Saga Rhymes and Patterns in the Saga

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth_Articulate, Oct 15, 2013.

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  1. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

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    Just a general fascination with the sheer volume of patterns that can be discerned. The mind's suggestibility is infinite! We'll never know how much of it was intentional and how much not. Very neat to think about
  2. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

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    Apr 13, 2011
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    Yeah, I agree. Well Lucas, has said that the movies rhyme, and are a "more complex clock than most people would like to imagine" but you are right, that could mean anything.
    Something I've took from it is that IMO Lucas looks as characters in a more symbolic way than focusing on the characters themselves as much. While some can argue it is a weak point of the prequels, it certainly makes for some interesting possibilities.
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  3. Samnz Jedi Grand Master

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    Let's not forget this is part of the "terrible writing" that these films are accused of so many times....

    You mean Dooku = Tyranus, don't you?
    At the end of the film it is revealed that Dooku is in fact Darth Tyranus, which also revealed the Sith's involvement in the Clone Army's creation.

    @HevyDevy is really an expert in these things. I can't add much, I just recently noticed that Anakin never ever says "I love you" in the films. Shmi says "I love you" to him, Padmé does and Obi-Wan also (literally, "I loved you"). Anakin doesn't. He screams "I hate you!".

    There are two other rhymes I remember from Lucas interview.
    1.) Palpatine first says that Anakin "will become more powerful than any Jedi". Later, Anakin swears to become "the most powerful Jedi ever". Lastly, Dooku proclaims he has become "more powerful than any Jedi" (by becoming a Sith). That - combined with Anakin and Dooku's unique lightsaber fight (Jedi and Sith colour show) - foreshadows Anakin's fall.
    In ROTS, Anakin eventually says "I have become more powerful than any Jedi has ever dreamt of." (again, by becoming Sith)
    2.) The first thing Padmé says after she awakes: "Obi-Wan, Is Anakin alright?". The first thing Vader says in the suit: "Where is Padmé? Is she safe? Is she alright?"
    Last edited by Samnz, Oct 28, 2013
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  4. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

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    I certainly agree that many of elements that were intentionally repetitive within the saga are ignorantly dismissed as lazy writing and I take issue with those criticisms heavily. However, I do feel like the writing was generally unskilled on other grounds, namely the "explain instead of show or suggest" way of giving the audience information. For example, the whole "Anakin striving to have the most power" element mentioned above was almost exclusively conveyed through the characters literally repeating variations of that phrase. As David Mamet says (not about Star Wars, but in general), if you have to explain it, the audience may understand, but they won't care. It's the same reason the Ruminations scene in ROTS was so powerful. The information you are being given is suggestive, not literal. I don't blame Lucas as a writer for falling short in this way. It's a tough writing task, and he himself admits it's not his strength.
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  5. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

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    I've actually forgotten the description of how that plotline was resolved in EU. Some people seem to say Dooku ordered the clones, or Sifo-Dayas did, then was betrayed by Dooku who stole the army for the Sith. That is what I was getting at, but Dooku=Tyrannus makes more sense as an AOTC revelation ;)


    Yes, and this also of course contrasts the happy resolution of the OT romance. ESB- Leia: I love you. Han: I know... ROTJ- Han: I love you. Leia: I know.
    Plus Han being willing to step aside and let Luke be with Leia (before finding out they are siblings) is a clear inversion of the destructive triangle between Anakin/Padme/Obi-Wan. Of course, the final cut of ROTS makes this triangle mostly all in Anakin's head.
    Shmi also says "I love you" to Anakin in TPM and tries to as her last words in AOTC. And when Padme declares her love in AOTC, Anakin replies "You love me? I thought we had decided not to fall in love."

    Something that Vader will echo to Luke more than once in the OT. The irony of course that the Emperor is overthrown because of love.


    This is a great one. I think it re-enforces the symbiotic link they have that can be overlooked by the casual viewer. As Padme fades so does the good in Anakin, and vice versa.


    While I partially agree with you on some of the writing in general (particularly in AOTC), I think if you look for it, hints of his power are there. Maybe Lucas should have done more to show it, like you say, but there are several moments I find prove Anakin's potential.
    Off the top of my head...
    His dreams always come true, something that mirrors Yoda and Qui-Gon's (and later Luke's) prophetic power. He seems strongly connected to the will of the force, such as winning the podrace from a stalled start, and accidentally winning the TPM space/ground battle at Naboo. The speeder chase scene in AOTC; he predicts where Zam's speeder is going to be from stories up and freefalls to it. His darker deeds don't seem to be met with great resistance, such as the Tusken massacre, killing potentially hundreds of Jedi, and the Seperatist slaughter (lol I sound like I'm advertising the darkside :p). In the OT, his claravoyance is impressive, such as sensing Obi-Wan on the deathstar, his confidence on the Rebel base location in ESB, sensing Luke's presence in ROTJ. Even in his diminished state he overpowers Luke easily in ESB, and Luke only truely surpasses him in ROTJ when Luke taps in to the darkside. I dunno, I guess I just think the dialogue matches a lot of what we are shown.
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  6. Iron_lord Force Ghost

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    In books like The Essential Guide to Warfare, and The Essential Atlas, they went with "Sifo-Dyas hired the Kaminoans" (with him being subsequently murdered) and Dooku and Sidious handling the rest, beginning with hiring Jango, then continuing with secretly funnelling credits from the Republic budget into the army and its equipment. Going by Darth Plagueis, some of that money may have come from Plagueis's own accounts as well.
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Oct 30, 2013
  7. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

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    Can't believe I forgot this one:

    Add to Odds and Evens: Every even-numbered episode features a seedy hangout establishment filled with sketchy characters. Every odd-numbered episode does not.
  8. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    I think that makes more sense; after all, it addresses the question of why the missing money wasn't noticed by the Republic.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Oct 31, 2013
  9. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

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    Apr 13, 2011
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    A couple of quick mentor contrasts...

    At the end of one trilogy, a wise Sith (Sidious) starts Anakin on the wrong path. At the start of the next trilogy a wise Jedi (Kenobi) starts Luke on the right path. Anakin will end up subserviant to Sidious ("You're fulfilling your destiny Anakin.") where Obi-Wan lets go of Luke and encourages him to find his own path ("Your destiny lies along a different path from mine.") A possible irony is Obi-Wan's comment to Luke: "You're lucky to be all in one piece." Unlike Anakin, Obi-Wan gets it right with Luke.

    Adding to the TPM/ROTS Master comparison, Qui-Gon frees Anakin from slavery, Sidious enslaves Anakin for life.
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  10. Darth Raiden Jedi Grand Master

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    Aug 28, 2013
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    Here one I thought about while at work, in ROTS we see Anakin shed one tear after doing commiting horrific acts (killing the jedi and sepratists) losing his humanity for his own selfish endeavors. Then in ROTJ we see Anakin shed a tear again this time after doing a heroic act (saving his son and stopping the evil) as he restores his humanity and the good person he was... Take it what you will :D :D :D :D :D
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  11. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

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    unmasked ROTJ Anakin shed a tear? or is this an implied tear while he was masked?
    Last edited by Darth_Articulate, Nov 2, 2013
  12. Cryogenic Force Ghost

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    Jul 20, 2005
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    Another way to look at it is...

    Star Wars -- mythic substrate / repository AND living language -- as a kind of mirror or yardstick for our own time.

    For instance, all six movies are preceded by a particular logo: "20th Century Fox". And both the the Star Wars logo and the music are deliberate progressions from this logo and its triumphant herald.

    Similarly, Lucas released Episode I, the "beginning" of a new trilogy and the whole saga, at the lip of a brand new millennium - the close of the eponymous "20th Century" -- while Episodes II and III (and, indeed, the sequel trilogy) are *inside* that new millennium, marking a new frontier of human consciousness.

    The films similarly seem to concede, in their exquisite, intertwined narratives, from the most provincial of details to the most global, that "timing is everything". Indeed, the advancement of film imagery -- moving, almost living, imagery -- is inherently dependent on this notional construct of time. Time is the great mediator: the wheel on which everything turns; the means by which we able to perceive wheels and turning to begin with. All our language is built around it (go back and read the former sentence again).

    I think Lucas has a pretty deep fascination with time and place. For the latter is really a function of the former. Time allows everything to "go". And time is the great unsolved -- perhaps, unsolvable -- paradox at the heart of corporeal existence.
  13. Darth Raiden Jedi Grand Master

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    Aug 28, 2013
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    Hey Darth Articulate, many apologies for replying at this time, to your question i was very certain anakin did shed a tear during the unmask scene (I thought so everytime I watched) I just checked it again and it might have been implied rather than actual :(... Either way its still tragic.
  14. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

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    I think that's just a testament to the emotional power of that scene that you have a memory of a tear that wasn't actually there :)
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  15. Darth Raiden Jedi Grand Master

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    Aug 28, 2013
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    Yeah definitely it is one of my all time favourite scene in the saga. Just so much emotion and messages conveyed in that scene, loved it as a kid the first time I watched and it got more and more stronger by the time the saga (at the time) was completed :)
    Last edited by Darth Raiden, Nov 4, 2013
  16. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

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  17. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

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    Um my phone ran outta battery after I accidentally hit post. Anyway...

    The Phantom Menace and A New Hope:

    - Anakin is an uncompromised good in TPM. In ANH Vader is an uncompromised evil.

    - The Republic and the Jedi are the dominant side in TPM. The Empire and the Sith are the dominant side in ANH. Qui-Gon intimidates the TF and cuts through a door in an attempt to confront the TF. The Empire (and Vader) cuts through the Tantive door and confronts the Rebels.

    - The Jedi are revealed by taking off their hoods. Obi-Wan repeats this in ANH. (And in ROTS Sidious puts his hood on before declaring the Jedi enemies of the Republic).

    - Leaving (for Tatooine) the main characters face the TF blockade, which damages their hyperdrive. In ANH leaving Tatooine the main characters face the Star Destroyers before jumping to hyperspace.

    - Qui-Gon dies but retains his identity and watches over Anakin (Obi-Wan: "Nooo!"). Obi-Wan dies yet retains his identity and watches over Luke (Luke: No!"). Also, Qui-Gon fulfills the PT role of introducing the Jedi and the force, where Obi-Wan will in the OT.

    - There is a gap between the start of the film and the main characters meeting Anakin. There is a gap between the start of the film and the introduction of Luke, when the droids come to him. Anakin must leave his mother to begin his journey. Luke's foster parents are killed which leads to him taking his father's path. And Anakin builds 3PO who meets R2-D2, where Luke receiving the droids starts his journey.

    - *Door slams* "Now Viceory, we will discuss a new treaty.
    "And now princess we will discuss the location of your hidden Rebel base," *Door slams*
    The "Rebels" move from the bad guys to the good guys.

    - Shmi: "This path has been placed before you. The choice is yours alone." Leia: "He has to follow his own path, no one can choose it for him."

    - Palpatine uses Amildala's status to gain power in the Senate. In ANH The Emperor disolves the Senate when it becomes unnecessary.

    - Anakin is guided by the force to destroy the droid-control ship. Luke uses the force to destroy the deathstar.

    - Both movies conclude with a celebration, both seemingly a (stand-alone) victory, that will actually be affected by the next films.

    There are plenty more, just have to come to me...
  18. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

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    Apr 13, 2011
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    I've got some more stuff on Tpm/Anh I will post when I get a chance to finish watching them back to back tonight.

    Some random ones...

    -Obi-wan's mentoring of Anakin in Aotc contrasts both Luke's training in the OT and Qui-gon and Sidious' teachings. It seems implied that Obi-Wan wasn't the right Master for Anakin. For example Qui-gon states Obi-wan is ready for the trials, the opposite of Obi-wans assertions with Anakin in the next two films. Another quick example, Obi to Anakin: "Patience. Use the force. Think." contradicts Qui-gon: "Feel, don't think. Trust your instincts."

    - To expand on a previous post where I stated Sidious inversely to ANH Obi-wan and Qui-gon claims Anakin is "fulfilling his destiny" vs "your destiny lies along a different path than mine"...
    Qui-gon: "The force is unusually strong with him, that much is certain" / Sidious: "The force is strooong with you."
    Sidious: "I need your help son."/ Obi-wan: "I need your help."
    Sidious: "Of course you should, but you're not entirely sure of their intentions." / Obi-Wan: "You must do what you think is right of course."
    Sidious: "Learn to use the dark side of the force." / Obi-wan: "Learn about the force Luke."

    - Yoda has grown and become less rigid between trilogies, after the Jedi purge. A quick example, this exchange - "An apprentice you already have Qui-gon. Impossible to take on a second." "The code forbids it." is backwards from ESB. Here it is Luke who claims "You want the impossible." which shortly leads to "That is why you fail."

    Lastly, farewell talks. In TPM Obi-wan apologises to Qui-gon, and it is the last time they have a one on one before facing Maul. "You've been a good apprentice Obi-wan. And you are a much wiser man than I am. I forsee you will become a great Jedi Knight. In Rots Anakin apologises to Obi-wan. It is the last time they speak before facing each other as enemies. "You are strong and wise Anakin, and I am very proud of you. I have trained you since you were a small boy. I have taught you everything I know. And you have become a far greater Jedi than I could ever hope to be." Finally, in ESB Luke and Han say farewell on Hoth (in few words). In reverse of Rots next time they meet Luke is practically a Jedi and rescuing Han.
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  19. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

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    TPM and ANH:

    - Silver protocal droids in the opening scenes. The first dialogue spoken after the Jedi arrive is from a protocal droid / Threepio has the first line in ANH.

    - The Jedi are the agressors. "The ambassadors are Jedi Knights, I believe." / The Sith are the agressors. "If this is a consular ship, where is the ambassador?"

    - Some Senate-related parallels in the early scenes:
    * "Beware Viceroy. The Federation has gone too far this time." "We would never do anything without the approval of the Senate. You assume to much." "We will see." "She's right. The Senate will never..." / "The Imperial Senate will not sit for this, when they hear you've attacked a diplomatic..." "Don't act so surprised your highness. Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies."
    * The TF are ordered by Sidious to kill the Jedi and their pilots/ Vader: "Inform the Senate that all aboard were killed."
    * "Is that legal?" "I will make it legal." / " "Holding here is dangerous"..."There will be no one to stop us this time."

    - Fake distress hologram (Sio Bibble) / Real distress hologram (Leia).

    - Queen Amidala is rescued by the Jedi. + The main characters are hiding from the TF. + "My feelings tell me they will destroy you."/ Princess Leia is rescued by the main characters. + The main characters hide from the Empire. + "Terminate her. Immediately!"

    - Qui-Gon uses a calming technique on Jar Jar. / Obi-Wan heals Luke.

    - Now, now your highness. In time the suffering of your people will persuade you to see our point of view." / "Perhaps she would respond to an alternate form of persuasion." Of course, the suffering of Padme's/Leia's home planet is the persuasive technique in both films.

    - Qui-Gon: "Land near the outskirts. We don't want to attract any attention." / Obi-Wan: "What brings you out this far?"

    - Over the course of the saga R2 and 3PO are owned by all four Skywalkers. R2 is Padme's in TPM, 3PO is Anakin's. They have "swapped" them by ROTS. In ANH 3PO and R2 belong to Leia at the start, and of course make their journey to Luke's ownership when his adventure starts.

    - Qui-Gon: "Greed can be a powerful ally." / Han is a smuggler turned Rebel, initially because Obi-Wan entices him with money.


    - A commoner's take on the force; Jar Jar: "Oh, maxi big da force. Well that smells stinkowiff." Obi-Wan looks a bit offended here, where he just laughs at Han Solo's "Kid I've flown from one side of the galaxy to the other, seen a lot of strange stuff. But I've never seen anything to make think there is one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."


    - Qui-Gon tells a lie to Anakin... "Checking your blood for infections." / Obi-Wan lies to Luke... "He betrayed and murdered your father."

    - The last time Anakin and Qui-Gon speak mirrors the last time Luke and Obi-Wan speak....
    TPM: "Hey, wait for me! "Annie, you stay there. Stay right where you are." "But I..." "Stay in that cockpit."
    ANH: "I want to go with you." "Be patient, Luke. Stay and watch over the droids." "But he can..." "They must be delivered safely or other star systems will suffer the same fate as Alderaan. Your destiny lies along a different path than mine."

    - Maul/Luke use electric binoculars, turning in exactly the same arc as they survey Tatooine.

    - Sebulba threatens Anakin / Luke is threatened in the cantina.

    - Qui-Gon: "Feel, don't think. Trust your instincts." / Obi-Wan: "Stretch out with your feelings!"

    - A neat touch before the podrace; Many flags represents the diversity of the galaxy before the Empire.

    - Anakin sells the podracer when he leaves Tatooine. Luke sells his speeder when he leaves the same planet.

    - Anakin scuffles with Greedo, Han kills Greedo when confronted by him.

    - Palpatine: "There is a question of procedure, but I'm confident we can overcome it." In ANH Palpatine fittingly disbands the Senate. There is also a possible irony in Obi-Wan's comment "A more civilised age" where in TPM Palpatine states already "There is no civility, only politics. The Republic is not what it once was."

    - "The Sith have been extinct for a millenium." "I do not believe the Sith could have returned without us knowing." "Ah, hard to see the darkside is." / "Obi-Wan Kenobi? ... Surely he must be dead by now. " Do not underestimate the force." "The Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe. You my friend are all that's left of their religion."

    - "Is the planet secure?" / "You're sure the homing beacon is secure aboard their ship?"

    - The main characters leave a corrupt central (Coruscant/ The Deathstar) for a lush green setting (Naboo/ Yavin 4) where the final battle of the film will take place.

    - Padme uses R2's plans for Theed Palace to plan the attack, Leia uses him for the Deathstar attack.

    - "Impossible. Nothing can get through our shield!" / "Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances!"
  20. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

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    These are absolutely astounding, @HevyDevy!! So much I've never thought about before
    I think we can expand upon this: In both movies, the heroes have to come up with a payment plan to someone who's primary interest is money in order to get passage off of Tatooine. When they finally obtain passage, both meet resistance immediately before take-off and narrowly escape the planet.
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  21. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 5, 2012
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    The confrontations that defined both trilogies were not decided by power at all.
    Vader overpowered Obi-Wan in Revenge of the Sith, but Obi-Wan used surprised to his advantage and outsmarted him to defeat him.
    The Emperor was one of the most powerful beings in the universe by the time of Return of the Jedi, but Vader also caught him off-guard (despite being in a weakened state) and destroyed him.
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  22. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

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    And also, it wasn't Luke's overpowering of Vader that changed him, but Luke's refusal to kill him (to exert power).
    Last edited by Darth_Articulate, Nov 7, 2013
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  23. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

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    Attack of the Clones:

    These are not just rhymes, but some takes on hidden meaning and such...

    - The film is the only one to pan up at the start. This is particularly noticeable when watching TPM then AOTC; things have been turned on their head since the last episode.

    - Sio Bibble: "Your negotiations seem to have failed ambassador." "The negotiations never took place."
    Palpatine (AOTC): "My negotiations will not fail." and in TPM "The negotiations haven't started because the ambassadors aren't there? How can that be true? I have assurances from the Chancellor, his ambassadors did arrive." In both cases Palpatine is lying.

    - "I will not let this Republic, which has stood for a thousand years be split in two." A pov truth, as the galaxy will be united under an Empire.

    - Mace comments that to assassinate someone is not in a Jedi's character; in the next film he is accused of doing just that.

    - Palpatine's suggestion to put Obi and Ani with Padme could be manipulation to get Anakin vulnerable to his attachments. Anakin's first assignment is to protect Padme, ironically what he is trying to do when he turns.

    - Anakin and Obi-Wan are introduced on an elevator to Padme's appartment, in the next film they go up an elevator to a spire where Anakin kills Dooku, in ROTJ Luke and Vader take an elevator to the top of a spire for a similar test (killing Vader).

    - Foreboding... Anakin stating "why?", when asked to follow Obi's lead, mislead the audience that he is questioning Obi-Wan's authority when he actually means why they shouldn't investigate.

    - Double meaning... "I'd much rather dream about Padme" of course is exactly what Anakin doesn't want in ROTS.
    Another; "I don't like sand." before immolation on sand in the next film.

    - Obi-Wan (about Anakin's feelings for Padme): "Be mindful of your thoughts, they betray you." / (ROTJ) Vader: Your thoughts betray you. Your feelings for them are strong. Especially for... sister! So, you have a twin sister! Your feelings have now betrayed her too. Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me. Now his failure is complete."

    - A dug (is it Sebulba?) in the AOTC chase scene: "Jedi poodoo!" / TPM - Sebulba: "Poodoo!"

    - Anakin skydives to Zam's speeder, Luke jumps to possible death when refusing to join Vader.

    - Obi-Wan: "Patience. Use the force. Think." (contrasts both)... Qui-Gon: "Feel don't think. Trust your instincts." Palpatine: "Soon you will learn to trust your feelings. Then you will be invincible."

    - A possible metaphor in "This weapon is your life!" where saber drops/destructions/losses can be symbolic of the characters' situation. Luke loses Anakin's saber and his belief in his father when he finds out Vader is his father. Anakin loses several sabers in AOTC, and states a double-meaning - "Obi-Wan is gonna kill me." Obi-Wan and Anakin both lose to Dooku with the same lightsaber, etc.

    - Obi-Wan dismembers someone at a bar (AOTC/ANH).

    - Anakin (TPM): "Cha skrundee da pat, sleemo." (Don't count on it, slime-ball.)
    Zam (AOTC): "Sleemo!"

    - Obi-Wan is always caught in the middle with Qui-Gon (master) and Anakin (apprentice). He loses both of them to the Sith both physically for Qui-Gon and metaphorically for Anakin.

    - In TPM the characters journey from Naboo to Tatooine to Coruscant. In AOTC it is Coruscant to Naboo to Tatooine.

    - Power comments... "I see you becoming greatest of all Jedi. Even more powerful than Master Yoda." "I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!" "I've become more powerful than any Jedi. Even you." ROTS: "I am becoming more powerful than any Jedi has ever dreamed. And I'm doing it for you. To protect you."

    - Mace believes in the prophecy in AOTC, something he is starting to doubt in ROTS.

    - Shroud of the darkside: Mace: "This disturbance in the force is making it hard to get a sense of things."
    Yoda: "Impossible to see, the future is." (also parallels "Always in motion is the future.")
    "Blind we are, if creation of this army we could not see." "I think it is time we informed the Senate that our ability to use the force has diminished." "Only the dark Lord of the Sith knows of our weakness."
    There is an irony here that Yoda states that they would obtain more enemies if the Senate is informed, where Sidious is the Sith. And at the end of the movie they are blind to the fact that Dooku was telling the truth. "The dark side of the force has clouded their vision, my friend."

    - Padme: "If the Senate votes to create an army, I'm sure it's going to push us into a civil war." / "If they are not all destroyed, it will be civil war without end."

    - The Imperial Courts try Gunray, but like Palpatine the corruption in the Republic works to his advantage. Gunray is also happy that (under Seperatist law) Amidala will be executed. And of course in ROTS, Vader executes Gunray and the other Seperatists, leaving Gunray until last for revenge.(As a side note, both Padme and Leia escape execution in AOTC and ANH).

    - Kamino (a water based planet) expects Obi-Wan. / Bespin (a gas based planet) expects Luke.

    - In a deleted scene Padme refuses to join Dooku's "rebellion". In the next film she helps start her own.

    - Interrupted first kisses (AOTC/ESB).

    - Lots of foreboding in the fireplace scene.
    Padme's dress appears to be choking her.
    Fire reminds us of the Tusken camp hut where Shmi dies, Jedi cremations and Vader's immolation.
    Anakin: "I can't breathe."
    Anakin (to Padme in AOTC, to Sidious in ROTS): "I will do whatever you ask."
    "It's just not possible." (AOTC) / "You want the impossible" (ESB).
    "Then you do feel something!" (AOTC) / "Cmon. You want me to stay because of the way you feel about me." (ESB)
    "Could you live like that?" "No. It would destroy us."
    Plus Anakin's robot hand at his wedding has dark implications.

    I will continue this tommorow.
    Last edited by HevyDevy, Nov 8, 2013
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  24. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

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    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    Attack of the clones (2):

    - Jango Fett and Boba Fett:
    Quite a lot of mirrors here.
    (AOTC) "There are no bounty hunters out here, the Geonosians don't trust them." / (ESB) "Bounty hunters. We don't need that scum."
    Obi-Wan tracks Jango and Boba / Boba tracks Han.
    Boba learns the power-down and hide trick from Obi-Wan doing it to Jango years before. Spare part ejection is used by the good guys to escape - Han floats away with the garbage (but is still seen by Boba) where Obi-Wan had ejected his spare parts canister to escape from Jango's missile and thus continued to track them.
    Also asteroids - "You're not actually going into an asteroid field?" "They'd be crazy to follow us, wouldn't they?" / "He doesn't seem to take a hint, this guy."
    Jango is hired by Dooku / Boba is hired by Vader.
    Mace kills Jango after cutting his gun in half / Luke cuts Boba's gun in half before Han accidentally kills him. Also, Jango uses a wire on Obi-Wan fighting him / Boba uses a wire on Luke.

    - "Who? Who is gonna make them? You?" "Of course not me... someone wise." / "You have great wisdom, Anakin." Besides the fact Sidious is just blowing smoke up Anakin's ass, there is an irony that Vader is indeed the person who will be imposing his will on the galaxy.

    - Identical shot of Palpatine and Anakin in Palpatine's office (AOTC - "Even more powerful than master Yoda." / ROTS - "They need you Anakin. More than you know."

    - Jedi tend to keep their promises in Star Wars. Palpatine, however, falsely promises "an immediate return to democracy". Some examples...
    Qui-Gon: "Anakin will be a Jedi, I promise you." Obi-Wan: "You will be a Jedi. I promise."
    Anakin: "We will find out who is trying to kill you Padme. I promise you."
    Luke: "And I will return. I promise."
    One promise however, fails despite Anakin's best efforts to fulfill it; "I wasn't strong enough to save you mom. But I promise, I won't fail again." and "I'm not going to die in childbirth Anakin. I promise you." "No I promise you." The irony of course being that Anakin turning in an attempt to keep this promise symbolically kills Padme.

    - Obi-Wan absorbs a laser bolt with his hand during his fight with Jango (AOTC) / Vader absorbs Han's laser shot when he surprises them on Bespin. (ESB)

    - (AOTC) Anakin has visions of Shmi in pain. "I have to help her." / (ESB) Luke has a vision of his friends in pain. "They're my friends and I gotta help them!" In both instances Anakin and Luke fail, in Luke's case he ends up being rescued by Leia instead.

    - There is a small inversion in Watto's character in TPM and AOTC. In TPM he is clearly dominant and intimidating to Anakin. When they meet ten years later, Anakin has become intimidating to him.

    - The Jedi become the Seperatists. "What you are proposing could be construed as treason" / "It's treason then."

    - AOTC-ROTS/ESB-ROTJ: Anakin and Luke are dismembered by the men they will be egged on by Sidious to kill in the next film. The most noticeable inversion in the two Skywalker's paths is Anakin killing Dooku and Luke sparing Vader. Also, Dooku who planned to betray the Seperatists discovers that he is just a pawn like them. And Vader will see he has switched roles in ROTJ, but perhaps he was already expecting the Emperor's betrayal by then.

    - AOTC/ESB: "Your mother is dead son. Accept it." Anakin knows better both here and in ESB; "No captain. They're alive!"

    - A kind of morbid one between AOTC and ROTS... A symbol of death brought to the Lars homestead; Shmi's corpse wrapped in black/ A symbol of life brought there in the next film; baby Luke wrapped in white.

    - AOTC/ANH: Conversations at the Lars dinner table. Red drinks/Blue drinks. Anakin (black clothing, 19 yo) / Luke (white clothing, 19 yo) sits in the same chair. They are asked the same question when they get up - "Where are you going? (by Owen/Beru). "To find my mother." / "Looks like I'm going nowhere."

    - AOTC/ESB: Obi-Wan: "I will never join you, Dooku." / Luke: "I'll never join you!"

    - Obi-Wan's absence from Anakin at key points is a re-ocurring theme. In AOTC he notices Anakin's tracking signal coming from Tattoine, where Anakin is taking revenge on the Tuskens. "What in the blazes is he doing there?" ... "I do hope nothing has happened to him." In ROTS Kenobi is unconscious when Anakin kills Dooku, and on Utapau when Anakin turns.

    - AOTC/ROTJ: Mace: "We will not be hostages to be bartered Dooku." / Han: "You tell the slimy piece of no good worm ridden filth he'll get no such pleasure from us, right?"
    Also there are some parallels in the Rancor and the Genosian arena creatures, like Anakin and Obi-Wan looking scared / Luke looking scared, and the Geonosians cheering at their fellow Geonosian's deaths / the Gammoreans (spl?) cheering at the Rancor eating a terrified Gammorean.

    This post is getting long, so I guess I'll continue later.
    Darth_Articulate and Seagoat like this.
  25. -Jedi Joe- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2013
    star 1
    I had to look that one up and yep, it's true.



    Mind blown! It's like a creepy hidden message GL and John Williams hid in there!
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