main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

  2. Enter the Episode IX Treatment Contest! Details here!

  3. A Rule For Everyone To See:

    The New Films staff strive to create a fun and welcoming environment for all users. This forum is a place for discussing the films, which means that you think the films are worth discussing. Constructive criticism (as deemed by the moderating staff) is welcome and encouraged. Bashing of any kind will not be tolerated anywhere outside The Sanctuary thread. See the new rules thread here. Bans can and will be handed out to anyone who doesn't abide by the forum rules.

Rogue One Rogue One and Return of the Jedi

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Anthology (Released Films)' started by Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid, Apr 21, 2017.

  1. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    I watched Return of the Jedi for the first time since seeing Rogue One last night.

    I was surprised how much Rogue One adds to the second half of Jedi, giving more weight and drama to the events on and above Endor. Han, Luke, Leia, and company are essentially going on the same missions that Jyn and Cassian lead. And while Jyn and Cassian completed the mission, they all died. This adds a level of danger to everything that happens on Endor that just wasn't there for me before.

    There is a clear parallel between the shield gate in Rogue One and the planetary shield in Return of the Jedi. So what used to be more of a Luke / Vader scene suddenly had more meaning to for the rest of the characters on shuttle tyderian as they weight for code clearance. Seeing the line of Rebels walking away from the shuttle into the Endor woods now has the foreboding dread that we've seen how this plays out before in Rogue One.

    When Han and Leia are pinned down at the door to the bunker it visually looks a lot like the last stand of Chirrut Imwe and Baze Malbus. The parallel makes their success on Endor feel much less certain.

    We see so many Imperial Troopers running around on Scariff, I thought it would make the contingent of Stormtroopers on Endor seem very small in comparison. But the way Jedi is shot seems to be doing it's best to make the least amount of Stormtroopers look like the most by using compositions and editing that let the viewer's imagination fill in the rest. Because of that I actually felt like there were more Stormtroopers on Endor watching it this time.

    And the Ewoks are both funnier and more dangerous after seeing Rogue One. Ewoks are such a weird and unexpected sidestep to begin with, but after seeing Scarif play out the Ewoks showing up is really the last thing you'd ever expect and takes the story off the rails it might have been following. And the Ewoks success against the Empire is much more brutal and exciting after seeing Scariff.

    The space battle above Endor also has more weight to it. The victory over Scariff came with a high price. Things like X-Wings hittings the shield gate and all the rebel fighters peeling away from the Endor shield complement each other. And there is an added level of desperation to the Rebel Fleet trying to hold on until the shield is down. Rogue One goes into so much more detail in what it can depict on screen compared to Jedi and show more. I thought Jedi might feel empty in comparison. But Jedi does a great job making the viewer feel like they are in the middle of things with more going on around what is shown. Because of this Jedi feels more like shorthand for what we see in Rogue One. And Rogue One actually accentuates what is going on in Return of the Jedi to make the action and events feel more well rounded and larger in scope.

    And lastly the Death Star II. The Death Star in Rogue One in a lot of way is the Death Star I presented like the Death Star II. The level of precise details and the well defined interiors and overall imperial designaesthetic. Rogue One also makes the Death Star more dangerous after we see what it is capable of at partial power - one good shot can destroy a city and the ensuing cloud of rubble could be an extinction level event. So we have a better idea how many ways the Death Star II can kill. All of Director Krennic's complaining and hunger for recognition makes the Emperor's personal presence on the Death Star II much more important. It's also adds a new level of ironic humor to poor Moff Jerjerrod who isn't nearly arrogant or confident as Tarkin or Krennic and would probably prefer if neither Vader or the Emperor were visiting.

    So I was very pleasantly surprised how much Rogue One added to my enjoyment of Return of the Jedi. Revenge of the Sith helped me to better understand what is going on with Luke, Vader, and the Emperor. I Rogue One does the same thing for the battle of Endor. It give more importance and weight to what Han and Leia are doing on Endor. And better shows how unique the Ewoks. And what the stakes are for the Space battle.

    Rogue One makes Return of the Jedi better.
     
  2. Bob the X-Winger

    Bob the X-Winger Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2016
    I always felt ROTJ was brilliant but Rogue One adds another dimension with grit and realism we just don't see in any of the OT. Out of the fantasy into the action yet it still has the core elements of a Star Wars movie. It does well to make memorable characters which only last one movie while the OT could take its time to develop the characters and throw them into different adventures. Rogue One delved into the mythos of Star Wars in a big way and at least for me it did it a favour.
     
  3. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014

    I forgot to mention Return of the Jedi is my favorite movie. So for Rogue One to make it better really means alot to me.
     
  4. MrMojoRisin

    MrMojoRisin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2005
    I have to agree. It does put more of a serious tone to the Battle of Endor.
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  5. Avnar

    Avnar Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2007
    RO makes every OT film better imo! It also re-enforced to me the fact that Han should have died at the end of Jedi to give it some dramatic weight. As far as the ST - Leia could have been pregnant at the time and didn't know...yet [face_dunno]
     
    Blue 5 and Snafu55 like this.
  6. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014

    I like it. It had the exact opposite effect on me. For me it re-enforced that it was none of the main characters should have died in Jedi. Everyone died in Rogue One. For me it makes everyone living in Jedi so much more earned and shows how good they were and how much the force was with them. It's like the only Star Wars movie where none of the main heros die. (Sure we lose Vader and Yoda but that's different) It's really the biggest victory we've had in Star Wars.
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  7. Cantina Regular

    Cantina Regular Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 24, 2016
    Great post, I'll have to rewatch it again now taking this into account.

    RotJ is my favorite too, followed closely by Rogue One. I'm excited!
     
  8. ChrisLyne

    ChrisLyne Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2002
    Jedi's my favourite so definitely looking forward to giving it a re-watch with this in mind.
     
  9. PCCViking

    PCCViking Force Ghost star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    I wouldn't be surprised if Palpatine planned Endor as a response to Scarif. The one thing he didn't count on was the alliance with the Ewoks.

    Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
     
  10. Jim Smith

    Jim Smith Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2017


    I'm tellin' ya the awesome, wonderful Battle of Scarif in Rogue One makes the Battle of Endor in Return Of The Jedi seem like child's play both literally and figuratively with those silly ass ewoks. I cringe at the sight of those god-awful spray-painted looking Rebel Soldier outfits in Episode 6 now, those ponchos look like throw-up and are especially hideous.
     
  11. Jim Smith

    Jim Smith Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2017


    Return Of The Jedi most certainly should've gone on a much darker path than what ended up on screen. In the original version of Return Of The Jedi Han was going to get killed off, Leia was going to go back to what was left of her people and become their leader, Luke was going to go back to Dagobah and finish his Jedi training with Yoda, there wasn't going to be any ewoks or a Death Star Part Deux and at the end of the film Luke was just going to walk off into the sunset in sort of a spaghetti western kind of a way. That would've been worlds better than the stuff that we ended up getting.
     
  12. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Lawgiver & Casual Flyer star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    @Jim Smith DO NOT stack your posts like that. Edit them together, or wait until someone else posts before continuing. Last warning.
     
  13. Chewies_bandolier

    Chewies_bandolier Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 5, 2002
    Obviously had there been Ewoks on Scarif - those walkers would've been history. ..

    (disclosure: I would eat Ewoks for breakfast in AGFFA).
     
    SmallTatooineSun and Sarge like this.
  14. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014

    Too bad Return of the Jedi doesn't agree with you. I'm glad you like Rogue One. It's interesting that for me the best parts of Rogue One make all three parts of the OT better. I expected it to impact A New Hope, but was really surprised how much it enhanced the second half of Jedi.

    Did you like TFA? At the end of The Force Awakens, Han died, Leia is back with her people (not just the refugees of lost Alderaan, but her people the Rebels) and Luke walked off into a seaside sunset which is where we find him at the end.
     
  15. Jim Smith

    Jim Smith Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2017


    I'll tell you this, The Force Awakens got me back into Star Wars again after many, many years away from it and when it first came out no one defended it more than me when people started saying that it's just a rehash of A New Hope but my mind has been changed about both Episodes 6 and 7, they are derivative of Episode 4. At least Rogue One is original and has a lot of freshness to it. As far as people trying to say that Rey is better than Jyn I'm just not seeing it at all. Rey gives off sort of a jerk vibe while Jyn gives off a tough yet still cute vibe. Rogue One benefits from many repeat viewings while TFA does not in the slightest. Here's to hoping that The Last Jedi isn't The First Order Strikes Back.
     
  16. Darth__Lobot

    Darth__Lobot Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015

    Episodes 1, 6 and 7 are all quite derivative of Episode 4.
     
  17. Jim Smith

    Jim Smith Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2017


    At least The Phantom Menace had some new stuff going for it what with all of the politics of the Trade Federation blockade and whatnot. Although I'd like to kill jar jar binks Episode 1 is pretty good and Darth Maul is outstanding. :)
     
    SmallTatooineSun likes this.
  18. SmallTatooineSun

    SmallTatooineSun Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2016
    Very interesting take Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid
    I haven't watched ROTJ in about a year, and I will have to watch it again with this in mind. I thought RO was excellent and it gave ANH an extra layer of poignancy when you think about all the characters who died to get the plans to Leia, so I'm glad to hear it gives extra weight to ROTJ as well.
     
  19. ZodaEX

    ZodaEX Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2015

    No, Episode 1 wasn't good. This is merely your unenlightened opinion stated as fact.
     
  20. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Lawgiver & Casual Flyer star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Last I checked differences of opinion were allowed here, but baiting/bashing/being off topic is not. Not to mention the irony that your statement is also opinion stated as fact. Hypocrisy is a hard pill to swallow.
     
    TCF-1138 and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  21. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Similarly, can we not with the PT stuff? It's off-topic.
     
    Pro Scoundrel likes this.