ST Rian Johnson to write and direct Episode VIII (and also new SW Trilogy - see page 194)

With all of the attacks on Rian Johnson, The Last Jedi, Kelly Marie Tran, Solo, etc, I find yesterday's Hollywood Reporter article quite compelling. It definitely hits on one aspect of the hate that doesn't seem to be going away. And before someone jumps on me for it, I AM the age of the fans in question. For reference I was 6 when ANH came out.

Toxic Fandom is Killing Star Wars

This quote stuck with me. So many that hate and perpetuate the hate refuse to think forward. It's about what happened in the franchise 40 years ago, what happened in the last film, completely ignoring the fact that there is another film to go in the sequel trilogy. The anger is rooted during specific points in time as if the story is complete, and that's all we get.

Is everyone my age this bitter for this reason?

Of course not.

But for everyone screaming that Luke Skywalker was destroyed, or Rian Johnson ruined my childhood, or Disney killed the Star Wars I know, there is a lot of truth to what the author is writing about in the article. It isn't 1977, 1980 or 1983 any more. The story has moved on to the next generation. Luke Skywalker isn't 19. He has other experiences that in his fictional life in the interim that have shaped and molded him.

No, we can't catch the same lighting in a bottle that the OT did. No franchise is capable of that.

But I for one refuse to be mired in the past. Is the ST perfect? Not by any stretch of the imagination, but I long made peace with the fact that the characters have aged, and characters die. Their life experiences and timelines didn't stop in 1983, and I guess I'm not that kid that watched the films with a childish awe any more either. I'm middle age, my life has changed, and I don't need Luke Skywalker to be the focal point of the saga. Just as I take wonder watching my children head into adulthood, I look forward to seeing where this next generation of characters go in the saga.

Just like my priorities in life have changed, the saga's priorities have changed as well. Rian Johnson didn't ruin Star Wars for me. For me, he opened up new doors to explore.

And I'm okay with it.

 

Amen. I’m 44. Saw ESB when I was 6 and was hooked hard. Star Wars is something I remember most from childhood. I’m probably like a lot of the others here around the same age.

I now have daughters, a son, a business, a house, and bills. Perspective and priorities. Did I have some questions about TLJ going in vis a vis Luke? Sure. However, I think I saw what was intended and, even if I’d done a few things differently, I’m not stalking RJ’s twitter over it.

Star Wars is entertainment. It’s valued entertainment. I do feel a sense of ownership in my fandom, but it’s not so important that I’m clamoring for people to lose their jobs and be pushed off of social media.

Also, I’m not sure we can even fairly weigh TLJ without IX. ESB means more after ROTJ in 1983. I have no idea how I weathered three long years as a 6-9 year old wondering how Han would be freed and whether Vader was lying. It seems now like we always knew those answers. We didn’t. We don’t know it all now, even though one COULD take that surface read of TLJ.

 

Finn was deffnatly used badly. I was really looking forward to seeing how his story arc progressed after TFA and in the last jedi he seemed to be just a after thought.

 

I really think the obsession with demonizing fans whole cloth is the toxicity in SW fandom. A segment of racist/sexist/hateful fans is not new or unique to SW. Shoot it's not even owned by the side that dislikes TLJ. These articles act like everyone that didn't like a movie and want to discuss it are a part of that. It's totally absurd tbf.

 

I remember in 1999 when TPM came out. I was in my late 20's and I couldn't wait to see it. Unlike many people, I loved it. I saw it a bunch of times at the theater and had a great time. I enjoyed the PT very much and I was sad when it ended. Of course, there was and still is plenty of hate towards it. I remember fans posting videos destroying Jar Jar toys and of course there has never been a shortage of rants against the PT. Now, back then the media disliked the PT as well, so the fans were never called "toxic", heck, they just had good taste and the saw the PT for what it was, crappy movies. They were never told that they need to let go of the past and learn to deal with these new movies.

Fast forward to today. We have folks that do not like or even hate the ST, while the general media likes Disney SW. So if you are not on board you are a "toxic fan". You are the problem, so you should just get out b/c you are spoiling the fun for everyone else. I love how the piece above specially targets people like me who saw the OT in the theater. My question is this. Where were all of the younger people for the Solo movie? Why is the new Disney SW contracting instead of expanding in its popularity? It must be the alt right or perhaps even a directive by Putin himself to create more of those pesky Russian bots.

 

Of all the examples of dubious journalism and biased take on a subject, that Hollywood Reporter article takes the cake. We’re back to equating people who hated the movie to those who hate “social justice” and WOCs, and those who loved it to the “enlightened” ones.

As usual, the comment section becomes the most interesting feature of these articles. My favorite comment:

 

But...none of these articles are tarring the whole fandom, or even all people who disliked TLJ (I have a lot of criticisms myself). They are just legitimately calling out the bigots and the trolls. Why get defensive about that if it doesn't pertain to you?

 

So what?
There are also people out there who pretend that everyone who attacks a specific set of bigots and trolls is somehow attacking everyone who dislikes TLJ. It's the exact same thing, just turned on its head. There are also people out there who aren't racist bigots but show a large amount of arrogance and entitlement, who think they alone know what Star Wars is and how someone (be it Lucas or now Disney/RJ/Kennedy) is somehow ruining it because they don't adhere to his/her view. The whole thing can be applied to lots and lots of different stances, be it pro or contra.

If you want to find an example for a certain behaviour, you are very likely to find it somewhere if you just look hard enough. That doesn't mean that it makes sense to do so, nor does it mean that it is an opinion held by the masses.

 

Uh no that article is very generalized. “Toxic fandom is killing Star Wars” is the title, but it’s referring not to toxicity of hating people for disliking a movie (which is the toxicity imo) but only the people that don’t like TLJ. Go read the quote cited in here. It literally isn’t talking about racism. It’s generalizing fans of a certain age over the supposedly hateful way they’re reacting to Luke’s story and saying they’ve forgotten what Star Wars is about. If they want to talk about racist fans, A) racist fans are a tiny minority that exist in every single fandom, they’re not unique here and they can’t destroy SW any more than they did in the past or any more than they can destroy Star Trek; and B) there are racist fans on both sides of the TLJ debate that are awful. If they’re only calling out those that dislike the movie, hmmm, that’s convenient for a certain group of the fandom, not to mention some at LF, that explicitly demonize people for disliking a movie.

 

That's not true.

Toxicity within the fandom is pushing issues to the top of the agenda, which inadvertently reflects upon the fandom in general.

And, like it or not, some people that don't like TLJ revel in the reflective glow of dissension that the toxic aspect of the fandom inauthentically foments or augments.

 

You're reading different articles than I am, then.

 

Has it though? Then why has all the Disney Star Wars movies relied on OT nostalgia?

 

And like it or not, there are those that like TLJ that revel in generalizing fans over their opinions of a movie and call them names and are hateful. There are also people on that side that are racist bigots that harass JB.

Well I read the quote that’s posted in this thread about this article and it doesn’t once mention racism or trolls. If you didn’t read the quote in this thread, there’s not much to say.

 

Whataboutism?

 

“It’s whataboutism if you wont let me generalize only one side of fandom with bigotry!!!!!!!”

 

Now, now, don't be a spoilsport- it's his new favourite word!

 

Nobody's asking you to declare your love for a film in order to disassociate yourself from trolls.

But it should be considered where a good proportion of the dissension that is often invoked to lend equanimity to a negative stance on the film or aspects of it, "so many people" "such a backlash" etc, is coming from.

When did I generalise about one side of the fandom?


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The idea that a positive reception is fortified and therefore could be seen as being tainted by a significant volume of racist and sexist trolls is faintly ludicrous.

There's no need for any added antagonism on a subject that is already pretty sensitive.

 

I just read what Lucas said he planned to do with the sequel trilogy. Wow, I'm glad we are getting the trilogy we currently have.

 

What? I can’t quite decipher what you’re trying to say. All I did is repeat back to you things that are true on the other side of the fandom that you said about people that don’t like TLJ. That’s “added antagonism”? If that what you’re talking about? It sounds like you’re rationalizing painting one side with a broad brush but you think it’s totally unfair to have the other side pointed out. That’s ludicrous imo. Bigotry isn’t owned by people that don’t like a movie and people that don’t like a movie aren’t responsible for the bigotry that exist in every single fandom on a tiny scale. People that like TLJ are not whole cloth responsible for the bigots in that group that harass cast members that don’t get an outcry of sympathy from the media that only criticizes those that dislike a silly space opera film. The “added antagonism” is often in the form of people on social media being called “cry babies” or “bigots” or “women hating” after posting nothing more than a negative opinion on a fictional movie. I don’t even get it. Do people think they can shame people into not expressing their opinions on a movie?

 

Let's not be coy. Of course there is nostalgia. Every franchise does this. But the story of the ST is that of the next generation.

The HR article never made an attempt to be an journalistic article. There are no cited sources.

It's an opinion piece. And trying to paint it as "fake news" is kind of disingenuous in the attempts to demonize the piece.

Yes, the author is calling out pockets of fandom. The racists, the manbabies, the alt-right lunatics.

No one is questioning anyone's right to dislike or criticize the film. But when the complaint is bombed in a forum day after day after day for six months, it gets pretty exhausting and I do have to ask when does that complaint transform from a once valid criticism to outright whining?