main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Rogue One Rogue One Reviews/Reactions thread

Discussion in 'Anthology' started by Pro Scoundrel , Dec 3, 2016.

  1. Dr_Cthulhu

    Dr_Cthulhu Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015
    I was responding to your assertion that the movie wasn't a war film because it didn't portray war as terrible. Perhaps I misunderstood you, were you saying that Rogue One did not portray that ugliness and therefore did not qualify as a war film? Were you saying that grittiness was a requisite of all war films? Grittiness in a war film for me shows us warfare as it truly is, and not neglecting the realistic consequences of actions; but not all war films do this. Do you believe that all gritty war films have an anti-war message - is that what you mean by terrible? The Battle of Britain (1969) is something I would consider a gritty war film - it certainly shows us how terrifying it was for the pilots - but I wouldn't say it is an anti-war film.
     
    Sarge likes this.
  2. Hernalt

    Hernalt Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Can someone explain why were there walking heavy duty tanks at a tape silo with a radio station? I heard they are explained as transports. What are walking heavy duty transport tanks doing at a tape silo with a radio station?
     
  3. Blue 5

    Blue 5 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2017
    This guy totally nails it. Funny K-2 truth meter too lol
     
  4. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    There's no such thing as an accurate portrayal. Portrayals are by definition not accurate. A movie is story telling, and a movie is strong when it's story telling engages it's audience. Period. Everything else is novelty and oddities. It doesn't matter how similar a war scene in a movie is to what actually goes on in war, the audience is not brought any closer to the reality of war. What matters is whether or not the audience can place themselves in the position of the protagonists sufficiently to be engaged by the pursuit of the goal.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Darth__Lobot and Blue 5 like this.
  5. Darth Nave

    Darth Nave Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2015
    I blame Marvel (or more specifically, the first Avengers film) for this mindset.
     
  6. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016


    Sorry for me this just comes across as very simplistic, I think he misses a great deal in his analysis by his eagerness to jump to simple conclusions.

    His talking about "consequences" in the middle of Rogue One for example I think he focuses much too heavily on the mechanics of the plot over the characters who he actually misrepresents. In Jyn's case for example we see that she starts off bitter at her father which feeds into a general bitterness at the anti Imperial cause that we find out is also down to Saw. The message she gets from her father obviously acts to reverse this as does seeing the Deathstar destroy Jedha then actually meeting her father on Eadu reinforces this as he tells her to go ahead with his plans with his dying breath.

    We get the negative revelation of her discovering Cassians true mission but this I think acts to bring the characters motivations to a head. Cassian comments to Jyn that she's now seeing the negative side of her previously self serving world view and likewise she comments to him the negatives of unthinkingly following orders for the cause. These issues don't just come out in the conversation, we see Cassian potentially moving away from his previous mindset by not killing Galen yet ultimately this shift comes too late to save him.

    Now I would agree somewhat with him that Jyn's speech to the Rebels feels a bit out of character(more in its writing than its sentiment) but surely the revelation that Galen was working against the Empire and then his dying words to carry on that fight are an incredibly strong positive motivation for her? that she ultimately ends up not being supported by the rebels clearly backs up there dubious position earlier in the story and she has no problem acting even without them. Then we see Cassian fully make the shift that was built towards previously also disobey his superiors for a cause he believes in.

    He does mention characters more earlier in the video but I think again he makes some very questionable conclusions indeed. Rey as an "active character" for example is something I would very much disagree with, not selling BB-8 to the junk dealer for me is pretty much the only active choice of significance Rey makes in the film. Besides that I find Rey to be an incredibly passive character, she's driven off of Jakku by the first order, picked up by Han and then captured by Kylo, she's shown to be very competent but in situations she's forced into dealing with not to back up active choices she's made as we see with Luke in ANH.

    Jyn does start off as a passive character but this is very obviously linked to his point about "the lie the character believes". In her case this is obviously that a self serving apolitical position is justified and we've seen the reasons for this very clearly setup in the opening sequence and indeed further revealed during the first half of the film. The shift from a passive to an active character is for me clearly the shift from apathy to the anti imperial cause to support of it. That's why I think the removal of stuff like "I Rebel" was likely a positive that came as Jyn's character arc became better understood during editing and reshoots.

    Personally my view is actually that the ending of Rogue One on Scarif is actually a little weaker than what comes before as the lead characters have pretty much completed there arcs and its more the supporting ones that give weight(probably why they were spilt off and given more focus).

    Again I think theres waaaaaaaay much of this kind of stuff on youtube, very simplistic analysis being stated with total belief as absolute fact. I spose the youtube play icon between the two films names does give more of a message I would believe in. :D
     
  7. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2015
    I didn't make the assertion that RO didn't portray war as terrible. I said I didn't get the same message that I've noticed from watching war films. So you misunderstood me. Call it RO's thesis if you will, I don't think it was the film makers thesis to say that war is terrible. Rather, I think there intent was to create a good story.

    I don't believe glorification of war to be a good moral standing. Yes, war is a necessary because we live in an imperfect world. However, a film can focus on the heroic deeds of men as opposed to war is terrible and still be a war film. I am of course, thinking of the term "war film" as a genre of movies. Therefore, a movie can take place during a war but have its main focus or genre on some other aspect of humanity. Take for instance, the movie, "Malt Story" (starring Alec Guinness). The movie takes place during WWII but is really more of drama than a war film. It had a quality of "grittiness" to it that I appreciate more than what we get from modern films.

    Latter I would like to compare RO to movies I consider war films, namely "A Bridge too Far" and "Bridge on the River Kwai". That may allow you some insight into why I was disappointed with RO.
     
  8. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Right. And that's exactly what Rogue One focused on.

    Personally, I think it's a classic war story, but more in the heroic mode than the "war is hell" mode. Though there are mixes of both styles which I found satisfying.

    For me, it's a heroic war film with a dash of spy.
     
  9. Dr_Cthulhu

    Dr_Cthulhu Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015
    I look forward to reading your analysis. It's been ages since I've seen David Lean's film, but A Bridge Too Far is a personal favorite of mine. It was panned by critics when it came out in 1977, and was a commercial disappointment for Warner Brothers, but those who enjoy these kinds of films love it for its attention to detail (even though Bill Goldman does get a number of those wrong).

    http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/a-bridge-too-far-1977
     
    Sarge likes this.
  10. AlexLegroux

    AlexLegroux Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2017
    I went to see Rogue One in January and liked it, I recently got the DVD and I can say that I think Gareth Edwards is a great director. the film adheres to Star Wars style. Having rings visible from the planet's surface is a nice tough but I wonder if this is departing from science fantasy. It struck me that Galen Erso sounds like Liam Neeson. The opening scene with Crennick coming to make Erso Senior work for him on the Death Star is good. I thought that the various robots and aliens in this film were more in line with the Star Wars aesthetic. Forrest Whittaker was well cast as Jyn Erso's stepfather. The battle sequence in the deseter city on the mesa was believable. It was interesting to see something added to the Force through Chirrut Imwe – a blind man who can defeat the sighted.
    I like Baze Malbus, I could believe these characters and as ever they made a good contrast with the sterile obedience of the imperial troops. I was to understand that Cassian Andor and Jyn Erso were supposed to be a couple, or at least this was on the cards. I did not feel this, this is the only neagtive point about the film that I can think of. I liked the music. I thought that Chirrut Imwe's fight choreography was great to watch. Also I enjoyed Darth Vader's appearances, and for some reason his appearance at the end. Having a rivalry between Tarkin and Crennick made watching the imperial scenes more interesting.
    I would give this film 9/10
     
  11. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998

    If you get a chance, read the book A Bridge Too Far by Cornelius Ryan. It explains and clarifies a lot of things that the movie showed us, and reading it gives me even more appreciation for the film.
     
    Dr_Cthulhu likes this.
  12. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2014
  13. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Thread merge.
     
  14. Dr_Cthulhu

    Dr_Cthulhu Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Does that mean the movie had a bad script? :) (Critics of Rogue One like to say that the publication of Catalyst and the various novels and comics is evidence of holes in a bad script. Rubbish, of course, I didn't need the books to enjoy the film but rather so I could enjoy it even more.)
     
    Sarge likes this.
  15. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    No, it just means books are often better at exposition and explanations than films that try to share info in the form of natural-sounding dialog. I think we've all seen films with characters going into exposition mode badly, often starting with the words, "As we all know..." and going downhill from there. SW films usually do it pretty well, as in the original SW when Ben explained to Luke (and the audience) about the Republic, Jedi, and the Force. IMO, R1 did pretty well with expository dialog, especially considering that it didn't have an opening crawl to set up the situation for us.
     
  16. Jim Smith

    Jim Smith Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2017


    I get what you mean about books here. Books can go on for pages about what a specific character is thinking and all the complexities of their thoughts whereas a movie just glosses over them and in the case of the super fast-paced Rogue One doesn't have the time to go over such things like a book has.
     
    Sarge likes this.
  17. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Affirmative. It is a rousing war film in the sense that Objective, Burma! is a freakin spectacular bit of rousing war film, as opposed to Thin Red Line.
     
    Darth__Lobot, Gigoran Monk and Sarge like this.
  18. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Yes I found that odd as well. Rey is very much not in control all the way through TFA both in where she goes and in terms of taking actual action as opposed to reaction. That doesn't happen until she decides to go to seek Luke.

    Jyn is until she gets the message from Galen and then she is engaged from there on.

    In terms of Anakin and Luke as parallels Rey is Anakin using the Force more out of an unknowing natural affinity with no direction. Jyn is actively going against the Empire in next to hopeless odds. Jyn succeeds as Luke though with the help of the Force through Obi-Wan he is able to do the impossible and survive while Jyn is able to succeed but not survive.
     
  19. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Honestly to me I find that a very good example of the kind of criticism that populates much of youtube, it dresses itself up as scholarly analysis but really its pandering to a popular viewpoint, (very often I find this to be the Abrams/Marvel style) and choc full of cherry picking, appeals to authority and leaps of logic.

    Going back to the films for me a lot of the problem TFA has is that its taking elements of ANH and trying to reuse them to tell whats ultimately a very different story. The Deathstar for example makes perfect sense in ANH both as the villians castle for the subverted damsel to be "rescued"(subversion being of course that she takes charge of the escape) and then an obvious threat for the hero to overcome. SKB really doesn't make sense in Rey's story and ends up being a distraction.

    Rey having forces abilities but fearing to use them should really have been the centre of the story, as it is we don't even know she has those abilities until halfway though the film then she rejects them without much reason before being forced into quickly accepting them, again without much reason beyond mere convenience.

    Not that Abrams lacks ability as a writer/director but really I think TFA could be a pretty good case study for a script that has some very fundamental flaws within it. Rogue One I think manages to create a much more successful script by not chasing nostalgia nearly as heavily whatever the likes of RLM might think and being able to craft its own story with a freer hand.
     
  20. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    This is the thing. We can understand what motivates Jyn and why she is doing what she is doing. With Rey it's a mystery even to herself. She partially discovers, rejects then discovers more uses that then discovers more then finally accepts the Force which comes off as being for the plot first and the character second. In story then it's merely circumstantial. Even at the end she is going to Luke for what reason? The pull back to Jakku simply dissolves and whatever she got over is not addressed. It works out the way it does because that is how we know it should because of the stories of Anakin and Luke not because of the story we see with Rey.
     
  21. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Remember to keep this on topic, people. And the topic is not TFA, or Rey's character motivation.
     
  22. Jim Smith

    Jim Smith Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2017


    I'm sick and tired of assclowns telling me what my favorite Star Wars movie should be or what my favorite movie in general should be!
     
    vncredleader, Blue 5 and Grievousdude like this.
  23. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Indeed, for me its a film that depends on nostalgia not just in terms of specific references but rather to add weight to its drama. Rey using the force and indeed searching for Luke only really carry weight because we've seen them do so in previous films.

    I would actually say that whilst Abrams is generally a competent on a micro level, delivering mostly good acting performances and some good action scenes his recent films all tend to have significant flaws at a macro level in terms of telling good character stories that hold up to repeated viewing. Rather than pick this out though this and many other supposed scholarly youtube reviewers(as in they present there questionable opinions as absolute fact) seem for me much happier to pander to his films short term success and indeed become openly hostile to Rogue One as providing an alternative.
     
  24. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    Well - I'm gonna revise my opinion of this movie a bit , saw it last night on dvd , first time since the cinema , and I was rather bored for most of it , the photography is so murky and dull in the first half , rather like the characters and the story isn't much , the 'cameos' feel even more forced now and shoe-horned in to try and liven it up .

    the final battle has some very nice shots but is generally a mess and with little narrative pace or excitement . Sure there's lots of elements to remind us of the OT , but it has little of its own to offer .

    I'd now place it below TPM .

    .
     
    Seeker Of The Whills likes this.
  25. TheRebelFleet

    TheRebelFleet Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2017
    HUGE REVIEW:
    I just rewatched Rogue One on DvD. It was definitely better than my first viewing. I really felt so much better for the first act. Some of the planetary shots were amazing, with the fog and planetary rings. The opening scene still wasn't the best IMO, but it made more sense, connecting with Jyn's story. I really loved the series of planets afterward, like the trading post and the easter eggs (clone turbo tank, etc). The Jedha sequence was really cool as well. It really felt like a diverse, crowded city. I think this movie created a city better than TFA. Another thing I didn't notice first viewing, some of the space shots were spectacular. (The death star with Tarkin, the star destroyer leaving the planet, etc.)

    Moving on, the Eadu section was really nice too. People thought this planet was really bland, but I think it fit into the tone of the movie. I really felt the tension when the X-wings and Krennic were both travelling to Eadu. When the X-Wings fly in with such tragic music, it creates so much tension in that sequence. After the short battle, the conversation between Cassian and Jyn adds so much to both characters.

    The mustafar castle was an unexpected treat. I certainly loved Darth Vader's 'pun;' I believe it fits the Anakin-like character. The Yavin 4 section expands the role of the rebellion, with conflicting leaders and bigger problems than expected. This explains why the fleet is so small in ANH, because people decided to leave the rebellion. It leads up to the action-packed Battle of Scarif :D

    Where do I start. Ground Battle first. The camera shots were so epic here! When the rebels are running through the trees, the camera pans up and focuses on Krennic's shuttle, booming with his theme. Loved that. Also, when Baze and Chirrut almost get trampled by the walkers, with the trees falling down around them. Felt like ESB again. :) I don't know why people think this a duplicate of the Battle of Endor. It felt completely different with different objectives. Although, as the battle progressed, the objectives did feel like a video game. It was like this: distraction, cable, master switch, adjust the comm tower, send the plans.. It sort of felt generic. As usual, more epic camera shots, Blue squadron fighting TIE Strikers, then panning downward, focusing on the battle below. Amazing. The U-Wings and X-Wings flying upward, but then switches to the data files in the citadel. Really flowed together IMO. Soon after, everyone starts going down, I really felt emotional. Even the other unknown rebel soldiers, the intensity begins to build up for the final moments. Even when Jyn is about to transmit the plans, viewers can still see the X-Wings fighting in the atmosphere.

    Space battle - SO EPIC. I was so hyped when the fleet was 'massing outside the shield' It was so awesome to see all of those ships again. (Nebulon-B, GR-75, Correlian Corvettes, Hammerheads, The Ghost, etc.) I think this was better than the Battle of Endor, simply because of the HD quality. I felt like every ship had its own moment. The X-Wings flying around the shield structure, the Y-Wings bombing the gate, Hammerhead destroying the SDs. After repeat viewings, the SDs actually felt like a threat (in the background, a bunch of transports and ships are exploding, with heavy fire penetrating shields.) Although the 2 SDs in the space battle were very stationary, Vader's destroyer recovered the flaw in the space battle. The arrival of Vader's destroyer was so unexpected, showing how the rebels were rushing to retreat to Yavin 4.

    As for overall thoughts, the actors all played their correct roles. Even though the main cast felt vey strong, Saw Gerrera and Baze seemed flat to me after repeat viewings. Bodhi, Jyn, Cassian, Chirrut, and even K2SO felt very realistic. Oh man, the score. Upon my first viewing, I really disliked the score. However, my opinion of the score really changed. I loved the hope theme, Krennic's theme, and the emotional ending, Your Father Would've Been Proud. That soundtrack was the best one, really teared up this time. From the SDs crashing into the gate to the rebel fleet getting destroyed, this made the film spectacular. Overall, I got goosebumps with some of the themes and it perfectly matches the scene.

    Vader's ending scene - you all know how epic that is.

    For all of these reasons, this film ranks second under ESB. It appeals to me in so many ways; I hope some of you agree with me. I know this film IS NOT perfect. This is my opinion and all of you have the right to have different opinions. I just wanted to express it here, on these forums. Thanks for reading. Have a nice day.