PT RLM provides a brilliant satire of prequel bashing, not an actual critique of the prequels!

This threat shows the videos are so bad, people try to write them off as satire to give some kind of redeeming quality.

Alas, I don't believe they were made to be satire. He seems to be very serious about the views he holds. He pretty much ripped apart the guy who made a very in-depth retort to his videos, as if to say that his opinions are the only ones that matter. But seriously, he presents the videos as a joke, but also expects to be taken seriously? You can't have it both ways.

 

He wants his cake and eat it too. He wants to be taken serious, but uses a "satire shield" to run under to protect his rear. Many online reviewers are like that.

 

Dont get all the hate toward RLM in this thread... The videos are entertaining, funny and in my opinon - more entertaining than the prequel movies themselves. He provides great insight about why the prequels were not well made movies. And he must be doing something right if his first TPM video has 6 million views, a celeb tweeted it (forgot which celeb), and this thread is at 9 pages talking about him.

 

Simon Pegg tweeted it, so it is from someone who holds the PT in the same esteem as RLM. I do believe Roger Ebert praised the reviews however.

 

Let me try to put it to you this way:

Let's say RLM targeted the OT, instead of the PT. The OT, though not with the same amount of venom, received similar criticisms as the PT back in the day. The actors spoke out against Lucas directing techniques, and commented about the overabundance of effects and the difficulty working with it and the terrible dialogue they had to recite on a daily basis. Basically, the Prequels on a micro scale. Without the internet to stoke the flames and influence mass opinion these criticisms never caught on with the general public. But here comes RLM "exposing" the true undercurrent of "incompetence" and "overreliance" of effects that pervades each of the original films. Let's also pretend for a moment that it's the '80s, so while people are still caught up in Star Wars hysteria, the films haven't cemented themselves in cinematic history as great works of art. People watch these videos in their hypothetical '80s world and feel the points they make are valid and really get to the heart of what's wrong with Star Wars. Even people that loved Star Wars are forced to acknowledge their flaws, though begrudgingly. It gets so bad that these reviews become gospel, and now liking Star Wars is taboo. Star Wars has gone from subjectively bad to objectively bad. There's nothing you a fan can do, because the court of public opinion has decided that you are wrong and they are right.

This is why the hate exits.

I can and will acknowledge flaws in any film and I appreciate a lively debate, but RLM has shutdown the debate and inhibited creative-thinking when it comes to the PT. The greatest sin to me is that it's made people lazy in their critiques of the prequels. They've become over-reliant on parroting the reviews, instead of sitting down and evaluating the movies themselves. If I hated the prequels, I'd probably be enamored with RLM as well. It's an awesome feeling having your attitudes/opinions validated by others, especially when they wield a type of authority over popular opinion. What gets lost is the fact that RLM is rooted in bias. It's hard for anyone to escape bias, but RLM doesn't try to distance itself from it, even in its concluding segments that dispense with the comedic facade it pits the prequels against the OT, but it never acknowledges any mistakes or flaws within the OT. It doesn't try to look at the film from the creators perspective in any serious way...it's dismissive of the prequel's almost entirely robbing them of merit and tries to impose and project its own viewpoint on the thoughts and opinions of the people featured in the behind the scenes videos, while subsequently trying to trick the viewer into believing that these are their true thoughts externalized. It twists Lucas words and others to make them sound oafish and misguided. It leaves no room for any interpretation besides its own.

It's like a Michael Moore documentary. It seems good and it seems valid, but when you truly examine it you find that it's fatally compromised by a unmistakable bias, and it skews the facts to fit its own narrative.

Roger Ebert didn't like Blue Velvet and that's when I stopped taking him seriously as a critic.

 

No. There's no comparison between the "criticism" the OT received compared to the prequels. That's even taking RLM & the entire internet out of the equation. At the time of the OT you had some sarcastic ribbing by Ford about a couple of lines, some negative comments by Guinness about obsessive fans...& not much else. The OT films never received criticism for their value or worth as movies by the OT cast. Yet in the case of the PT you had Neeson calling AotC "just a bunch of pyrotechnics" & the performances of the cast of TPM "wooden". McGregor called TPM "pretty flat" & now Daniels has called them all "cold & pointless".

It pays to be reminded of the level of instant critical acclaim ANH received. It's pretty phenomenal. It wasn't loved by every single person or critic alive but by an overwhelming number. Unheard of for a sci-fi movie it was nominated for 10 Academy Awards including Best Picture, Director & even an acting Oscar for Guinness. It won 6.

I'm a PT fan too but we have to deal with facts. Even forgetting the internet there's no comparison between the reception, the acclaim & the criticism between the OT & the PT. With the OT there was nothing to ever "catch on with the general public". Just an overwhelmingly positive reaction & sense of goodwill.

 

Amazing write up. Ive thought this for years, even in the midst of the hate. Its a big shame voices like yours are burried by mass media hate. From the web, print and tv media, pt hate is stronger than ever, its at fever pitch and its also infiltrated the public as ive had many face to face conversations about the greatness of the pt - you can imagine what the reactions have been like...yes that bad. Shame...big, big shame.

(Im in my 40's and been into SW since i was 6)

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

I think only the first part of his TPM review has that many hits, they sharply drop off in the later parts which means a large chunk of those 6 million didn't bother to watch the whole review.

 

I think that those people on these RLM videos have only decayed social relations and demeaned public debates on the internet with their caustic, aggressive and nasty rhetorics which have risen false stories and other anecdotes surrounding the prequels out of proportion. And then they use them to track human errors in order to better use those mistakes as a weapon and discredit other people such as Lucas.

It's only promoting "anti-intellectualism", but that's common flaw within humans: it's much easier to mock something than trying to understand it. The perfect example is when Lucas says, in the behind the scenes of The Phantom Menace: "You see the echo of where all is gonna go. It's like poetry, they rhyme", the first comment that Plinkett makes about that is: "That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.", an attempt to discredit everything Lucas was making or saying.

Ok, then in his reviews, he spent much of his time tracking all the similarities between the PT and the OT and saying that Lucas "was lacking imagination" since he was copying the OT in the PT. But during all this time, when making his reviews, he never thought of or never made any reference to Lucas' quote above: "It's like poetry, they rhyme" and then he could finally understand what Lucas meant earlier with all those similarities?!?

Fortunately, there's someone much smarter than that Plinkett guy who understood what Lucas meant:

The worst thing is that Plinkett said in his reviews of Titanic: "Most people are dumb, and don't like to be challenged intellectually or emotionally.They like the familiar and gravitate towards things that feel safe and non-confrontational."

He is no exception, he's like the regular or average people who, when they don't understand something, simply mocks it and ridicule it. But it also shows that he's completely contradicting himself in his reviews by saying something that seems rational, and then doing the complete opposite on the other side. Of course, some can argue that he didn't want to mean that he hated everything that seems new or different from what he likes. But why does he says on his reviews of the PT: "The prequels should have made in the very same style as the originals, because I don't like things that are different"?!?

I think that sums pretty much the thinking and the average intelligence of that guy.

The most troublesome thing is that a lot of so-called "fans" have been doing almost the same thing during the past 15 years against Lucas which is really disgusting, leading other people, without any or few knowledge about Star Wars, to do the same, because people tend to "follow the flow" which is a lot easier than thinking by themselves.

Those RLM reviews are neither "intellectual" nor "entertaining". It has only raised more disrespect, mockery and aggressiveness between people, and less and less thinking, researching and understanding which are the foundations of intelligence and intellectualism.

 

The argument that the PT and the OT have been met with the same criticisms and that the PT is held in lower regard because of the Internet and because of group think is absurd. The Internet exists now, yet where are the o-so-popular videos bashing the OT?

Facts are facts. The PT was not as well received as the OT. It really is that simple. Time is a film's greatest critic and the PT has not fared well in that regard as well. I see a lot of people making emotional responses to something that doesn't like what they like. Which is fine, but the venom being tossed around is pretty one sided. I don't see many PT critics calling fans morons, yet it's ok for PT fans to do it.

Again, I can understand your frustration and you have every right to defend your positions, but the name calling is above this place.

 

Hey, if some monotone guy talking for an hour in a poorly scripted video is your thing, then have at it. No one's going to hold you back. But understand why so many people don't respect him and the work he does; just look at just about every post in the 9 pages you mentioned.

George Lucas must be doing something right if his TPM video made $1,027,044,677. See that logic?

 

Mhhh... The OT was also poorly received by critics back on their time when they were first released. Facts are facts, and the originals are as bad as the prequels if the critics say so:

And concerning the word "fact", I have a little reminder here:

 

Considering Star Wars was nominated for best picture and best director at the 1977 Oscars, I think we can safely say the overall critical reception was positive.

 

I don't think you can, actually.

 

Again, seems overall positive.

 

Stoklasa gave a more positive review of Trank's FF than any of the PT. = Credibility out the window.

 

The only thing that bothers me about those videos is actually nothing to do with Star Wars - remarkably he made me like the films even more - because it's quite easy to come through them not only unconvinced - but in the process of refutation you find out that things are actually better than he reckons.

For example all this "who is Qui-gon stuff ?" makes you think - actually I really like that character now I think about it !

Anyway - what ultimately bins them for me is that they are an example - one with the density of a super-massive black hole, of the modern phenomenon of internet hatred. That guy has basically made a career for himself on a snarky youtube comment writ large.

Now I like the freedom of being able to say what you want - who isn't - and the youtube critic was quite funny when it started - 'Look at the gall of this guy - you can just call stuff out as if you were on a review show - the artist is no longer at the mercy of a select few 'friends' in the media - anyone can come and bite you on the a$$ - in hi definition glory, even using bits of your work to mock and pull apart !'.

However there is a thin dividing line between a good honest ribbing for a laugh and an obsessive take down.

It is so relentless and unforgiving it borders on the ... nope I'm not stooping that low.

Only Star Wars creates this kind of fandom were obsessive hate and love co-exist in the same universe - how ironic.

Star Wars was about a kid in the middle of no-where getting off the farm to take on the galaxy - a metaphor for the grand adventure in life that could be anyone's for the taking, and a stimulus for the eyes as much as the mind. Grand fun.

It not longer fits with this cynical world though, when anyone at anytime can pass by and just pi$$ on your parade. In fact in this world you can be celebrated for doing just that. Destroying instead of constructing. Trolling instead of contributing. Taking down rather than building up.

There is a place for a good roast, but not obsessive hatred. Not over films about space wizards and robots. The take down of RLM's videos are baked in, because such a display is the end stop in the whole debacle. Of course they are cool and funny if you agree, but from a distance, really they just look weird.
Dude. You failed to get off the farm, so you only had that last option I guess. Well done - you created a genre, there are plenty of sad copyists up there with you, so you share something with Lucas after all - you influenced an entire generation....

of failed creators / professional moaners.

 

I'm not going to dig up quotes, but Lucas was criticized back then for his "faster, more intense" directing style. The dialogue was criticized along with the over-abundance of effects both by actors and by critics - in fact the actors were more vocal back then. I made it clear from the get-go that the criticisms were not on the same scale, but they were there. It's also not unreasonable to assume that if the internet existed back in the late '70s early '80s that there would be the type of over-analysis of Star Wars that we see directed towards films today. You also have to factor in that Star Wars was something new, something bold. People were stunned, and more inclined to be forgiving of any shortcomings. I think that's essentially why it was nominated for Best Picture. Same goes for something like Avatar. I think most agree that pioneering effects work aside, Avatar doesn't have much to offer story-wise. That's probably why Star Wars thrives, while something like Avatar, though highly profitable, doesn't linger in the public consciousness.

This isn't scientific -- like at all -- but here's a thread from tfn that details how the prequels received more positive overall reviews compared to their original counterparts according to rottentomatoes. The original RT article was pulled unfortunately, so that'll have to suffice.

But here's the thing that one has to take into account: the prequels, most likely, received a lot of good will by virtue of being part of a storied franchise. No one went in wanting to dislike them, so it's incredibly possible that the prequels would have been ravaged by critics had they been a completely independent entity.

 

I actually think people have become way to critical these days. You don't know what I am talking about? I think James Rolf sums it up pretty well at the end of his top 10 dumbest Indiana Jones momment video.

 

Jangounchained1990 That's interesting comment.

When Kingdom of the Crystal Skull came out, I didn't see it - I saw all the originals as and when they came out and kinda liked them - whatever.
Anyhow after the new one I picked up on more Lucas hate - he had apparently gone and ruined another franchise. Similiar themes, it was full of over the top CGI, had a ridiculous plot and dubious action - trust Luca$h to mess up again.

So when it came on t.v I was completely taken aback. It seamed EXACTLY like the other films. Even the infamous opening just stank of a classic Lucas/Spielberg round table - and I thought it was quite funny. What was the problem with the crystal skull - why all the hate and vitriol, what memories had it trashed now?

Nothing as far as I could see - more like the world had moved far far away from the environment in the 80's that allowed such fare to pass as entertainment.

Same with Red Tails. Have you noticed the internet warriors stamping their mark on the net by giving it one or zero star ratings and making sure they get their pennies worth of Lucas hate anywhere he pops up on the net. Worst. Film. Ever. Apparently.

Seamed OK to me, had as many flaws as any other film - but people couldn't accept the spirit in which it was made - or indeed any perceived errors in the action portrayed - right down to arguing about what caliber of bullets could sink a ship. That change in the attitude outlined by that guy in the video is incompatible with George's generation unfortunately - and probably why films these days are maybe technically impressive, and mostly free of eye rolling moments, but equally free of things to be remembered for generations.

 

The screenplay was widely praised. Lucas not only received an Academy Award nomination for Best Picture & Best Director but also Best Screenplay. Again you underestimate just how praised this movie was & not only in technical terms but as a legitimate "film". It was the story & characters & on screen relationships that resonated every bit as much as the amazing visuals.

 

Whilst that is true, unless you were around in those times it maybe difficult to understand that even then, and despite the generally positive reception, Star Wars was not necessarily 'cool' and universally liked. Amongst my friends at the time (this ages me!) I reckon it was a lower than 50/50 split between those of us who loved it, and those who even at that young age thought a lot of it was pretty stupid. As I grew older even less people seamed to be into it, as then as now it was hipper to be into the more serious films - like Alien or Blade Runner.

These are just anecdotes, but really plenty of people even seeing the OT at the time voiced the kind of stuff people make youtube videos out of now. What was with the gay robot? Is R2D2 for five year olds? Why does Yoda speak like Kermit - a likely Jedi Master !

My father thought it was the greatest rip off ever since he could point to every scene as coming from all of his childhood faves - including of course Flash Gordon.

All I'm trying to get over is that there was never this golden age when Star Wars was loved by everybody - regardless of the critical acclaim, except during the
re-visit up to the SE's - then the idea began to solidify that these were the greatest films ever made - flawless jewels of everybody's childhood. How and why that happened I am not sure about. I saw them at the time - yet the PT seamed exactly what I had expected. Why others thought George was going to make a Tarantino film, or something more like the Matrix was just due to second guessing - or thinking what they would do now.

 

Yep & people no doubt have personal anecdotes of people who hated the Lord of the Rings movies or the Matrix or the Dark Knight. Yet those films can be considered to have near universal acclaim. Opinions are everywhere. There are always those who dislike something. Yet when a movie like Star Wars is such a popular phenomenon, is praised by most & amazingly receives 10 Oscar nominations including Best Picture & even screenplay & acting nominations it has to fall into (or beyond) the category with those types of highly acclaimed movies. Movies with very little negativity surrounding them. That's not a recent thing or even a 1990's thing. It was largely the case upon the release of the OT has has only grown with subsequent viewings over the years.

 

I have heard very few negative critisim of the LOTR trilogy. But as for Nolans Batman film and the Matrix they were more a victim of having sequels that were considered subpar. Actually kinda strange how ROTJ and the PT did not have this effect on how people viewed the earlier installments.

 

Actually it was opposite. He quoted that Lucas comment plenty of times. He plays it over & over like a meme to highlight (in his mind) Lucas' unoriginality.

But you make a good point. What's funny though is that the argument you make in support of the repeated themes seems to get forgotten by some PT fans with regard to TFA. Some PT fans put fwd your valid argument in defense of the prequels on the one hand & at the same time have digs at TFA. For example the new film will begin the next new hero's journey of the Saga on a planet that evokes Tatooine, thus echoing ANH & TPM. Or other such similarities & references that we know of. It's like they get into a slanging match with TFA fans by saying "our similarities are better than your similarities" !

Seems even some PT fans like to take a page out of RLM's book when it suits them.

The first Matrix & TDK have very good reputations I would've thought. Still that was my point, you'll always find some people who dislike something. Whether it's those films, the OT, the Godfather, anything. Despite that some movies sit within the "near universal acclaim" category. The OT films are among them.