ST Rian Johnson Responds to Fan Backlash...

Nice point jaqen, I'm agreeing with a fair bit of what you have said over last day and the example you made. I think it can be expanded though to include people who get the greater themes but reject them in this instance. Thats because TLJ doesn't have a serious none fictional event behind it.

I get everything Satipo is saying he see's in the movie and his view of the story telling. But I outright reject the enjoyment of it. If RJ made his own movie and used his own creations that didn't have legacy maybe I would have enjoyed his story in its context. Generaly I prefer dark themed movies. Not this one.

Its also kind of an answer to everyone who needed multiple viewings of the movie as they had missed things. Many people got what they missed on the first viewing, it wasn't missed but it also wasn't accepted and more viewings won't change it.

 

Dude your house is on fire.

 

I didn't say otherwise. If someone tells someone else their view is wrong, that's absolutely and rather ironically, wrong. If someone tells someone that they interpreted something differently, or something resonated differently, they are not inherently wrong. Of course if you come out of the film saying "Man I'm so glad I got to see Luke kill Snoke!" that's a bit different..

 

If the bottom line was the only priority I think you'd have had a much different Episode VIII.

 

I think Snoke should have been fleshed out more. The same ending is fine, but when you see things like the new databank entry:

That tells you Snoke turned the child of two of the OT3 heroes, right under their noses. The order of these sentences also suggests Snoke started in on Ben before Luke ever got around to teaching him. Why should you have to read a website to give a film better context?

How early and how pervasive his influence was could have been addressed, and why Luke, Leia and Han failed to notice and/or were powerless to stop it. There's no greater understanding, after two films, as to why the Skywalker family just sucks at avoiding the dark side and protecting their loved ones from it and evil predators who wield it. And Ben being a bad seed won't cut it.

 

Top of the list - and this applies to people praising the film for it as much as it’s critics - anyone who thinks the film agrees with the idea of killing the past and is shredding everything in the previous 7 films has missed what the film is actually saying.


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I actually agree with you here. If Disney was setting out to make a safe, sure-fire, money-making crowd-pleaser, they couldn't have done a poorer job of it. I think we can all agree this film is NOT a crowd-pleaser, and I think that's why many of y'all like it so much.

If Disney wanted the best word of mouth possible for new fans and repeat viewings, Luke would have kicked the crap out of the KoR single-handedly, defeated Kylo Ren but allowed him to live out of mercy, and been revealed as Rey's father. That movie does more than $625 million. Bet that.

 

Can someone enlighten me in a sentence or two what is TLJ about and why is that a great story?

 

Yes. This was my badly articulated point.


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I'm far more interested in the perspectives of people who get the themes and then reject them. I wish this convo could go more into that direction. I does quickly get tiring arguing the minutia. Because, contrary to popular belief, many of us who appreciate the film didn't get everything we wanted, in plot/character developments.

Reminds me of my brother. He loathed the film. While acknowledging that it was a good film. He just rejects it as a Star Wars film.

 

Interesting. The only way I can see this film keeping with the theme of the previous seven is if the triumph of the Jedi over the Sith, of love over hate, of the light over the dark, at the end of ROTJ was always going to be a temporary illusion; that we are doomed to repeat our mistakes over and over again. Because that's what we've done so far in TFA and TLJ.

I take great exception to that, because GL stated many times -- both when there were three films and later when there were six -- that the dominant theme of SW was the next generation not being doomed to repeat the mistakes made by the one before. I don't see how TLJ could go against that idea more if it tried, because Luke is basically a composite of Anakin and Obi-Wan who at the end of the day isn't any better than either of them and most depressingly, doesn't learn anything from either of them.

 

@Satipo what exactly are people misreading? People will believe and feel about this film just as passionately as you feel and believe about it regardless what end of the spectrum you fall on. Simple. No one is an authority over this film or any other, but we can each have our perspectives and feelings about it which vary just as much as our schemas are different from one another.

Also, everyone's entry point in terms of knowledge of film and themes, will be different as well.

 

Let’s start by you doing the same thing for Empire and then I’ll deliver an equivalent.