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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Rian Johnson to write and direct Episode VIII (and also new SW Trilogy - see page 194)

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Momotaros, Jun 20, 2014.

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  1. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    That's... that's magnificent! [face_rofl]
     
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  2. Vicarious Fan

    Vicarious Fan Jedi Master star 3

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    Jul 1, 2013
    and that's why we don't look at youtube comments
     
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  3. Nate787

    Nate787 Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 29, 2016
    Youtube, the cesspool of humanity.
     
  4. Pete Ren

    Pete Ren Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Sorry you think that. I’m just so disappointed with his movie. I feel totally empty towards it and the saga in general. It’s not a nice feeling.

    Many others dislike it too and in token of that, I do think there has been more explaining than you’d normally expect. You may know better.

    If RJ used books to justify Force projection and Gordon-Levitt writes an essay in defence of the movie, you can’t help thinking that the message of discontent has been heard. It’s quite surprising if everything is good.

    So I think there has been a bit of justification going on.
     
  5. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 10, 2005
    It can also be Rian perhaps knowing the outcome of episode 9 and having no choice but to take the flack, neglecting any answer that can spoil the conclusion of the trilogy (if indeed it turns out being 3 films)
     
  6. Nate787

    Nate787 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Well, there hasn't. When someone asks him a question, he answers it. Simple as that. The only thing he's guilty of is being over accommodating to those who don't deserve it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
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  7. Pete Ren

    Pete Ren Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Dec 27, 2017
    No online review forum is accurate IMO.

    But you say only 30% of fans are unhappy? That’s more or less a third of fans if your estimate is right. It’s a really worrying amount.

    TLJ was always going to make a stack of cash because many non fans go to see a movie to just pass a couple of hours, with little affection for what they are seeing. That earnings figure was reliant on more than fans going to see it, I reckon. Say it’s a Star Wars movie and watch the cash flood in!

    I’ve looked at quite a few IMDB reviews and am surprised TLJ gets 7.5. The reviews are nearly all 1/10 and read just as negatively as they do in RT.

    I think the reality is that a lot people just haven’t warmed to TLJ, like they have other episodes of the saga.

    I just hope that Ep9 is friendly to all fans and tells a great story rather than subverting one.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
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  8. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Force Ghost star 5

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    May 25, 2014
    So the "Everyone who dislikes TLJ is stupid" argument is back?
     
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  9. Pete Ren

    Pete Ren Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Dec 27, 2017
    Maybe that’s all it is. You maybe right and I’m not saying I’m right here, but as there is negativity, it seems to me that there has been some attempts to assuage it.

    Must admit I did wonder if this trilogy may become a quadrilogy, or even bigger than that!!! Oh if only... and it was seen as good by all!
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  10. Pete Ren

    Pete Ren Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Dec 27, 2017
    Hasn’t been justification? Really? Let’s just leave it there :)
     
  11. Nate787

    Nate787 Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 29, 2016
    No. But I think it's a bit unfair for people to ask him questions, then when he's gracious enough to answer, he gets accused of "justifying" or "explaining" as if he's making excuses for what he did.

    That being said, if you have that many questions, maybe it's time to recognize your own lack of understanding?

    Leave it wherever you like. I'm still waiting on an answer for how exactly he's supposed to handle questions without it being spun as "justification"
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
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  12. Starkiller17

    Starkiller17 Jedi Master star 2

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    Jul 6, 2010
    I don't think that's what he's saying. The way some people have treated RJ on Twitter for example is simply disgusting.

    I'm impressed with how calm and professional RJ has been with regards to answering questions.
     
  13. MrElculver2424

    MrElculver2424 Jedi Master star 4

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    May 11, 2014
    I just remember the fact that TLJ started out as much higher than 7.5 on IMDb. I don't remember exactly, but pretty sure it was around 8.5 the few days leading up to release and right after release. I remember I kept checking it. And every couple hours it went down... 8.4, 8.3, 8.1, 7.9, 7.6...stayed at 7.6 for a while and then ultimately dropped another rung to 7.5. The dislike from the fans was immediate and recognizable.
     
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  14. MotherNature's SilverSeed

    MotherNature's SilverSeed Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 4, 2013
    I kind of agree.

    I wish he would let the art speak for itself. All the answers are in the movie. Let the masses and media and journalists and academists and essayists and op-ed-ists and youtubists pick it apart and establish prevailing interpretations and theories. You created a thing, and you're finished. By even acknowledging the requests for clarification or these ridiculous demands that you justify creative choices, you kind of detract from the mysterious nature and otherworldly mystique of the story.
     
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  15. Nate787

    Nate787 Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 29, 2016
    I think he's been pretty good with not giving too much away in that regard though. Here's an example from a Q&A session that I liked:

    http://geekyreporter.com/2018/02/03...ylos-final-and-emotional-the-last-jedi-scene/

    "When a fan had asked about Kylo’s emotions when he saw the Millennium Falcon fly off as he held Han Solo’s dice, Johnson had joked, “That is such a great question. Will you be mad if I said that it’s such a great question, I don’t want to answer it?”

    “Only because I think that’s such a beautiful notion of ‘what does he regret at that moment,’ it’s the same way I think about in Revenge of the Sith, that mask is coming down, that beautiful shot of Anakin’s eyes right before it goes over and you see that glimpse of… Is it fear? Is it regret? What is it? What is going through his mind at that moment?” the filmmaker elaborated. “That’s that kind of moment for Ben, and I don’t want to put that moment in your guys’ head. I feel like that’s a moment that everyone should read into themselves. But just posing that question is really beautiful.”
     
  16. Nipuhanipera

    Nipuhanipera Force Ghost star 5

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    May 25, 2014
    What about bots and trolls?
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
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  17. ComfortablyNunb

    ComfortablyNunb Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Anonymous online ratings are useless, whether high or low. The whole Black Panther hate campaign further underscored that fact. Even more ridiculous is the idea that a low RT/Metacritic/IMDB user score is "proof" of a bad movie. Uh, what? First of all, film is subjective. Secondly, if I'm going to listen to an opinion other than my own, why would I trust a random schmuck off the street over a seasoned critic who knows a lot more about film?

    Anyway, I'm incredibly excited for Rian's new trilogy and applaud Lucasfilm for sticking by their artistic guns (knock on wood). Despite Disney's understandable reputation as a heartless mega-corporation, they're letting Lucasfilm make decisions based on quality. I remember Kathleen Kennedy saying that the best financial strategy is to bet on quality (i.e. don't make knee-jerk decisions based on box office). So far, they seem to be heeding that credo. Rian got a trilogy even before TLJ was released. No one asked for a Solo spinoff but apparently the script was great so she green-lit it.

    Let's be thankful this isn't a WB/DCEU situation where executives make huge decisions based on year-end bonuses and focus group testing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  18. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Small, but Lethal star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I am pretty sure that they did not send Ep8 into a R1 like post production (including a possible delay) because they needed the big cash cow to fix the year end results and to cover up the huge Solo reshoot costs before the year end.
    In the end every listed company makes decissions only based on shareholder expectations and year end bonuses. No matter what they tell the people, it's how the real world works and unfortunately there is no place for a Cinderella-esque light opera romance when it comes to listed companies.
     
  19. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 26, 2014
    I don’t think the reshoots were actually that expensive when considering the overall cost of the production. According to sources they still had 3.5 weeks of principle photography to shoot plus 5 weeks of already scheduled reshoots/pickups. So on top of that Ron had an additional shooting which was probably about 8 weeks worth. Considering everything else was already done and paid for the only real additional cost is that 8 weeks. Everything else was already set in stone and paid for - sets, costumes etc. all other departments like art, production and editing don’t double up either. While definitely not ideal and absolutely added cost to the production I don’t think it’s a case of adding serious bank to it.

    Also you’re statements about TLJ are confusing. They didn’t delay TLJ because it was finished and ready to go a month or two out from release and given the tick of approval by KK, Iger and Horn. TLJ was a super smooth production. It had nothing to with Solo. Given that TLJ made bank and critics loved it, as well as Disney stock slowly climbing over the past 5 years, I don’t we have too much to worry about.

    Likewise despite a change of directors and having an additional 8 weeks of shooting those didn’t derail Solo’s production either as it’s stuck to its initial schedule of May 25th.

    Solo’s trailer reaction has been getting good traction as well. I think it’ll be fine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
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  20. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Small, but Lethal star 6

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    Dec 22, 2015
    You can bet it did and it influences the yearly result a lot. I am not sure how aware you are of a proper project controlling but when KK decided (and got the "go" from Iger) to replace Lord and Miller they were already aware of a huge cost impact.

    I am pretty sure that at LF internally there were (like in every movie) complaints about some flaws that were adressed to be fixed. However because of the need to generate income and profit in 2017 to cover up the additional costs of Solo they might have decided to skip any corrections for TLJ to not run into a delay and to avoid negative rumors about having reshoots again. Having a smooth production the first time (except unhappy Hamill) sounds good at the shareholder meeting.

    [​IMG]
    Sorry to say it from a finance guys perspective but it was climbing before 2015 and afterwards it is slightly declining (except some peaks)

    If you are interested
    https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/investor-relations/
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
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  21. AndrewPascoe

    AndrewPascoe Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 26, 2014
    I didn’t say that Star Wars was the cause of the climb, I just said it was climbing which means profits. Those slight declines that you’re pointing out are blips which is why I gave a 5 year period which shows the bigger picture. Disney stock has been on the increase. You can argue that till you’re blue in the face but the figures are right there. As for the cost impact i also acknowledged that it was an impact just not to the extent some are making it out to be.

    Your argument about TLJ being impacted by Solo simply doesn’t hold. You’re basically implying that if Solo hadn’t of had its shake ups, and stayed on schedule, TLJ would have been delayed to allow time to “course correct”. If that was the case where would TLJ be released? Where would Solo be pushed to? This on top of the fact that again - they finished ahead of schedule leaving plenty of time for “course correction”.

    KK does not seem to give a hoot about what is written. She cares about the Star Wars brand and ensuring that the movies that are released are up to her standard of quality. That’s why she got extra help to finish R1. It’s why she dumped Trank, Trevorrow and Miller/Lord. It’s why she’s brought back JJ for 9 and given RJ his own trilogy. She is not beyond course correction. TLJ did not Need course correction or put out to simply recoup costs.

    You’re basically making a conspiracy theory out of nothing and it’s baseless. The powers that be loved the movie. They didn’t consider a course correction because this is the direction they have chosen.
     
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  22. darthgator1217

    darthgator1217 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 25, 2005
    This is good example in my mind of a good response by RJ to the question. I do not think we need an explanation for everything. I have read criticisms of Kylo reacting to the Falcon and for me, it was just a funny moment in the movie.
     
  23. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Small, but Lethal star 6

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    Dec 22, 2015
    Where did I say course correction? You mean the R1 reshoots I mentioned, well then maybe that was misleading. I meant reshoots as such like they happened for every big movie. (e.g. TFA had plenty of time to review things due to Fords accident)
    There is no conspiracy from my side but simple thinking from a financial point of view.
     
  24. darthgator1217

    darthgator1217 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 25, 2005
    This is a good point and is why I have said in the past that RJ is really in an awkward position. In the end, if somebody hates the movie, no explanation is likely to change that. I wonder if any of this stuff will be addressed on a potential directors commentary?

    Incidentally, I know that I have been a bit critical of RJ here and there on this thread, but I did actually enjoy TLJ. I think RJ has an incredible visual imagination which I would like to see more of in his upcoming trilogy.
    I think that if one views the movie from the "lens" of the style of the OT, then it hard to enjoy. He did not make a movie in the same exact vein as GL. He was obviously influenced by the OT and PT , but he has brought his own style of filming to the table and that is good.
     
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  25. darthgator1217

    darthgator1217 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 25, 2005
    You know its funny, we have at our disposal all of this data, but how reliable and valid is any of it really? The only thing I feel pretty sure of it that TLJ has certainly produced some strong emotional responses in many folks. I just simply cannot tell exactly how much the fanbase is divided, in pure quantitative sense.
     
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