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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Rey's Various Abilities Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Darth Geezy, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. S73

    S73 Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2014

    Wow. Certainly didn't mean to be so divisive. Let me state my feelings another way.

    As a lifelong Star wars fan, I have been waiting for over 30 years to see what Luke would become after ROTJ. I fear that this last trilogy will become more about Rey than Luke. That would be disappointing to me as I think many of us can't wait to see Luke whip ass similar to DV in Rogue 1.

    I was very disappointed that Yoda was built up to be all powerful but managed to allow Dooku to escape and then had similar results with Palpatine. I remember being in the theater when Yoda walked into Palpatine's chamber and w/o even making a gesture wiped out his guards & my thoughts were "here it comes" Yoda on full display. The whole theater went nuts, and then.....a disappointing climax. Similar in the way I felt about Anakin, here I thought we would see this deep dark character w/ depth and he turned out to be a whiny adolescent.

    After 30 years I would be disappointed if Luke ends up following a similar story line. It seems to me that Star wars can't quite figure out how powerful they want their characters to be. Yoda is billed as the most powerful but Windu ( a minor character in the cinematic universe) defeats DS, while Yoda cannot.

    I am disappointed that for 2 years I couldn't wait to see KR on the big screen & he appears at the beginning of the movie to have major power (stopping laser bolt in mid air) and has the whole mask, intimidation thing going and Rey seems like an average person and yet defeats him in the end despite seeming to be untrained. Feels like the same pattern of SW building up a character in our imaginations only to show us they are not who we thought they were.

    I guess I saw Rey as kind of a pathetic character hoping beyond hope that she would be rescued from Jakku when the audience knew it wasn't going to happen. I have NO PROBLEM w/ her becoming powerful but not this soon. UNLESS, they have a solid explanation for it. If she's Anakin reincarnated, then I suppose I could live with that as an explanation.

    But...my point about the male / female equation was that all the evil beings in SW are men. Now if Anakin reincarnated is a female it seems to me as though the SW is almost suggesting that the men can't get it right so let's bring in this female to save the day.

    No hate speech intended. I would just rather see Anakin in more his original form redeeming himself. That seems like it would be most fair to the character IMO.

    Again, no offense intended.
     
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I don't like the "Anakin reincarnated" storyline at all so I hope that doesn't happen. And I prefer Jyn Erso to Rey for the reasons you stated; she did not wait to be rescued.

    That said though, I found Kylo Ren far more pathetic with his melodrama and petulance, so I had no issue with him getting his ass handed to him, any more than I had issues with Anakin getting his ass handed to him in AOTC when he behaved similarly.
     
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  3. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014

    You haven't been waiting to see what happened to Luke for 30 years, because for most of the last thirty years the official Lucasfilm position has been that a sequel trilogy is either unlikely, or completely ruled out. You might have wanted to see more films, but you weren't waiting - and you definitely can't use your "wait" as if that gives filmmakers a responsibility to indulge you, since they hadn't said anything to cause you to wait since before 1999.

    You've been waiting since Disney bought Lucasfilm. Absolutely nobody in the making of the film has suggested that Mark Hamill would be the leading character in the ST, and if anything the entirety of TFA should be (and I can't think of any other way of seeing it) seen as setting up Luke as a far more important character than the straightforward "old Jedi being a guiding figure on a new adventure with his kids" that people expected.

    I'm not really sure how Rey being the lead would inherently exclude Luke from having moments to shine.

    I do however find it pretty funny how many people keep repeating variations of "We need to see Luke being a badass" though, considering that pre the ST, Luke's last actions, and those which cemented his status as a Jedi, were to throw down his lightsaber and refuse to fight, and then to comfort his father and former nemesis in his dying moments.

    In a way, I see the people shouting "we need to see Luke being badass" almost as metaphors for a possible in-universe contribution to Luke leaving; he's a powerful Jedi, and people are loudly, desperately calling on him to use his power against an enemy, but he knows that his power is dangerous.
     
  4. S73

    S73 Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2014


    I respectfully disagree. Lucas was originally not going to do the prequel but then he relented. Lucas was not going to do a 3rd trilogy but then sold it off. In the meantime, from the end of the the OT until now there has always been periodic "rumors" of more SW. As a life long fan I always held out hope that more would be made & they would include Luke as a master Jedi.

    As far as nobody suggesting Luke would be the main character, rumors and teasers abound my friend. NOBODY knew what was coming but that's what I was hoping for. CLEARLY I would say that most people felt the same way since they ended the movie w/ Rey meeting Luke as a cliffhanger. Cliffhangers are meant to draw you into to the next episode and Disney knew Luke was just the character to do it.

    I've said this before, The Force and the Jedi/Sith are what seperate SW from other science fiction. It's the thing to see. It's like going to a Marvel film, you expect to see the big baddies of the Marvel Universe square off. You may feel differently, but I'm perfectly within my rights to want to see the character I grew up with being a bad ass. I may not get that wish and that will be disappointing to me, so be it. But SW has always kind of done this. It was almost 2/3 of the OT before we saw DV really unleash, & almost 3 before Palpatine & almost 5 before Yoda.

    I would like Disney to show Luke in all his glory. That's my wish it doesn't have to be yours. As for the whole "Luke left b/c he such a bad ass" theory..you know this is fiction right? Luke only feels the way the writers want him to feel. I for one hope they feel like making him a bad ass.
     
  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    To me, Luke being a physical badass would not be Luke, it would be out of character.

    He's not a wuss, but he's not known for his physical prowess.

    He is a *psychological* badass, and as such, his throwing down his saber in front of Palpatine was one of the most badass acts in Star Wars. I don't want *that* to change.
     
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  6. Mostly Handless

    Mostly Handless Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2017
    This^^^
    Part of me is a little worried that there will be a backlash of sorts from some corners of fandom when TLJ is finally released, and Luke inevitably turns out not to be the main character.

    Exactly although the Jedi's ability to use to force is in many ways a superpower, Luke's true secret weapon has always been his courage and his compassion. Hence why he was able to win were many of the old Order's best and brightest (Mace Windu, Yoda) had failed. To degenerate the character into 'a badass' would be disrespectful to his prior development. But Rian Johnson strikes me as the kind of filmmaker who'd be aware of this. :)
     
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  7. S73

    S73 Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2014

    I have no issue with this. I'm not saying badass like he pulls a DV at the end of Rogue 1. I'm saying badass like he has the ability to do something when needed & everybody knows that. Kind of the way Snoke seems to fear him. What I'm saying is I don't want to see Luke like Yoad in TESB at the degobah system while everybody else is in the frey. I want to see him and his abilities used. And I'd like to see some new force abilities that he's obtained from his meditations and training.

    That's what I'm referring to. A wise Luke who has great power & wisdom like Yoda but is utilized more in the action.
     
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  8. WhyKnock

    WhyKnock Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2016

    If they could make a sequel to Return of the Jedi after 33 years and not have Luke show up till the very end and not say a word, I'm sure they can break it to people easily that Luke is no longer the main character.

    (Actually I think they did that with TFA by not having him in the movie really.)
     
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  9. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    This thread is about Rey's abilities in TFA, not Luke's theoretical abilities in TLJ. Let's get back on topic.
     
  10. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    That was rather illogical, considering you already knew that the Emperor would be the ruler of the galaxy for several years after the conclusion of the PT. You knew that Yoda had been unable to prevent the destruction of the Jedi, and was living in exile on a fetid swamp planet.
     
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  11. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Martoto77 this means you, too.
     
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  12. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    So can she sense feelings in other people now, like Kylo can?

    Is that one of the reasons she and Leia hug when they saw each other for the first time?
     
  13. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016

    Yep.
     
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  14. Godzilla2099

    Godzilla2099 Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Rey was by far the worst character in the Force Awakens.

    "I heard of the Force." A few hours later:

    - She's flying the Millennium Falcon against experienced TIE Pilots,
    - Resisting mind control from Sith-Wannabe
    - Mind controlling the James Bond Storm Trooper,
    - Beats Sith-Wannabe in Lightsaber Combat.

    Rogue One hit all the marks with strong character development. Rey was beyond over the top.
     
  15. Artoo-Dion

    Artoo-Dion Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2009
    I think "wannabe" is a crucial point there. Also, I don't remember Rey in Tangled?
     
  16. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Rey is, IMHO, going to be the most powerful Jedi ever. She will more or less how the power of God be the end of the ST.
     
  17. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I wrote this in another thread but I think it suits this one better:
     
  18. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Doesn't really sound that over the top when you look at the precedent. Force sensitive characters have always been presented as excellent pilots - Anakin, Luke even Obi-Wan in ROTS was going up against swarms of fighters and winning. It's inherently better reflexes and instincts even if you don't have formal training, so her being an excellent pilot is not out of nowhere.

    Both of the examples of her coming out ahead of Kylo are at least as much to him having more power than practice. Even though she did win the duel, it was not exactly a smooth process and there's a whole thread on the hows and whys it fell out the way it did. Kylo's little mind invasion trick worked on the not-at-all force sensitive Poe but we've never seen any force user use a mind trick on another force user before - perhaps resistance/immunity comes with the package.

    The only thing that really stands out is being able to pull a mind trick with no prior training but that could simply be her having natural talent - and it took her several attempts anyway.
     
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  19. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I'm on board with Rey's piloting and combat abilities as a way of intuiting the Force. However, I don't buy her instinctively using a Jedi mind trick, an ability that takes time to master and presumably requires conscious control.
     
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  20. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Luke was able to quickly learn how to block lasers in ANH. Truth is, we don't know how long it takes to learn the skill, though considering the fact that both Snoke and Kylo were able to sense her "awakening" in the Force, it could very well be that learning such skills could come very easily to her....especially after having probed the mind of a powerful Force user who already has the skill. In fact, the mind-probe and JMT could be very closely related.

    Besides, it took her a few tries...and stormtroopers are already designated as "weak-minded" as per ANH, so it probably didn't take much effort in that particular case.
     
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  21. Jolee Bindo

    Jolee Bindo Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2016
    We don't really know from the first six films how advanced a skill the mindtrick is. So I think it's legitimate for TFA to depict it as a fairly intuitive skill that flows easily from a Force sensitive person's natural telepathy.
     
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  22. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I never took her mind trick as instinctive. She either unwittingly took the information from Kylo when she entered his mind, or recovered a few memories from the past when he unwittingly unlocked them...
     
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  23. Jolee Bindo

    Jolee Bindo Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2016

    My take was that by experiencing Kylo's probe she was able to instinctively imitate his telepathy and begin to unlock some of her mind power. In my view there's no hard distinction between performing a "mind trick" and a "mind probe", and any other use of the Force to sense or manipulate another's thoughts. They're merely specific applications of the same ability. So Rey's discovery of her inherent ability to resist Kylo's probe, and probe in return, allowed her to become aware of her ability to use her mind against others, which led to the mind trick.
     
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  24. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    "She's just beginning to test her powers."

    Kylo understands that their mind duel opened her mind to the larger world of the Force.
    It's not inconceivable that she would begin to sense things in a different way and realize that she can manipulate the weaker mind of that stormtrooper.
     
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  25. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2015
    I think this being the first case of a force sensitive using a mind trick (of any variety) on another force sensitive suggests the circumstances are different. Perhaps merely by having force/mental link with someone imposed on her, Rey became inherently aware it could be done and a vague idea as to how. Hence only a few tries to pulling it off on a stormtrooper - who has been brainwashed and indoctrinated since a young age, probably not leading to strong willpower or high faculty.