ST Rey's Various Abilities Discussion Thread

I hope episode 8 reveals something about Rey that makes her ability to pick up force powers the way she did with no training seem more believable. I don't want jedi training reduced to being the same thing as a monkey seeing a human put a square block into a square hole and repeating the task himself. I hope she is the reincarnation of the 1st ever jedi or something.

 

Oh I agree that extent to which Rey can use certain abilities begs for an explanation, and I hope they don't wait until ep. 9 to give it. I was more referring to people who question how Rey would even think of trying something like a mind trick or pulling the saber. I think the movie does enough (if only just enough) to show how the idea might get in Rey's head, but her proficiency doing these things is still questionable.

 

But Star Wars isn't a long running series of novels, and the force is the "result of such devoted study, and years and years of effort." And it's communicated this is the way the force works time and time again. Training is key. Respect for knowledge and the acquisition of that knowledge is key.

"These films aren't about showing all the steps to learning difficult abilities." Of course not, what are we going to do, sit there for a few months? But they are about showing that learning is part of the equation. That dedication is essential. And that nothing, absolutely nothing, comes for free.

Luke used force pull after knowing the force existed. After realizing he was connected to it and feeling its bond over the long period of time between ANH and ESB. Even then, it required deep focus. Rey is not like Luke, or Anakin or any Jedi. If they don't retcon that she was previously trained, then she is an anomaly in Star Wars. She would be nothing like any Jedi that came before her.

 

We're all arguing these points in the vacuum of not knowing what comes after TFA yet. For now, though, we know that Anakin and Luke were both inherently very strong in the Force and used it in various ways before even knowing what it was or that they were doing so. Anakin received a fairly full training regimen (not completely full because they initially said he was too old, which means he'd missed some early training). Luke essentially received a crash course from Obi-Wan and Yoda. Even the Dagobah training was a very condensed and short timeframe thing.

Even if all that isn't enough, then maybe that gets us back to my first point; maybe "The Force Awakens" really refers to how the Force is now more actively playing a role in addition to just having the will we've already been told it had. Maybe now it is essentially telling someone directly, "use me like this".

 

You mean it controls your actions?

 

Yeah, it's just a possibility or even a new way to look at how people interact with the Force. If it has a will, which we've been told, then it's not neccesarily impossible. But my main point is we don't know yet what else the upcoming movies may reveal about Rey or the Force.

"Partially. But it also obeys your commands."

 

Neither Luke nor Anakin used the force in any way like Rey did. They used the force to amplify normal human ability. Anakin was a great pilot. Luke's instincts were heightened allowing him to press a button at the right time. So, we have Luke and Anakin driving and pushing buttons, and then Rey, using mind control and moving objects with her mind. Do you not see the problem here?

Anakin and Luke were gifted in the force, which augmented their natural human abilities, like driving and using fingers. They weren't using magic powers.

Everything about Rey's abilities are wrong. Luke gets knocked out from a Tusken Raider hitting him with a stick. It's literally lights out for ten minutes. Rey gets thrown 30 feet into the air, 50 feet away into a tree. Gets up and shakes it off.

I repeat, if Rey wasn't trained, we have a problem here. And no amount of "will of the force" will sell these abilities to me. Luke was around during a far darker chapter in the history of a GFFA and the force stayed quietly on the sidelines. Now that the good guys are actually strong, the force decides to create an uber warrior in Rey? Not buying it. Not now. Not ever.

 

You begin to hedge by the end of your post so the significance of my reply may be limited.

I do want to clarify some details regarding Luke. His blind deflection of laser bolts is not remarkable. It is demonstrably a basic ability that younglings are shown doing in the prequels. He does have some remarkable success using the force in a piloting endeavor. But, he was already a talented pilot. This is of course a piloting accomplishment, and not a display of combative superiority over another force wielder. Luke had already performed telekinesis prior to ESB in what is currently canon.

Though Rey is a remarkably talented pilot, this isn't unreasonable given Luke and Anakin's vehicular aptitude as precedent. I have very little problem with what Rey does when Kylo is not involved. Some latent manifestation of force prowess is not unprecedented, but to manifest in such a way that it challenges a more experienced force practitioner is strange. So, the mind trick is more acceptable than her ability to wrestle away the lightsaber blade from Kylo. One suggests superiority over a stormtrooper, the other is of course more significant.

Attributing force prowess to the power of positive thinking is not a successful response. Rey simply goes from being much better than everyone else for whatever reason that is, to being much better than everyone because she's a more positive thinker.

 

Yes what one can do with the Force is a matter of belief, but training isn't about learning how to believe. If it was only about believing children would always be the most powerful Force users in the galaxy. As Lulu Mars said, and you hinted at, training is about learning control, and being in the right state of mind to be able to control the Force.

I don't think people actually want to see training, I think what people have an issue with is the on screen speed in which her powers expand. Over the course of maybe 30 on screen minutes she goes from not even knowing what the Force is to using the most advance Force power we have ever seen Luke use over the course of three movies.

 

I'm in agreement with Pro Scoundrel when I say that this is a godawful idea.

 

OK, and to that I'll just post my earlier follow-up on that point.

 

Did they send me daughters, when I asked for mens?!


lol

 

Dagobah is about far more than just force use. We never see him use any new force skills there anyway. Dagobah is about control. The wisdom and ethics of force use. And how its use for good or ill shapes one's destiny, and vice versa.


I see in some of the other posts that the need for training experience is what Star Wars tells us and should not be circumvented.

Star Wars tells us that about successfully being a responsible, ethical guardian of peace and justice etc. i.e. Being a Jedi knight or master. It does not tell us that about force use.

With Luke, it was shown that use of the Force comes either instinctively or through awareness raising (and when the story needs it). The ability to use the force means that someone has the potential, after dedication, training and experience, to mature into one of those Guardians whose strength is defined by the alliance they have formed with the force as a result of that training.

 

I rewatched the movie this Sunday and it really jumped out at me, she seems to have every skill in the book. Even Anakin the Space Jesus wasn't busting out mind-tricks moments after learning about the Force. Wonder how they'll justify it in the last Jedi.

 

I hope they give a good reason other than she's a quick learner or the force is monkey see monkey do(even though that didn't work for Luke when he saw Obi-Wan doing the mind trick in ANH)

 

The only definition given for the mind trick is that the force can have a strong influence on the weak minded. I can't think of anything in the movies that makes it seem that it requires a quantity of will and control that Rey does not possess. In fact a quantity is never alluded to at all in the matter. The gap between Luke witnessing Obi Wan's success and Luke using it himself is often cited. It should be remembered, particularly in the context of the OT, that these individual abilities emerge when the story needs them to. Not the other way round.

 

Her grabbing the light-saber with the force while Kylo was also trying to force grab it left me a little surprised also. How did she pick up that skill so fast. If you read novels you would see that Luke was still struggling in moving noodles with the force after ANH.

 

If you read the novels, Leia is able to pick a lightsaber up and hold her own against Vader after ANH.

 

well Luke sure could've used those mind trick abilities when they were trying to rescue Leia on the DS .
and what does

mean ?

.

 

After Luke witness Obi-wan doing the mind trick, a situation did arise that he could of used it. When they were being questioned by that imperial officer when they were bring chewie to the cell block he could of mind tricked him to release Leia to his custody. But Luke using a mind trick then so soon, would of been just as silly as Rey using it to escape did in my opinion.

 

The detention centre scene is designed to illustrate Luke's eagerness, courage, but also his foolhardiness.He has Han and Chewie with him. And he is facing several guards on their territory. So the story did not require him to use the mind trick. The story at that point required them to get to Leia but also get them straight into trouble.

Rey's attempt comes immediately after her exposure to Ren's attempted Force interrogation on her. And it is required to save her own neck in that scene. She is on her own and the outside chance of doing to the trooper what Ren tried on her is her only weapon or ally.

I don't see how it would have been silly if the story was designed in 77 to show Luke having remembered what Obi Wan did and attempting it on the five or six guards facing them. Even if he had succeeded. The reason people all calling Rey's story silly is that they presume that it was no used in ANH because the audience would have thought it silly. (after seeing Luke pre-empt and block laser bolts blindfold?!)

 

That wouldn't really have been necessary then, though - what Luke said was believable enough.

The writers of TFA created the peril, and wrote the way to get her out of it; this is what I feel some people miss. It's not tht the story was written in chronological order and they couldn't think of a way to get Rey to escape so just thought "have her use the Jedi mind trick" - the process is more likely to be that they wanted to write ways to show Rey's quickly growing force power (they even make reference to her power growing as she tests it on screen) and created the peril to show the powers they wanted her to have.

When you add to this that there is a mysterious backstory to Rey, I do wonder why so many people have assumed that its all a big cock up that the final two episodes need to sort out, rather than that it's been planned out and that the question "How is Rey so powerful?" is an *intended* reaction, not a side effect of writers clumsily getting Rey out of a tight spot that they wrote themselves.

 

There are other ways to escape that would of made more sense, like her picking the lock then knocking out the 1 trooper they left guarding her.I'm sorry but her being able to use a mind trick makes no sense in context to what we've seen in previous movies. That's Why I hope episode 8 clears it up by explaining what is so unique about her that let's what she did in 7 with force powers seem reasonable.