ST Rey's Lineage / Parentage / Name

Today I was listening to the Darth Plagueis novel and it struck me how much emphasis was placed on the idea that only dark side users of the line of Bane were true "Sith".

 

To me none of the Rey's possibilities for parents would result in failed storytelling. Just as you feel that way about her turning out to be related to Anakin, I've read posts from many who believe that her being a Random makes no sense. I'll love the movie no less regardless of the outcome.

 

Yeah, I can see why some would not want Rey to be random, because having her be the descendant of an OT character (even a Palpatine, imo!) feels more meaningful than having her just pop out of nowhere and be so Force strong.

I should clarify, I would actually not mind Rey being related to Anakin were it not for the fact that the TFA filmmakers went about laying it on so thick that she is. That's what I object to, more than anything. They made it seem so obvious, they teased us with withholding her true parentage (possibly even until episode IX) and then to come out and say, "Oh guess what - there is no twist. She really is a Skywalker after all lol" would be infuriating to me. But anger leads to the dark side, so. XD

Anyway, that last part of your post we can agree on. You know that thread where they ask "What thing in episode VIII can make you walk out of the theater?" To me the answer is absolutely nothing the movie itself can do. I have my hopes for what I want to see play out, but I'll be happy for another Star Wars movie even if this pops up:

 

Oops, DP.

 

I wouldn't say that Obi Wan is completely irrelevant necessarily. They did have him calling out to her in her vision, and I could buy her hearing "stories" of him (since she's apparently heard them abut Luke and the Jedi). But yeah, there'd be no immediate emotional connection there for her, and it doesn't point to them necessarily being RELATED!!

 

What difference does it make that Anakin was close to Obi before becoming Vader? How is that relevant to this plot or this timeline? How will that affect characters' conduct? People keep saying it would be significant without explaining what would be significant about it. Would Snoke care? Why would he? Would Kylo care? Why would he? Would Rey care? Why would she? Would Leia care? Why would she? Would it affect any of those characters' decisions on anything in any way?

 

OB1 being turned into a deadbeat dad/unaware dad/absentee dad. Makes him seem like a hypocrite for being on Anakins case and then giving him grief about being kicked out of the JO for violating the code... and he went and popped out a kid as well. and we never hear about this kid. and never see this kid. Yoda does not mention this or OB1 when talking about "another". We can get on Lucas for the Luke/Vader and then Leia/Luke bits. At least he could say the story was not so refined. We have had 7 films history built up on various characters. To go and make this type of change now? That is the best they can do for where she came from? Just make her fully random. Heck, Rey is basically random now since we do not know much outside of she is alive.

 

That's the same oversimplification that I've seen before. Obviously it would mean something to the characters that knew Obi-Wan to have his granddaughter in their midst vs having "Rey Random". I'm sure you know that Obi-Wan wasn't just important to Anakin/Vader, but also to Luke. To Luke in particular it would mean something to be able to mentor Obi-Wan's granddaughter. To Rey, who is desperate to belong, it would mean even more to be connected to Luke and Leia beyond the incidental, which is how she is connected now and until her parentage is revealed. She might have a sense of having a legacy to uphold, of belonging to the Light, and this might aid her in resisting the Dark Side. Compare that to her being a Palpatine, for example. Where you come from matters. It doesn't dictate your future actions, but it does carry emotional weight. I don't get what's so difficult to understand about that?

Honestly, it's a rhetorical question. I'm not about to start another back and forth with you, especially not after that vague undercurrent of hostility in your post to me. Catch you later.

 

It's obviously not obvious to me, and it doesn't mean I'm oversimplifying anything. Perhaps you are over-convoluting the concept to justify it.

None of the characters in this trilogy besides Luke knew Obi Wan. Of course I know he was significant to Luke. That was in my initial post that you quoted. I said he isn't significant to anyone besides Luke. And really? You're saying this connects Rey to Luke and Leia? Great, except being part of the Skywalker line would accomplish that better. Rey could have a sense of legacy to uphold regardless of which random jedi she's a descendant from, hence my jedi #426 comment. Comparing it to Palpatine, I have the exact same reaction.

I wasn't hostile toward you. I didn't say you are a simpleton. I asked for clarification of your point after you quoted me. Feel free to ignore me. I'm not seeking out your posts to quote.

Rey could be said to have heard of General Kenobi the same way she could be said to have heard of any jedi. Regardless, Obi Wan isn't a significant person in her awareness to justify Rey Kenobi, because otherwise they would have had some kind of comment or reference from Rey. It would have been easy to slip it in at any point, what with Obi being Kylo Ren's namesake and Rey and Han had plenty of time to chit chat.

Ultimately I feel like Rey Kenobi would be the ultimate shoehorn, and I also feel that way about Rey Palpatine and any other non-Anakin legacy. There was no build-up to it in TFA. No relevance planted for it. She might as well be random. If she is Kenobi, cool, I'm with those that in terms of the imagery would prefer it to Rey Random and I would be happy to see an extended Kenobi line, but in terms of plot it's convoluted, requires massive retcons, and it might as well be Rey Random for all the impact it has on Rey's story.

 

AhsokaSolo I think we agree about preferring Rey Kenobi to Rey Random

I am not so much saying it's likely but likelier than Random because of how TFA remixes all the elements of TFA. To me the pros of Rey Kenobi are in reference to the result itself, not how they got there.

The only Rey identity answer I would argue for on a "how they get there" basis for me would be Rey Solo because it would tie up Yoda's "There is another" and require no "who is the mother?" backstory. Which to me are pretty film and story-based concerns though we Rey Legacy boosters tend to have our reasons dismissed as religiosity, Old EU-obsession, hardcore focus on arcana no matter how much we ground them in the films.

 

Tanjint
I am confused... Yoda's "There is another" --> that is Leia. Are you referring to Leias current Force skills seemingly undeveloped?

for Kenobi angle. I much rather her be random than OB1s descendant.

 

I don't.

 

Was literally referring to the post right above mine.

 

Just sayin'

 

To me what the hell is the point of "there is another" if Leia never develops her skills in a way that could mean her personally fulfilling the prophecy unless she is meant to not be a Jedi precisely so she can do what she does as well as be a mom and birth the next generation of Skywalkers and Balance-Bringers?

I suppose Ben can redeem himself and save the day in Episode 9 like Vader did in 6 but I would also be happy to see her be Rey, the one who will actually finish the prophecy portended in Vader, 's mother. Otherwise it was just Yoda saying, 'we have a backup plan' which to me isn't that great. He didn't even say it in front of Luke so you can't even chalk it up to, "He was just sharing with Luke that Leia was his sister...".

 

I feel like the "there is another" comment is already explained. I'm not of those that think a question lingers there.

The reason the "who is the mother?" question doesn't seem significant in my mind is this is SW. The entire OT happened without anyone wondering who Luke's mother was. Even in ANH before we knew who daddy was, daddy was referenced and mama bear was not. SW isn't kind to mothers. Mama Padme was screwed. Leia was pretty much screwed in TFA. I'm not anticipating a whole lotta change there moving forward. SW likes daddy relationships.

I didn't really know there was a Rey Legacy brigade getting a steady stream of religiosity criticisms. I'm just giving my opinion on the idea, and I'm only doing that because I genuinely don't think it's likely. SW saga films aren't for the hardcore fans. They are for the general audience. Yes, the general audience knows who Ben is, but they also think Ben died childless as a jedi monk type. But I digress, that is getting pretty off track from my initial point.

 

I would think being a Kenobi would take an excessively convoluted backstory since we know where he was (in general) from the time he handed Luke off until struck down by Vader. True perhaps he had some dalliances, but it seems to me this would really be very difficult to make palatable to fandom, considering he was relatively straight laced in the prequels and bound by rules concerning emotional attachments. Then we would need to add to that another quick backstory for the Obi-wan offspring and who then the other partner was. It just seems to be a difficult route to go. Rey being Luke's offspring can be explained in a manner that does not put him in the deadbeat category with much less effort than that, though it would take a pretty solid backstory. Rey being random is the easiest of course, but less satisfying to many who hope for some type a familial connection to the OT, or who are opposed to a new "Chosen One". But Kenobi ... no, in my opinion there is too much backstory to catch up on to make that viable.

 

I always took it to mean, Leia is plan b. Yoda did mention another Skywalker to Luke (ROTJ), which is how the whole Leia reveal gets kicked off. This one I am close to blaming the creative folks in TFA for. They could have done something with Leia/Force and at this time seem to have not done so. They wrote her into such a broken life, and it does bother me the more I look at it. While she seems strong, was it needed to pile on pain/problems/suffering to the level it currently is? That is where Rey as her kid has a sentimental appeal for me big time. I could go into all the bad luck her character has had... it is a lot.

EDIT:
They may have written the Skywalkers in such a negative light on purpose, has value further in the story. It seems overly excessive to me, Leia more so than Luke.

 

At the end of the day, "There is another" in the movies functioned to foreshadow the Leia reveal in Episode 6. I get that. But given how cool and important most stuff Yoda says I always thought it was not too much of a stretch to get some in-film follow up to what is actually a pretty important utterance.

In universe, Obi Wan is saying Luke was their last hope. Yoda said, "No, there is another".

That other leads rebellion, republic and resistance forces and births the next Darth Vader. Furthermore, Luke's ROTJ victory doesn't actually resolve all that much given the dire state of things by the time TFA begins. I'm not complaining about that as it's a natural fact of continuing a saga but in universe now would be about the time that whole "there is another" stuff would actually pay off. If Rey is her kid, redeems her brother Ben and saves the Galaxy old Yoda's looking pretty wise and cool with that whole 'there is another' thang. Then Yoda was right about Luke not being able to resolve things because he didn't complete his training before Vader exposed him to the truth about his lineage. Then Yoda's phrase has significance because this plan B had to go into action, which is usually how adventure stories work.

Oh I haven't heard you say that stuff about Rey Legacy boosters. And I don't take it personally that Rey Legacy skeptics do, I was just saying I find it humorous that those are the kinds of words used to describe Rey Legacy reasoning because I think my reasons are pretty based on the films.

 

I think there's a very specific reason Leia never took up jedi training. I'm sure it's not an oversight in TFA. I could totally see her telling Luke she'll do it once the New Republic stuff cools down...and then it never does.
Oooor she's terrified of tapping into that power. You know the whole Pandora's Box thing?

Then there's the whole Vader was your father thing. Is it a stretch to say she's worried about the awesome responsibility that comes with that power? Didn't Spider Man have a saying about that topic?

 

I definitely agree with you that the Skywalker twins were certainly given terrible lives, given what we see in TFA , and figuring out the backstory of the years between RotJ and TFA. However, I disagree that things were worse for Leia than for Luke. At least Leia got to know love, and a family, even if it did fall apart eventually. She has always been a respected leader. She has always had many colleagues supporting her. Yes, I was hoping to see her develop her force gifts, but I can understand why she might have chosen not to do that. Her reaction to Vader being their father wasn't as positive as Luke's was. She never even really thought of him as her father. Bail organa was her father. And, she might have feared falling to the darkside if she learned how to use the force, so she chose not to become a Jedi.

On the other hand, if Rey is not Luke's daughter, he really has nothing. It would mean that he never found love or had a family. We already know that the Jedi order that he spent many years building all by himself, with no colleagues to help him, was completely destroyed, which means that all of those years training students, ended up being a waste. He also lost his nephew to the dark side. He spent about a decade totally alone without family, friends, or even Artoo detoo. That's a LONG time to spend alone! I think that's a really sad and disappointing life for the guy who was the main hero of the OT. It's like he never accomplished anything after age 23, and he never really knew joy.

Then, of course, he wasn't even given a role to play in TFA. Someone reminded me yesterday that we found out that new films were going to be made back in 2012. Yet, we won't get to see Luke Skywalker even speak one word until it's almost 2018. I've waited a LONG time to see luke play a role in a Star Wars film, and I still need to wait almost two more years. I'm hoping that there will be something that will make that wait at least somewhat worth it. I really hope that Rey is Luke's kid. That would really help. And the guy deserves to have something good and positive in his life.

 

I'm not sure why you keep repeating this like it is fact. We know that Han and Leia are together in Bloodline, which is 6 years before TFA, so obviously the Jedi Massacre hasn't occured yet. So Luke has been alone for at most 6 years.

 

Yup and Pablo Hidalgo said the Jedi attack and the scene with the Knights of Ren in the rain are two separate things so he hasn't even been gone that entire time most likely. He went looking for the Jedi Temple but he had to find it first.

 

I think that some people are still operating under the impression that the Jedi massacre and Rey being dropped off on Jakku happened at the same time, or at least in close proximity to one another. However Pablo has already stated that the former happened much later than the latter. So Luke hasn't been gone nearly as long as some people think, nor have Leia and Han been apart for as long either.

 

Riddle me this, Batman, what is the reason for the "Lars homestead" musical cue (the moment Luke sees his smoldering aunt and uncle in ANH and decides to go with Obi-Wan to Alderaan, thus...) right at the very moment Rey chooses (and symbolically snatches it from Kylo) to take up the Skywalker lightsaber?

I don't know how I never caught it during my first viewing but it stunned me the second time. It was pretty powerful.

 

Tanjint,

Actually I did say before that just based on evidence within the story, I could not eliminate Rey Kenobi (as her grandfather, of course). I can only reasonably eliminate those characters who are alive at the time of TFA's story, namely Luke, Leia, and Han.

I know what I say can be confusing since I have to be brief sometimes and use the term "Rey Legacy" but with slightly different meanings. Sometimes I use it to mean only Luke & Leia/Han, but sometimes I use it to mean "not Rey Random".

To me Rey Kenobi is an unlikely option due to "meta" reasons. I disagree that it's meaningless as others have opined. A good writer still has wiggle room in episode VIII to make it meaningful. It's just think it's a really bad retcon. It renders untrue several basic assumptions we've had about Ben Kenobi since 1977. Some people like this, I really hate it. It's a crutch -- a reliance on changing the meaning behind old stories to write new stories. It shows lack of imagination on the writer's part. I would think most people would hate it too, as retcons have the tendency to upend meaningful events and relationships in old stories. Comic books are filled with these and they're horrible -- Gwen Stacy had an affair with Norman Osborne? Jason Todd is alive? Jean Grey's not really dead? Obi-wan was babysitting Luke instead of his own children?

Could they do it? Well... yes. Prometheus is a prime example of one of the worst retcons in film (not to mention it was another classic example of "idiot plot"). Will they do it? Based on how much I think Abrams places ANH on a pedestal, I seriously doubt it.

The other reason is the way TFA was structured -- "going back to move forward". We are re-introduced to the OT's main characters as a segue to the new and so we have Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, Artoo, and Threepio. No Kenobi. If we have another re-introduction in VIII of legacy characters then it begins to look like amateur hour. When do you really plan to go forward? It's still possible, but I think the amount of retcon required for a Kenobi ancestry trumps any other reason why Rey's unlikely to be a Kenobi.

I don't actually even think about what if she were Rey Legacy anymore. What I struggle with is what they plan to do next. I just think about what were the writers thinking to have set up this story this way, because it seems so unusual. On one hand (if you believe Rey Random), she's gone through her struggle of her loneliness/belonging issues and has embraced her "adoptive" family future. Rey never struck me as bitter about her abandonment -- just really lonely for genuine human companionship, something that seems to be resolved by TFA with her adventure with BB-8 and Finn and the rest of the legacy Star Wars "family". Her family issues seem to be over and done with. On the other hand, what will Rey's internal struggle be in VIII that would need resolving in IX? I honestly don't have solid theories right now but I suspect that it's her fury -- anger against those who would try to hurt her new family. Her temper and "shoot-now, ask questions later" attitude was very prominent in TFA and it's most likely a set up for things to come.

On the subject of her parents -- they could go with the Star Wars equivalent of the "poor, foundling finds out later her family is rich" story (the story of Sans Famille comes to mind). In the case of Star Wars, Rey might later discover her parents are somehow important in some respect that matters to the story and the wider galactic conflict. I can't articulate it well right now, but something about that feels off. It just feels lazy for a lack of a better term. It doesn't seem worthy of the best of 21st century storytelling that the golden age of TV has ushered.

Another track I'm thinking, and I'm leaning more to this theory, is they've already made Rey's beginnings in Jakku as humble as possible, why not go all the way? Make Rey's parents' origins as humble as possible and as far away from any obvious link to the galactic conflict as possible. It's the complete opposite of the Rey Skywalker theory and is probably going to cause the greatest amount of gasps and uproar among hardcore SW fans that are hungry for connections. But honestly I don't know yet how that translates to a satisfying story, though I have some unpolished ideas -- including the very slow reveal I had previously mentioned, where the focus of her backstory shows why Rey is Rey before her experience in Jakku. It won't have anything to do with the Force, Jedi Academy, Kylo, Han/Leia, Luke. It's a backstory of what molded Rey into a tenacious survivor and optimist before she was abandoned, which will be the traits that carry Rey into greatness into episode IX. Her Force-sensitivity will be helpful but probably not central. If it's something like that, then the names of her real parents won't really matter compared to finding out what they did for her when she was a child. That kind of direction would be consistent with a character-driven film which TFA has established itself to be.