ST Rey's Various Abilities Discussion Thread

Yeah, I agree. While I didn't mind it that much (I like the scene after all) and I am willing to accept the explanations we've been given so far, that was the one thing that I think makes the least amount of sense.

 

I think it makes the most sense actually. She has Kylo running around in her mind, is able to get him out and then go into his (through essentially the door that he opened), and later she repeats that with the stormtrooper. I suppose if I were really looking to devote more screen time to it (because that's what we're really talking about here), and fix it so that fanboys wouldn't complain about it, I'd have Rey start off with just sensing and then probing the Stormtrooper, before getting the idea to control him (very difficult concepts to visually show though).

The lightsabre pull is the one that doesn't sit right with me, it really does come out of nowhere and the look on her face doesn't evoke enough intention on her part, like she doesn't realise what she's done. When Luke is upside, he really wants that lightsabre. When Kylo holds out his hand, he really wants that lightsabre... I've never liked the moment. The music is good though.

 

That is quite literally the explanation in the novelization. It's not a bad one, by any means (although I do feel that there's a difference between mind reading and mind control, but no biggie). However, I think you got it right; it would be very hard to show in the movie without some clumsy exposition (like Rey verbalizing her plan to herself before doing it). I guess at the end of the day, I wish it could've been made clearer what was going on in the movie, but if it's a deal breaker for someone, I think they're taking the movie a little too seriously.

Never thought of it that way. I personally really liked the moment. However, I did process it in two different ways which may have lead me to a different conclusion. First of all, I took Rey's expression to be one of amazement that she was able to do it in the first place, not surprise as to what happened, if that makes any sense. Secondly, I saw it as her formally committing herself to the Jedi path, something she'd been running from ever since she heard about it. I thought it was a good way to show it without words; when Maz tells her to take the saber at the castle, Rey said she wouldn't touch it, she didn't want anything to do with it, e.g. she would not follow that path. And then, at the end, she chooses to take the saber, reversing her earlier decision.

I thought it worked, although you do bring up interesting points.

 

The mind probe/trick scene - I don't see what mistake it made.

Ren has unwittingly shown her the ropes. It resembles an arm wrestling contest. The first few times, Rey is helpless and Ren gets something our of her. But she is totally conscious of and sensitive to what's going on "Get our of my head." If someone challenges you to an arm wrestle you know how to try and win. It doesn't take training or discussion. It's intuitive, even if you are not initially successful. Ren is profoundly disturbed by Rey's resilience, showing weaknesses to her for the first time. Rey simply follows through by sensing Ren's deepest insecurities which are brought to the front of his mind because of Rey's defiance.

So following that, Rey does what anyone does when they discover strength they didn't know they had. Particularly if it gets them out of a tight spot.

As for the saber pull. It's the same dynamic as the mind probe/tug of war. I don't know what it violates about Luke's first success at this.

 

I don't believe Rey has totally given up on finding her family. But how is she going to find them? Fly the Falcon from one planet to the next and ask people, "Have you seem my parents?" Look them up in the New Republic phone book? There's just no way.

Her only hope to track them down is to find some kind of seer or psychic who can point her in the right direction. That's a job for a Jedi master. And she's just learned where to find one.

 

Maybe. As I understand it, her backstory will be resolved by the series end, so that does strongly suggest that she reconnects with any surviving family or at least learns what happened. At any rate, judging by the new trailer, it looks like a lot of questions that have been raised in this thread will be addressed in some fashion in TLJ.

 

edit: deleted post

 

the saber pull is also mostly done showing kylo and his confusion that he can't grab it. i bet rey saw this from the beginning. she sees he's trying to use the force to grab it. she knows the force can be used for telekinesis as kylo threw her into a tree earlier. so she puts it together and tries to grab the saber with the force.

 

I think a lot depends on how much trust you have in the creative team behind the movie.

If you trust that the team knows in great detail all that has been presented before, and has respect for it, then you have to believe that Rey's extraordinary abilities, the speed with which she picks up/manifests various Force-skills, is part of a design, is something that will be explained, and that Rey is a pretty unusual person (for reasons not yet explained).

If you have less confidence (ha!) you are annoyed, or angry, and feel like Rey makes a mockery of what has gone before, that it turns everything on its head or makes no sense.

The thing is, we won't really know which of these interpretations is correct, until LAST JEDI and maybe beyond. We're going to have to wait and see how it plays out!

 

I just assume that it will be addressed, but you're right; We just don't know yet.

 

Very interesting discussion. The stronger argument is that Rey is a poorly conceived character. After-all, giving a bad character a backstory doesn't remedy the problem, she's still a bad character.

 

I don't think Rey is a poorly conceived character. I think TFA is a great film that tried not to draw attention to a lot of its ideas and it left a lot of its audience confused as to what was going on in several places.

 

There may be a case that the character is "poorly conceived." However, I've found that the majority of the arguments used to make that case depend on ignoring canonical information and "facts," from the movies themselves or otherwise. Maybe Last Jedi will add more context and point to one way or the other, but until that happens, I respectfully submit that the opposition has not demonstrated an argument that fits the "facts" as they stand right now.

 

As others have said, a lot of what goes on with Rey in TFA potentially makes sense and that's good enough for me at the moment. Whether it actually makes sense will be revealed in 8 and 9.

 

It could've been done differently to show a bit of a gradual curve. For example:

Rey is alone in the cell. She looks around the chair and inspects the restraints. She struggles against the hard metal locking her to the chair but it of course does nothing except make her grow more frustrated. Letting out shrill groans she angrily fights against the restraints. Rey is distracted as she notices various small objects levitating in the room. As her attention is drawn to them they fall to the floor. Slowly realising that it was her moving the objects [Kylo will have demonstrated this earlier during their meeting on Takodona, perhaps picking up her laser pistol] Rey focuses on the nearest one and tries to move it. It takes a while, eventually closing her eyes as Maz taught her and feeling the Force but the object lurches in the air until she lets it drop on the chair's console, freeing the restraints.

Rey then leaps out and quickly dismantles a railing - she half smiles as she notices the same construction techniques from the old Star Destroyers on Jakku. Taking a long piece of railing and holding it like her trusty staff she nervously approaches the door. She taps it with the piece of railing and then crouches in the corner. The door swishes open and an inquisitive Stormtrooper walks in. Rey waits then leaps up and expertly places her opponent in unconsciousness, as she had done so many times to protect her scavenged loot. Rey picks up the Stormtrooper's rifle and heads for the open door...

Levitating objects is less advanced than mind tricks and it could also have been a demonstrable skill she had seen before, thus making it more easily explained on screen. I wonder if that scene was changed at all when Daniel Craig popped in to say hello.

 

Levitating objects isn't only less advanced but its obviously has the benefit that its an ability you can show slowly advancing and indeed used less competently to some success, the mind trick either works or not doesn't and cannot be practiced much.

Personally I think if they wanted to push the idea of Rey's abilities being more present initially but somehow buried than typical Jedi they should have shown them more obviously as far back as Jakku. Have her using them in a more unconscious fashion, perhaps say theres a collapse inside the ruined SD and she reflects it away from her or maybe uses a force push on the goons to try and take BB-8?

Rey and Finn should IMHO have been fighting Kylo together at the end as well and either won less via a show of skill or merely escaped.

 

Since the movie came out I’ve gradually became less critical of Rey’s characterization and her rapid progression in the Force, especially after reading some well written posts from fans.

But regardless, the mind trick scene stills feels jarring every time I watch it. I know people have offered viable explanations that she could’ve caught that from probing into Kylo’s mind, but the movie never attempted to made that connection clear. I don't even know what is the purpose of this scene outside of being another artificial set-up for another joke or showing for the 5th or 6th time that Rey needs no one. At least have Maz Kanata or someone give a bit more explanation of how the Force works in this movie.

I’ve brought many virgins to watch TFA with me in an attempt to convert them to SW fandom, but every time the mind trick scene comes up I swear people always ask me what the f- is she doing. It was never explained, it comes out of the blue, and never feels like it’s organically inserted in the narrative of Rey’s character progression. It’s like if we were watching the characters in the Matrix suddenly knowing random new abilities without knowing that they can download it from the Matrix.

 

The specifics of Rey's abilities to me are actually much less of a weakness than a lack of drama around her force use. For me the film depends far too much on nostalgia here as well as the character simply being reactive to immediate threats, I never really get the sense that the force means much too far the way it did to Luke.

The biggest dramatic failing was I think again not introducing her abilities earlier, if the force is going to be this buried talent that she fears to use don't just hint at it right before she's captured build it into the character from the start.

 

There's an argument that Rey intuitively developed her Force abilities without training much like Drath Plagueis did at a young age. It doesn't really bother me. I can imagine that she was calling upon the memories of the lightsaber as she fought Ren, and besides, he was geared mored toward blast deflection than dueling. Rey had practice with her staff on Jakku. It's similar to how Kyle Katarn had fought with swords before and applied the same skill set to a lightsaber. Kyle was not some rank amateur who defeated another rank amateur when he fought Jerec, as we see with the Inquisitor and Kanan. Similarly, Rey had never fought a Force-wielder, but she was pretty dangerous with that staff. She knocked Finn down quickly. Also, the mind trick thing was classic to me. I can imagine that Rey was able to sense how Ren was using the Force against her, and I'd like to believe she had some prior training. But we shall find out soon!

 

It would be ridiculous for him to not have at least an adept grasp of melee combat. Especially when he has to handle something as potentially volatile as his own saber.

 

Seeing how he was in such bad shape in that duel, it's kind of amazing he was able to stand up, much less swing a saber at all.

 

My 2 cents regarding Rey and why there was such outcry and name-calling about her:

We want to feel the danger, we want to have our heroes on the verge of failing, only then to succeed.

For many, Rey kicking Kylo's ass on the first film, no matter if he was hurt previously or not, was not the best way to create this "gravitas" like Harrison Ford likes to say.

For me, I don't care, because this is exactly what I wanted. This is different from the OT script, and right now will give the possibility for a huge twist on TLJ.

 

I remember the arguments about Rey's use of a lightsaber in TFA. I remember saying how dangerous it would be for someone untrained to just start swinging a lightsaber around.

When I saw Rey get carried away in TLJ and accidentally chop off that rock formation, I remembered those arguments and laughed.

 

And the answer is out!

It's been revealed she's torrenting skills from Kylo and getting upgrades from the Force whenever convenient because she's been handpicked by the Cosmic Force/she's the Cosmic Force favorite godchild.

 

I don't see where the problem is. The Force is in balance now. We haven't seen that before.