Rogue Squadron III: Rebel Strike

Discussion in 'Games' started by the_chosen_two, Mar 21, 2003.

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  1. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    That's just the problem... they didn't make the on-foot sections on par with the flight combat sections. And unfortunately the on-foot sections make up a good percentage of the game (hell, even the bonus "Endurance" level is an on-foot level...) which cuts way into game time in terms of what we buy this series for in the first place... flight combat.

    The on-foot sections aren't even all that well-designed. The controls are clunky as hell for one thing, and that spells doom for platformer-based levels such as we have with many of these on-foot levels. And, to be perfectly honest, even aside from the control issue, these levels just aren't that much fun to begin with. At best, they play like Shadows Of The Empire with slightly improved graphics.

    IMHO, the more time passes and the more I play this game, the more I think it was a mistake to replace so many flight levels with these on-foot levels. If Factor 5 wanted to do a Star Wars platformer, then they should have just done it as a separate game altogether. As it is, there are only a few levels in Rebel Strike that I find myself replaying all that often (mainly the two levels dealing with attacks on Star Destroyers, and the level where you get to fight off dozens of TIEs while covering rescue transports near that Imperial space station) and this is a real shame because the game had such potential to be so much more.

    Now, having played Larry Holland's "Secret Weapons Over Normandy" all the way through over the past week since I bought it, I can honestly say that THAT is the sort of Star Wars flight combat game we ought to be getting. Combine that level of game design with the graphics level of Factor 5's last two Rogue Squadron games, and THAT will end up being a Game Of The Year contender.

    Personally, I think Holland ought to team up with Factor 5 and do a Rogue Squadron game which takes place during the OT timeline, but which doesn't revolve around the big battles from the movies. Dream up a campaign that involves some important goals (my thought is, there would be plenty of room to come up with a fairly deep, wide-ranging scenario in the time between ANH and ESB, as there is supposedly about three years in there to play with) but don't tie them to the battles in either of the movies. We've already seen a few examples of the sorts of things that could have taken place then... Imperial defections, attacks on Imperial research and development (Super Star Destroyers, etc.) searching for a permanent new Rebel base... and that really only scratches the surface.

    The problem with the last couple Rogue Squadron games IMHO is that they've been way too short. Secret Weapons Over Normandy was at least 30-40 levels long, and many of those individual levels took a good while to finish. That's what needs to happen with a good SW flight combat game. It goes back to the old X-Wing games for PC... those were still fairly rudimentary in terms of graphics, but they were some of the most satisfying SW flight games I've ever played because the levels were so numerous and involved. You didn't finish these things in a day or so the first time out, as has become the trend with the Rogue Squadron games.

    Larry Holland and Factor-5 could combine efforts and produce a SW flight combat game that would shame Rebel Strike and its predecessors by comparison.
  2. DarthMak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2001
    star 5
    Larry Holland teaming up with Factor 5 would bring us something that Lucasarts hasn't released in a long time. A Star Wars game that people would still play 10 years from now.

    The X-Wing and TIE Fighter games were awesome because the amount of missions, and the fact that some but not all of the missions tied into the events of the movies.

    It was also more fun conserving laser power or sacrificing it for shields or speed. There was more strategy involved. But obviously if this was done, the controls couldn't be as complicated as the old flight sims if it was released on a console.
  3. Corellian_Outrider Admin FF | Art Curator | Oceania RSA | CR of NSW

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2002
    star 5
    I agree. I still find myself playing XWA each day. I'm starting to be disappointed with the RS series as they are way too short and easy to finish.

    I know the problems with the on-foot missions but what I ment was How could they of made it worthy of a Rogue Title? apart from leaving them out.

    In a way, it reminds me of the good ol' days of the SNES with the Super Star Wars series which I think they should re-release onto the GBA as well as the original SNES version of Jurassic Park....I think I'm going abit off topic now. Also the controls of SOTE isn't that bad. I usually have my controls set at Traditional which I find is better.

    I prefer the SSD mission, Geonosis, the bonus ESB and ROTJ stages but Luke's Campaign...I didn't enjoy it as much as the "true" greatest pilot of the Rebellion, Wedge's Campaign.

  4. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    "I know the problems with the on-foot missions but what I ment was How could they of made it worthy of a Rogue Title? apart from leaving them out."


    I honestly don't think they could have made them worthy of the Rogue Squadron series, for the simple matter that the Rogue Squadron series is a flight combat game. Wedging platformer levels in there is just naturally going to detract from the whole reason that people buy Rogue Squadron games. These games are already short enough as it is, but to then make at least a third of the levels on-foot missions just adds to that problem.

    However, at the very least they could have made the on-foot levels control better, and they could have animated them better. Again, they feel like Shadows Of The Empire with slightly updated graphics.

    Personally, I think Factor 5 should have just made a seperate SW platformer game and left this stuff out of Rebel Strike altogether. It doesn't fit, and honestly it's not that much fun in the first place.
  5. DarthMak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2001
    star 5
    I've actually gotten bored with Rebel Strike. I find myself playing the Atari arcade games on the disc more. Speaking of the arcades, still no code for ROTJ. They release codes every 2 weeks, but there are none this week from what i've read. What's going on?
  6. Corellian_Outrider Admin FF | Art Curator | Oceania RSA | CR of NSW

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2002
    star 5
    Maybe they holding back like they did with the N1 Naboo Fighter code for the original Rogue Squadron.

    Also the on foot parts feel more SuperStarWars feel than SOTE
  7. Lando_Bubrissian7 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 1
    If there was a Rogue Squadron IV what would you include?

    For, me I think it would be cool that they make the on-foot missions more exciting by being able to walk aboard an Imperial Star Destroyer as seen in A New Hope. It would be an alternate story where the rebels survive the on-board invasion of the stormtroopers aboard the Tantive VI. Princess Leia would then board the star destroyer and take control of it. And with luck Factor 5 could come up with a way to make it pilotable.

    Rouge Squadron IV should be like the "lost missions", that mainly consist of alternate endings. And should make the missions more long scale and make the hangar area more lively like they did in the first one with all the pilots wandering about.

    The game should also include a 4-player multiplayer.

    And Finally it would also be cool if you could make your own missions in the game.

  8. Patrick Russell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    I'd rather they dispense with the on-foot missions altogether and just go ahead and make a SW platformer instead of mucking up a flight combat game with half-assed platformer levels.

    For Rogue Squadron 4, I'd like to see Larry Holland join Factor 5 and that they make a game with a large number of deep, involved levels held together by a strong plot. IMHO, the best time period to be mined for this would be the interim between ANH and ESB, with the focus being on Rogue Squadron efforts to not only assist the Rebellion in finding and relocating to a new Rebel base, but also to take the fight to the Imperials in the form of flying cover on supply raids, hit-and-run missions against Imperial garrisons and space platforms, disrupting of research and development of new Imperial ships and weapons, etc. There are so many possibilities in that time-frame, and IMHO a fantastic battle campaign could be dreamed up out of these possibilities. Avoid all attempts to "do the big movie battles" as always seems to be the case in these games, because it merely limits the possibilities for a solid, stand-alone campaign.
  9. StarDude Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2001
    star 5
    For me, the only problem with the last two RS games is the lack of storyline. I loved the first one. It had, like, only two levels inspired by the movies. The rest were entirely original and followed a storyline.

    However, in the new games it seems to be nothing but rehashes of the movies.
  10. Corellian_Outrider Admin FF | Art Curator | Oceania RSA | CR of NSW

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2002
    star 5
    Have you tried listening to the Audio Cemmentry of the levels? that Deception at Destrillion(the one with the energy walls corridors and the Tie Hunter part .) They describe what they wanted the level to be but the facility part had to be scrubbed as it would of been to big to do. so they just but that it was already packed away as they found out they were coming.

    Rogue Squadron 4 Should be based on the X-Wing Novels as they done the Movies to death by now. Novels are a prime example of how they can do it as well as expand into the EU and if they worried about space on the disc...then they should break it up into sections and put in on multiple discs like Rez Evil.

    If they want to make it like RS3 then they should make a 3D edition of the Super Star Wars series or a Wraith Squadron series instead for that and keep Rogue Squadron to the Skies which they ment to be. An Awesome level would be when the Rebels take Coruscant from the Imperial. Flying through the city would be fun as well as a revamped Skyhook Battle from SOTE
  11. Lando_Bubrissian7 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 1
    This Larry Holland guy sounds important. What did he

    do that made him so special? Because now, I just blame

    Bush and those budget cuts for the clunky performance

    of the GC generation of RS.



    The music in the game is way off from the real movie

    scenes and even the movie scenes shown are musically

    altered.(i.e Battlefield Hoth; watch&listen to ESB when luke

    disables the AT-AT) . Most sound effects (i.e bomb

    explosion;RSII:my favorite one)

    sound different in each new game. And what really

    takes the cake, the landspeeder without laser

    cannons?!!?


    If Larry Holland was responsible for the Super Star

    Wars series, we could sure use him now if F5 decides

    develop RSIV.I really miss the multi-stage-long-scale

    levels. Was Larry Holland part of the SOTE project?

    Plus aside from the pain of not being able to find the

    ROTJ Arc. code it seems they also didn't keep their

    promise on being able to pilot the blue Naboo

    Starfigther proto-type.


    And I think everyone was real teed off about replacing

    the C-stick camera functions for some fancy gun

    slingin across Hoth's battlefield.

    There needs to be more of an Indy style to the series.

    More missions should be like adventurous to me like

    Dagobah(without the timer,accuracy,enemies destroyed

    etc). And if there going to do on-foot missions again

    they'll need that miracle touch from Larry that makes

    the games more replayable and enjoyed rather than

    rushed and stressed.

    We know every Star Wars fan should and will deserve

    better...after Bush is out of office and Larry Holland

    comes to Factor 5 and shows em' how its done. Yeah!
  12. Ton_G Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 4
    Larry Holland was repsonsible for bringing us the X-Wing series, a most excellent flight series! Even now there is an update (fan made) for X-Wing Alliance!

    Ooh.. this post in # 1987 for this thread, my Birthyear!
  13. DarthMak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2001
    star 5
    And Finally it would also be cool if you could make your own missions in the game.

    Amen. Just random dogfights would add to the replayability. No strategy or protecting capital ships, just Tie Fighter and X-Wing mayhem. It's frustrating that they haven't already included that.
  14. Shadowknight1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2003
    star 6
    I don't know about the rest of you, but I still play this, because I actually have someone to fight in multiplayer with. Plus, if you activate AI for multiplayer, then set the time limit, you can kill as many TIE's as you want. ;)
  15. DarthMak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2001
    star 5
    Well, I just got a Cube a couple months ago, and I only have 1 controller, plus i'm the only person I know who plays this. 8-}
  16. YoungJedi11 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    I wish they would have levels that actually involved large amounts of capital ships. And, they should improve the capital ship fighting. The Star Destroyer vs. Home One in the Battle of Endor is less than overwhelming, just because the turbolaser blasts kind of speckle on the hull. It's not hitting a shield, or doing hull damage, it's just like someone chucked a pebble at it. Small pet peeve.
  17. Lando_Bubrissian7 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 1
    I know what you mean. The visual effects need to improve heavily. I mean, the explosions are better but the hits on the capital ships need to be more realistic. In fact the ships should have "marks" where it was hit.

    And speaking of visual effects, the game needs to

    have a more cinematic interface. Since Rouge Leader

    Factor 5 has been making the game fast and

    overrealistic. I'm hoping when they do IV they'll make

    the action in the game more like the movies themselves.

    I mean like, despite the graphics of the first RS,

    that was the closest cinematic experience to me ever.

    Maybe people are just interested in sharp, speedy

    games these days. I don't know, but if they say the

    games "put you in the movies" they need to take it

    more literally.

    One day I hope Factor 5 will make an e-mail address that just doesn't ask if you want the job or work in the projects, but request new ideas to their ideas if they continue the Rouge Squadron series.

    And it would also be cool if you could do battle inside the capital ships both in-flight and on foot.

    Either Holland joins now or Eggebrecht will probably be getting so much hate mail, it'd be worse than Jar-Jar.
  18. Lando_Bubrissian7 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 1
    I know what you mean. The visual effects need to improve heavily. I mean, the explosions are better but the hits on the capital ships need to be more realistic. In fact the ships should have "marks" where it was hit.

    And speaking of visual effects, the game needs to

    have a more cinematic interface. Since Rouge Leader

    Factor 5 has been making the game fast and

    overrealistic. I'm hoping when they do IV they'll make

    the action in the game more like the movies themselves.

    I mean like, despite the graphics of the first RS,

    that was the closest cinematic experience to me ever.

    Maybe people are just interested in sharp, speedy

    games these days. I don't know, but if they say the

    games "put you in the movies" they need to take it

    more literally.
  19. Corellian_Outrider Admin FF | Art Curator | Oceania RSA | CR of NSW

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2002
    star 5
    Also longer and more missions.

    The multiplayer is fun but notice that some of it you can't pick to be the T-47 Snowspeeder except in T-47 only levels where some of the could be suitable for it. That's the same with single player. and you can't pick the landspeeder for the races.

  20. YoungJedi11 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    I wish two players could be in the same ship (like the Millenium Falcon), because that's really cool. I love the Asteroid Field level.
  21. Lando_Bubrissian7 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 1
    Nowadays, the best thing that Rebel Strike has that can make TFN even better is its screenshots. I remember the first time I ever played the demo at a store, when I got to the air evacuation part of Battlefield Hoth I was curious about the limits of how low to the ground you could go since it seemed I was pretty high up there. I dove down and the X-Wing did a complete cartwheel over the frozen surface of Hoth. Ah, the possible captions that could be said for that shot if I could do that again. To me that was the most hilarious bug in the game I've ever seen.

    So in the future when there's technology that connects the GC to the net or computer w/screenshot capabilities, Rebel Strike and TFN would be good friends real fast.
  22. Corellian_Outrider Admin FF | Art Curator | Oceania RSA | CR of NSW

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2002
    star 5
    that would be fun, I also wonder if they make a game that puts you in the Bridge of many captial ships. Whats your favourite craft to use in RS3? mine is Jedi Starfighter, TIE Bomber, Falcon and X-Wing. It's a shame that B-WIng doesn't recharge it's shields
  23. Lando_Bubrissian7 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 1
    My favorite craft would be the Jedi Starfighter(love that sound muting SFX!),Jango's Slave I, Millenium Falcon, and the TIE Hunter, which to me is the best thing since the TIE Phantom (Rebel Assault II).

    Capital ships rock! and I always wanted to pilot on the bridge of a Imperial Star Destroyer. The primary would be the laser turrets and the secondary would be bombs, the special would be the ion cannons.
  24. Vader_vs_Maul Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2003
    star 3
    It's a shame that B-WIng doesn't recharge it's shields

    Dude, that would have made you invincible.
  25. Corellian_Outrider Admin FF | Art Curator | Oceania RSA | CR of NSW

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2002
    star 5
    That's the whole point isn't it? :D ;)



    Also, there really is a ROTJ arcade, but you need a passcode to get it... which means we have to wait till Lucasarts gives it out.
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