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Official Info Rian Johnson to write and direct Episode VIII

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi & IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by Momotaros, Jun 20, 2014.

  1. ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2014
    star 5
    So given his recent Kylo comments, an anti-Rian task force of sorts has sprung up. It's mostly ridiculous panic, but one shared this quote that I initially thought was made up to smear him. However it's legit.

    I admit, it does make Rian sound like one of those somewhat bitter gatekeepers of nerd culture who bristle if an attractive women indulges in their nerdy interests. The quote is from 2009, but Rian was 35 at the time so it's not like he hadn't had time to outgrow such ideas, or at least learn to articulate them better. Enough preamble, I'm just curious to hear reactions from others (emphasis is mine):
  2. Chained Prometheus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2013
    star 4

    Yeah, that's probably not the best quote to have out there, for sure. I think I get what he might be trying to say there, but it's a thin line and if I am interpreting it right, Rian could and should have been clearer about articulating that. That being said, I think the Anti-Rian Brigade we're seeing lately is rather concerning. From what all I've seen over the years, Rian is nothing like Trevorrow, for instance.
    Mostly Handless likes this.
  3. ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2014
    star 5
    No I agree Rian is being treated far too harshly. As for the quote, I can't really defend it, nor would I want to. What I can do is hope Rian's encounters with nerdy female Star Wars fans over the last half year have brought more appreciation, understanding and balance to his perspective.
    Last edited by ThreeDeathstickProblem, Sep 11, 2017
  4. cerealbox Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2016
    star 5
    But what if those nerdy female Star Wars fans he encountered were hawt?
  5. Chained Prometheus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2013
    star 4

    Oh I agree with you entirely.

    I'm not saying what I think he meant because I don't think it'd be right for me to defend him on this either. If it's what I think he meant, then that's what he should have said in the first place. Even if I do get where he might have been coming from, what he said specifically here isn't really something that should be defended. Like you said, I just hope Rian's grown from his interactions over the years since then.
  6. ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2014
    star 5
    Well I mean in comparison to me, every Star Wars fan is probably considered hawt. Seriously I do you guys a favor by not using my actual face. :p

    But hopefully, while any hawt girls (or guys? I don't know Rian) were questioning him with level-7 geek questions it dawned on him that his previous evaluation of nerd culture was wonky.
  7. JoJoPenelli Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2000
    star 5
    Not excusing the RJ-bashing in the least, but, uh, I had kinda assumed that LFL and JJ knew what they were in for with the Kylo/Han scene. I got the sense that JJ *wanted* to evoke a visceral negative reaction in a large chunk of the audience. I'm sure we'll learn stuff in TLJ that makes us feel more sympathetic towards Kylo, but the movie isn't out yet, and fans on both sides are reacting just as JJ/LFL knew they would.
  8. Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 6
    I'm pretty hot if I do say so myself. I mean on a scale of 1 to 10 I'd probably put myself at an 11.
  9. Chained Prometheus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2013
    star 4

    Stupid Sexy Dark Side Users...

    :p


    But yeah, at the end of the day, one can only hope that Rian's grown a bit on the matter in the years since that quote. Judging by the interviews and attitude I've seen from him over the years, I'd wager it's a safe bet that he probably has.

    And lord knows there are far worse things for someone to ever say. Personally speaking, I distinctly remember some stuff I once said when I was younger and now I just feel shame and regret for ever holding those sorts of views, even if I didn't realize what I was thinking at the time was actually wrong and selfish. At the end of the day, all anyone can really do is make peace with the mistakes you've made and aim to grow from them.
  10. Organafan Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2017
    star 2
    A few things might still get added leading up to the release. I wouldn't even know where to look if I wanted to see a leaked movie. I'm too careful about sites I visit, and want an official big, clear, and complete theatrical release anyway.
  11. cerealbox Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2016
    star 5
    Your trailer predictions lowers you down to a 7 tops.
    Last edited by cerealbox, Sep 11, 2017
  12. ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2014
    star 5
    Very true and reasonable. Rian speaks very well about the ST characters and hasn't said anything on them that raises flags.

    On the other hand (there's always an other hand), dude was 35 when he said this. I hope he's grown, but it's not impossible he's just gotten better at holding his tongue and being diplomatic. It's not the end of the world if he still thinks this way. I'll not boycott TLJ or Rian's future films or anything like that. But it does make me cringe to read it.
  13. PymParticles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2014
    star 5
    I agree it's cringey, as it pretty much embodies the "Nerds are the real victims, man!" kind of nerd-niche gatekeeping I abhor, but I don't think it's impossible for him to have changed. To some extent, I think the world has changed so drastically over the past ~eight years that regardless of how old you are, that change has likely affected you. My dad is 48, but he's not the same person I remember him being in 2009; his stances and beliefs on a great many things have shifted in what I would consider to be a positive direction, so I don't think it's impossible for Rian to have similarly changed.
  14. Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2016
    star 5
    The context of this quote makes it clear to me that RJ wasn't singling out females - or at least that wasn't the focus of his barb. He was, rather, poking fun at the mainstreaming of the nerd concept (Big Bang Theory and all that), and unfortunately used an indelicate example that comes across as sexist. Though he was obviously being pretty jokey about it, with the "if you don't have damage done to your psyche as a result of being a nerd, it doesn't count" bit. That's pretty funny, and obviously a self-deprecating exaggeration. I'm sure he doesn't actually believe that.

    This is a significant straw-grasping attempt by the anti-RJ brigade, IMO, if they are trying to hang him with it. While I think RJ used a bad example of the phenomenon he was describing - one that sounds sexist - he was obviously making an off-color joke to poke fun at trends in mainstream culture.

    If there's anyone out there equating this with the deeply unsettling sexism of Trevorrow's work and statements, they're really grasping for reasons to dislike the man. It was an unfortunate turn of phrase, and I wish he'd chosen a different example to explain himself, but the context makes it clear to me that this was just an unfortunate joke, and not an indication of deep-seated sexism.
    Last edited by Gigoran Monk, Sep 11, 2017
  15. EmperorHorus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2016
    star 2
    That's the quote people are roasting RJ over? Wow that's nothing, I was expecting much worse. It was a bit pretentious and douchey maybe but hardly any real malice or prejudice in there.

    Nothing to see here AFAIC
    Last edited by EmperorHorus, Sep 11, 2017
  16. Artoo-Dion New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2009
    star 5
    The missing context is simply that the comment was made eight years ago, which is, notably, pre-Gamergate and pre-alt-right. There is a legitimate conversation to be had about the co-opting of nerd/geek culture, but the toxic influence of the alt-right means that an answer like that today would have very different connotations. I'd judge Rian differently if he gave that answer today, but as it stands, it's just a bit tone deaf.
  17. ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2014
    star 5
  18. Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2016
    star 5
    Yes, that (though Deathstick did highlight it here). Also, it seems to me that Rian was also poking fun at nerds (including himself) with the "if you're not damaged, you're not a nerd" schtick. It's pretty consistent with a pattern of self-deprecating humor from RJ. If he said this with deadly seriousness, that would be a different and far more worrying story.
    Last edited by Gigoran Monk, Sep 11, 2017
  19. Artoo-Dion New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2009
    star 5
    Right, but what I'm getting at is that it's more than being simply about the passage of time or the wisdom that brings. The rise of the alt-right during that period is the thing that is perhaps not immediately apparent when you think about what's happened in the last eight years, but that's exactly what gives the quote a more sinister connotation than what it had in 2009.

    The "stigmata" reference is what flags it as being self-deprecating. But "It was a joke" is used too often to excuse really appalling sentiments (e.g. just look at the defences of Home Base in the Trevorrow thread), so I'd rather not lean on that.
    Last edited by Artoo-Dion, Sep 11, 2017
  20. ThreeDeathstickProblem Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2014
    star 5
    This is the nuance I wasn't likely to find among those spreading the quote. This is why I brought it here.

    Much appreciation to everyone taking the time to respond.
    Last edited by ThreeDeathstickProblem, Sep 11, 2017
  21. MagnarTheGreat Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2016
    star 4
    Japan Fan Meeting - Full Q&A video



    Rian Johnson: “I can’t tell you [what in particular surprised Mark Hamill and Daisy Ridley in the script] because then it wouldn’t be a surprise, but it was very gratifying for me that Mark and Daisy and the whole rest of the cast when they read it they were very shocked by some of the things that happen in the script because they are kind of the first audience that we have for the story and they know the characters better than anybody. There are things I think will really shock the audience but you never want it to just be an empty surprise for the sake of it being a surprise. You always want it to be an emotional story that makes sense that surprising things happen naturally in. So I hope those are the kind of things that will make the audiences gasp when they see this movie.”

    “[How Rey grows as she deals with this newfound power is] really her journey during the course of this movie and that’s part of why the character of Rey was so exciting for me. I think for myself growing up Luke Skywalker who was the hero that I looked up to and as a kid I think that you – Star Wars is very much about in adolescence when you’re finding your place in the world and that’s very much what Rey is going through right now but in a very different way than Luke. So for me it’s one of the big things – the first emotionally that hooked me into the character – and it’s a big, big part of what we’re gonna see in this movie.”

    “[Darth Vader as Luke’s father is] one of the biggest surprises in movie history I think so…we’ll match that, sure, yeah.” [audience laughter] "No, but it's interesting because in this...I talked about it a little bit before but I think that was very much...I wanted to make sure when I started writing that I wasn't trying to manufacture a surprise as big as that and that if there - I think that there are things in this movie that will be very big and shocking but I think it would have led to something very bad if I'd thought, 'I have to come up with a surprise as big as I-am-your-father.' I think that would have ended up leading to a contrived place. So I think there are some very...there are some things that are really going to shock the audience but like I said before I hope we come to them naturally and not just trying to create a big surprise moment."

    "Yes and that was another thing that instantly hooked me into The Force Awakens and I think that's one of the things that J. J. [Abrams] created that was so interesting is a villain who is layered and complex and he isn't [Darth] Vader...at least not yet. And you can really see his weaknesses and you can see that's he petulant and you can see that he's not mature. And that's very very interesting to me and I really enjoyed writing that character. You'll see in this film [that] we find the cracks in his armor and we split them apart and try and see deeper into Kylo [Ren] and what makes him tick."

    RJ Quote Archive
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  22. nightangel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2014
    star 6
    let's hope RJ doesn't want some similar shock effect with making Luke the bad guy to make Kylo look more sympathetic or turning Rey. :rolleyes:
  23. arjank Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2015
    star 4

    I hope these shocking things aren't going to diminish certain characters...
  24. CEB Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2014
    star 5
    What does that even mean? Of course "characters will be diminished". What is drama if not a series of situations that change the place in which power resides from character to character?
  25. arjank Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2015
    star 4

    TFA did a good diminishing job, TLJ should not add fuel to that, and if so, the reason should be really, really good.
    ChildOfWinds and nightangel like this.