• Teach Me How To Fight
• Time to Unlock More True Potential
• Took a Level in Badass
• Training from Hell (I would expect this)
• Training Montage (This too)
• Victor Gains Loser's Powers
• Wax On, Wax Off
• When You Snatch the Pebble
• Your Eyes Can Deceive You
• You Are Not Ready
• You Shouldn't Know This Already (regardless of the skill, there has to be learning before use).

Shortcuts/Cheating:

• Adaptational Badass
• Drunken Master (I wouldn't mind seeing Snoke or Luke drunk haha)
• Hard Work Hardly Works
• Mooching Master
• Opponent Switch
• Traumatic Superpower Awakening
• Xenafication (Rey might become more like Xena)

*I would also want to add communion with the spirits. Kylo gets to talk to Vader and Rey Anakin. Maybe Kylo powers up by making a pact with a force demon and becomes some sort of Warlock.
*I'm going to throw in Power Copying for Rey (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PowerCopying?from=Main.MegaManning)


New Abilities
*Force Repulse

 

Will we see the training ball droid Luke used to train Rey?

 

well the original is still on the falcon.

 

True!!

 

I keep thinking the rumored Rey vs sea monster fight, is training.

 

Holy ****, what a post. If not for the time investment alone.

 

I'm curious to see how they'll show the effects of Kylo's completed DS training while showing the "weakening" he felt (as per the novelization) when he killed Han.

If a Dark Sider finds himself feeling emotions like regret, love, joy, etc., are his powers weakened? What if he simply feeling less rageful or sad?

 

I'm curious to see what the music will be while the "training" is going on. And if they will cut back and forth between Rey and Kylo.

In a way, I think they SHOULD show Kylo getting a lot stronger to make it plausible that he is able to hang around with Rey. (Rey was shown to be stronger int he force than Kylo both before the sword fight and during the fight itself)

And I wonder how they can show an improved Rey when she was uber-powerful in TFA. Will she show some Force powers we've never seen?, Will she finally demonstrate what Vader meant by "the power to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force".

I sometimes wondered if Rey will actually be the one doing the training of Luke (like she trained Han on how to fix the Falcon).

 

Rey was in no way shown to be more powerful than Kylo. First the lightsaber called to her, then chose her when both she and Kylo called for it. Kylo was both severely injured and completely unfocused. The very first lesson in force training is focus. Listen to the force. Rey was able to stop and focus which made a extremely vulnerable Kylo look like an easy win.

 

It was about 10 minutes, Most of it was copied from TV Tropes. All I did was add red comments and the videos.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SkillsAndTrainingTropes

 

Rey doesn't really need training. All she needs is to see someone else do something once and she pretty quickly masters it. I don't think training would hurt her and maybe learning a few new tricks would be helpful. Like she hasn't done force lightning yet. I'm hoping she gets to fight Snoke in this one cos she already pawned Kylo and watching him get his ass kicked again would be boring.

Now Kylo really does need training, but they'd have to super retcon Rey's powers to make it believable if they decide to let Kylo win this round. Unless Snoke gives him jedi kyrptonite or something.

 

I would agree here. I think Kylo simply made numerous bad decisions throughout the film. I seriously doubt that Rey will train Luke. Remember Han told Rey "you've got a lot to learn".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I think you need to see all the interactions between Kylo and Rey. Not just the last battle. E.G. When Kylo is trying to probe Rey's mind she lashes out at him and beats his probe.

Kylo doesn't look unfocused or severely injured. He was ok to dispatch Finn.

Rey told Han how to bypass the thing int he Falcon.

 

i think kylo was pretty badly injured with that bowcaster--TFA pointed out to us how deadly that weapon is. most people probably wouldn't have been able to get up after, let alone carry on with a fight. kylo was probably using the force to hold himself together. we don't know who is more powerful with the force "yet." and even if we did, obi-wan kicked anakin's *** and he wasn't the more powerful of the two.

 

Not to de-reail the thread. But there are tons of threads on the ROTS forum about how Obi-wan was able to beat Anakin in a LS duel.

My point was that in the duel of WILLs when Kylo did a mind probe on Rey (he's 100% un-injured at that point), Rey is distressed, being tortured yet she's able to not only resist Kylo's mind-probe but actually beat it and instead she lashes out and reads Kylo's mind.

This is a Rey that has had 0 (zero) force training (at least since she was left on Jakku), and Kylo has been training since a very young age AND he taps into the dark side which is quicker and more seductive.

Obviously Kylo 'thinks' he's powerful and 'healthy' enough to take on both Finn and Rey at SKB. HE COULD HAVE RAN AND GET AID, but no he feels he's ok enough to beat both on them. So not only is he weak but he is dumb and doesn't know his own limitations. He had no reason to chase after them if he's injured. He was not forced to fight Finn and Rey. He could've asked for re-reinforcements to pursue and kill or capture them yet decides to go alone.

If the explanation is that Rey was "lucky" to beat Kylo the way she did then I will quote Obi-wan "in my experience there's no such thing as luck."

Ok even taking into account the injury on Kylo's side, it does not explain how someone that has never, ever, even held a lightsaber would be able to beat him so thoroughly as Rey did. At least you have to see this. Ask anyone that knows bushido.

Somehow TLJ I think will need to show either Rey taking a step back, or Kylo making a huge step forward (or Kylo and Rey confrontation will be delayed until EPIX), in order to be somewhat realistic to have an outcome where Kylo beats down Rey. Or it would be really bad IMHO.

 

in the novelization when kylo went to snoke about how he couldn't get the map from rey, snoke told him his problem was that he felt compassion for rey and that it was making him weak. did you take that into account?

i don't think rey was "lucky" to beat kylo. i do think she'll have more trouble beating him next time though. once again, it's not an arm wrestling match. there are a lot of factors.

as for trying to explain rey, some people have thought that rey isn't necessarily like force-users we've encountered before in these stories. maybe neither rey or kylo are. i would wait before doing some assessment on their respective powers because i think there may be more information coming.

 

He is and has been weak minded. He was manipulated from afar to turn. He wasn't clear minded the entire film, fighting the light. Rey has a strong mind. Untrained you can resist mind probing, hi princess Leia.
She worked for unkar plutt, she knows what had been done to the ship, she worked on it. She told him not to do it. Of course she knows how to fix it.

 

i remember kylo's mind was described as strong either in a source material or by someone involved - JJA? PH?

it was some statement like how after being in a strong mind like kylo's, rey was able to figure out how to manipulate the weaker mind of the stormtrooper.

note also that it took snoke a really long time to turn kylo -- this may have been a very large battle in his psyche that went on for most of his life. if it took 20 years to finally succumb to that, that's actually pretty strong.

as soon as kylo wanted to he thrust rey from his mind. he was able to shut the door when he wanted. i don't think it's so easy to shut the door on snoke though.

it also takes a strong mind to have the determination to keep going after you have a huge gash in your side that you probably have to use the force to keep together so you don't lose your blood and intestines. i think that kylo's mind/will is too strong for his own good. he forces himself to do things much of himself doesn't want to do to his own peril (and to the peril of others).

i see kylo ren as a weak person in that he is a coward and i think his identity is weak. he is also psychologically unstable. if his mind were weak as well, perhaps he wouldn't have gone down this course, would have given in, and let his family help him.

 

I think Rey was able to slip into his mind because he didn't think she was Force sensitive so didn't think he needed to have any barriers up.

I think a nice compare/contrast would be Rey trying to do it again, and he's prepared this time. Or, on the converse, he shares a forceback and willingly gives her a memory to see.

Also, another contrast would be his interactions with Snoke. He's probably used to putting up barriers when around Snoke, but when push comes to shove, Snoke can reach in and take whatever he wants. That would be a powerful way to show 1. Where Kylo learned the technique from and 2. How brutally painful it is to be on the receiving end of such a probe from someone even more powerful than yourself.

I've long thought that the mind probe is painful (eg, Rey) when you are actively using the Force to resist the probe. It didn't hurt Kylo when Rey entered his mind because he wasn't defending against it. It happened too fast for him to realize that she was there. Snoke reaching in could make Kylo's probe of Poe and Rey look like child's play. I will not be surprised if this is the way to show the power imbalance with Kylo and his master.

 

I think Rey is tapping into her innate Force abilities when she resists him

She beats him for the following reasons

He has been shot by Chewie's crossbow which would have killed most people.
The act of killing his father has weakened him in the Force.

Rey is listening to the Kyber crystal in the forrest and following the will of the Force
I think the Kybers amplify the midichlorians

Even if you normally do not read the SW comic, read the new Vader issue 5.
We see the Kyber crystal bleeding process for the first time
I think pouring all the hate and suffering into the crystal creates a continuous feedback of hate and pain to the wielder.
Kylo has a cracked red crystal, perhaps he is not getting the full effect. This is probably why he wanted the Skywalker light saber and the red crystal around his Uncle's neck.