Saga RO or TFA?

Rogue One

 

If you had asked me this question after my first theater viewing of each I'm not sure what I would have said. Now that I've seen both movies several times (including viewings months after the first) it's easily Rogue One. TFA is a really good movie, but it's fallen off a little with time for me. I now see it like ROTJ - a good, but flawed movie that played it safe a little too often. Rogue One on the other hand has only gotten better with repeated viewings... to the point where I now have it right behind TESB... and in some ways I think Rogue One is the best SW film ever made. It has the most realistic characterizations and it's more complex/adult when it comes to much of the theming and plotting. There's quite a few subtle things going on that you notice more with repeated viewings. Rogue One in many ways is the most unique of the SW films and I think it vies with TESB in being the most original of all the sequels and prequels.

I really don't get the criticism of the characters in Rogue One - after seeing the film it actually reveals how paper thin and basic the characters are in some of the other SW films.

I'll never be able to watch ANH without Rogue One again.

 

Rogue One in every single way I can possibly think of.

 

I also feel that my opinion has changed at this point since I first saw them. I would have definitely said TFA at the time, and R1 is technically still "fresh," as it were-whereas I have now seen TFA many times over the last year and had the time to pick it apart. Although I'm not sure I'd ever do the same with R1, since it's meant not as a continuation of the story into new territory, but rather a supplement to the existing story, smack dab in the middle of it all.

So I will settle on Rogue One, in terms of how the story was carried out, how it contributed to the series in terms of continuity, and how-unlike TFA-it hit many "satisfaction points" for me, rather than leaving me with more questions than answers. In a few words: IMO R1 was more satisfying.

 

I need to rewatch Rogue One because I haven't seen it since it had just come out in theaters.

For now though, I'm going to say The Force Awakens. Rogue One bored the crap out of me. I don't feel like I ever really got to know Jyn as a character. Cassian's "character arc" is set up early but never pays off. K2-SO wasn't as entertaining as I hoped he would be. He just felt like a cross between C-3PO and Marvin from Hitchhiker's Guide. Everything leading up to the battle of Skarif just felt like a bunch of boring, undeveloped characters going from one ugly set piece to the next. Also, either Tarkin or Vader should have been cut from the movie. I don't care which one, but we didn't need both of them. Tarkin's role needed to be there, but it could have been done by either Tarkin or Vader. All of Vader's scenes were unnecessary.

There were some things I liked about Rogue One though. I enjoyed the third act a lot. It had what was easily the best space battle I've ever seen in a Star Wars movie. I liked Donnie Yen and the greasy mexican guy. They kept their arcs very small and contained, so it was easier to complete their stories in a satisfying manner. I liked Krennic a lot. He was the only character in the movie that I actually felt a strong connection with. Even though I didn't like seeing a CGI Peter Cushing, Krennic's scenes with Tarkin were great and really helped me feel Krennic's frustration. I also think it was pretty bold of them to kill off all the main characters in the end. That's something you don't see in movies very often and I admire that.

The Force Awakens kept me entertained the whole way through. It had great pacing and I never once felt bored. I felt invested in the new characters and I liked how the old ones were handled. It was the definition of a "studio-safe soft-reboot", but at least it entertained me from beginning to end and all the characters got fully realized character arcs. Force Awakens just felt like a tighter, well-constructed film.

 

While I could name a few problems with Rogue One, I can easily say it's miles ahead of TFA. R1 might be a bit slow-paced but it works; TFA rips itself to shreds at the speed it's going. R1 is far better at consistency, characters, affects, design, story... just about everything! I don't think I need to talk about this!

 

Rogue One

Not perfect, but it feels more fun and watchable to me strangely enough. Plus it feels like it adds to the overall saga more then TFA, ANH in particular of course.

 

Rogue One. It may have been sloppy in some places (looking at you Saw), but it felt like it added more to the lore of Star Wars. As much as I like The Force Awakens, I don't really know what direction it was trying to take Star Wars.

 

Rogue One, hands down.

It was such a great movie in the sense of it brought the "War" into Star Wars. This really did it for me.

It wasn't perfect, it wasn't going to win any awards. But it was a fantastic piece that filled out an interesting niche.

 

Rogue One

I find it better in every way over TFA

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Rogue One. By far.

 

I love Rogue One, more so every time I watch it, but I still prefer The Force Awakens. That's in large part down to the characters, which I find myself far more attached to in TFA than in RO.

 

Rogue Awakens*

 

That's being nicely different!

 

Even though I am not much of a fan of what Disney is doing I prefer Rogue One (despite its shortcomings) as it contained things that I have always wanted to see in a SW movie.

 

The Force Awakens, absolutely. Rogue One is on the same level as Return of the Jedi for me: very satisfying and very fun. TFA was fricken' spectacular and more on the level as A New Hope and (almost) The Empire Strikes Back. Plus TFA gave me my favorite character, so...

Both are wonderful and I'm looking forward to watching R1 over and over as I do with TFA.

 

Still The Force Awakens. I liked Rogue One but got the feeling it wasn't going to work on me, emotionally, beyond the first experience the way TFA has. I was wrong about that, but I am still mainly in thrall to the new trilogy, of which TFA is only the beginning.

There's something about the way that Cassian opens his eyes before the blast engulfs them, though. Really, really quite extraordinary. Bravo to Luna, Edwards, Jones et al.

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That's Disney for you.

 

Rogue One.

I don't dislike TFA, I'm just apathetic about it. I have only seen it 1.5 times on Netflix and wasn't interested enough to watch the rest of it the second time. I like Rey and Finn. BB-8 is cute. The First Order didn't impress me. I thought it would be cooler to see the original ANH characters, but when I saw Han Solo's first scene, all I could think was "I don't want to see an old Han Solo" I don't know why I thought that and I was fine with Leia and Luke, but old Han freaked me out, even though I liked his character and lines. I get why Luke couldn't just show up and save the day, but I don't like that he is only it the movie for like 30 seconds. It's a beautifully made movie but to me it was just... fine. I have no desire to see it again, sadly.

I love RO. I saw it in the theater and was kind of like WTF just happened. I couldn't believe they killed everyone (although I assumed they would; and I assumed it was Vader that would do it). There were things I didn't like. For example, too much CGI Tarkin and not enough Krennic. I think Saw was misused, which may have been a result of editing. I also don't like that Vader lives in a castle. Not sure why this bugs me -- I just assumed he lived on his ship, I guess.

Overall, I really liked the characters. A bunch of people with nothing left to lose who ultimately cared for each other ( even if they didn't really know each other) and who worked together to make something happen. I really liked Jyn. One of my fave scenes is on Jedha when Cassian draws his blaster and seems to think he's going to have to save her from the Stromtroopers, and then he watches her take them out herself.

I also really liked Bodhi - he went from nervous to someone who believed in himself. He finally got some confidence and was directing the other guys about the comm tower got it plugged in and got a hold of Raddus and you could tell how proud he was of himself. Great, though tragic, character arc. Even though it was a large ensemble cast and you didn't get to know a lot of their stories, I still felt attached to them and wanted them to somehow get off of Scarif. The music was good, the planets looked cool, Bail Organa was there. K2 was funny and endearing. Raddus was a gd badass. Why isn't there a Raddus emoji?!

I've watched it a few times since and it gets better every time. Off the top of my head, those are some of the reasons why I picked RO.

 

This thread makes me wonder how opinions would be different if Rogue One had come before The Force Awakens. I wonder if that was ever on the table.

Anyway, I don't think most people would object that both movies were very well-made technically. But I would give the edge to Rogue One for cinematography. I remember seeing somewhere that Gareth Edwards encouraged the crew to try for shots that were as visually memorable as possible (many of which didn't even make the final cut). Accordingly, in terms of shots that stick out in my memory as being just impeccably composed and/or deeply satisfying on an aesthetic level, TFA has some grand ones but RO consistently hits that mark.

Story-wise, the two movies obviously have different storytelling goals. I just connected with and loved Rogue One more. TFA was the first entry in a trilogy, crafting a relatively new story and mythology; as such, it needed to start off with instantly compelling, larger-than-life, almost archetypal characters in Rey, Finn, Kylo, etc. That's one of the reasons the beginning of TFA is so good, but the rest of the movie seems to be carried on the strength of the characters alone. (I have high hopes for TLJ as a second act and its ability to make everything about TFA a lot more meaningful in retrospect.)

In contrast, RO is both standalone and in medias res -- the backdrop of the story is already filled in, and what better backdrop than a secret rebellion in its most desperate hour, in danger of being crushed before it's even had the chance to prove itself? Personally, I'm uninterested in spirituality and so I didn't miss the Force at all here; instead, I get weak-kneed over stories about deeply personal family ties and the epic, all-encompassing struggle of war. TFA had like 1.5 of those elements; RO had fully both. And that's why I can't deal with arguments that Jyn or any of the RO characters weren't as good as the TFA mains -- you can't have a great story like that without great characters. Jyn and co. didn't need to be larger-than-life, especially given the film's darker tone. Instead, they were subtle and felt very real, with layered motivations. They were icebergs, harboring so much of themselves beneath the surface the way real people do. Diving down to explore those depths is a lot more rewarding to me than being resigned to speculation given all of TFA's teasing and winking about Rey, Kylo, Luke, etc.

Rogue One is the film that finally made Star Wars real to me, not just a great time at the movies. I guess it took focusing on folks "behind the scenes" and placing the mysticism of the Force on the backburner to accomplish that. It showed the stakes of the rebellion for everyone from outsiders like Jyn (seeking to forgive her father, seeking a place of belonging and purpose) to the top brass (juggling politics, the lives in the rebellion's service, and the existence of the Alliance itself). Shout out to Krennic as its villain as well for being unabashedly ambitious and petty, like an unfriendly Michael Scott.

TFA was a joy and RO has a couple scenes I'd rather fast-forward through, but I know which one I couldn't stop thinking about after seeing it for the first time -- and still can't stop thinking about!

 

Bravo! Beautifully put.

I probably prefer TFA at the end of the day, though
I love RO, I really do, but I'm just such a huge fan of the Skywalker Saga that I couldn't possibly choose something else over one of those episodes.

If I really have to choose, that is. Luckily, I don't really have to.

 

coervus What an exceptional write-up. Despite my preference for the characters of The Force Awakens and that I enjoy watching that movie more (it really is a joyous delight of a film), it's really occurred to me over the past few days how much more "stick to your ribs" Rogue One is narratively and thematically. It's the movie I find myself thinking about more, and there are far more scenes from that film that stayed with me and that replay themselves through my head. And I'd be lying if I said I haven't been humming or whistling "Your Father Would Be Proud" for the past couple of weeks.

I'm also the same way with the Force and the Jedi. I like them as flavoring in the dish, one mostly made up of ingredients like scoundrels and smugglers and bounty hunters (the underworld elements) and/or a war between a larger entity and underdogs, but not as the main course. I like it as history, lore from a bygone era, with the Jedi as all but extinct in the present day and their presence (when they show up) as something unique and mysterious that has a real meaning and impact behind it, and I like when it's used in a grounded way, a la Chirrut's devout faith. But my preference is to follow the normal men and women (human and alien alike) that live under Imperial rule, in a world where magic knights with laser swords and mind powers won't be coming to save you, but one might just show up at the dark end of a hallway like the image of death himself, and Rogue One delivered that in spades.

Huh. You just might have convinced me to change my mind.

 

I'm totally with you! "Flavoring in the dish" is a great way to put it. I also liked how the Jedi were presented in the old Republic as a peacekeeping order -- their role was more concrete and politically integrated, with less angst about individual Jedi and the nature of the Force. I just love me some politics and like to see the Jedi presented sparingly from outside perspectives because they are this mysterious, monastic order.

 

I really didn't care much for either, but I'd have to say I liked Rogue One better. That's more about disliking TFA than it is about liking RO, though. The plot of TFA struck me as illogical in many places; the characters didn't feel convincing; the dialogue often felt too self-consciously contemporary. My two biggest criticisms of TFA, though, are: 1. the frequently made point that it felt like a re-tread of ANH rather than offering anything really original, and 2. the way it seemed to subvert the victory in RotJ by essentially resetting the situation and the characters to the way they were in the OT. I much prefer the EU's version of post-RotJ events to TFA.

I wasn't crazy about the writing for Rogue One, either, but at least it felt like it was making an attempt to do something interesting. I feel like there's a good movie buried in Rogue One that could have been brought out with a revision of the script, whereas I don't feel that way about TFA. I also really liked how the production design emulated ANH, right down to '70s hair. It had potential. Having said all that, I feel like the movie that we actually got was not particularly good.

In the spirit of being positive, I will say that one thing I unreservedly liked about both TFA and RO was that we had women as central characters, and more diverse casts.

 

I rewatched The Force Awalens right after Rogue One the other night expecting some kind of drop off in my appreciation of one of them compared to the other.

But it didn't happen. My nerves were still shattered by the moment Han shouts his son's name across the oscillator chamber and I was moved to recall Jyn's bittersweet reunion with her father.

I believe I still like TFA better since it's an episode and introduces characters I greatly anticipate seeing again, soon.