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Lit Rooting for the Empire (or certain Imperials)- why?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Iron_lord, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    I think at least one Star Trek show did this.

    But yeah, stun blasters are tragically underused. Particularly by police: even the dystopia of Pyscho Pass has their guns set to stun as the default and they have to get permission to use the kill mode.

    Or Jedi even: what is more civilized about hacking someone's arm off compared to stunning them?

    I'm not convinced: Scholar Visari oppressed and killed more Helghan than their "enemies" ever did. Not to mention that starting a war over grievances of the distant past is usually considered unjustified.
     
  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The Empire were building the Death Star before there ever was a rebellion- as we can see in Revenge of the Sith.

    And there was a consistant pattern of Imperial atrocities predating the emergence of the modern Rebellion in The Force Unleashed. Actions like the Firrerreo Genocide:

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Firrerreo_Genocide

    spring to mind- a planet's population are declared "subhuman" - most are exterminated by a deadly bioweapon, the rest put into stasis for eventual selling into slavery. This was carried out by Hethrir- on Vader's orders.
     
  3. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Just ask the people of Utapau, they got enslaved within the first 15 minutes or so of the Empire getting declared.
     
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  4. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Because we all wish the idea of a benevolent dictatorship actually worked.

    If we were the dictator.

    That, and bad guys are always cooler than the heroes.
     
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  5. Karohalva

    Karohalva Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 27, 2008
    Because I'm a condescending patriarchal bigot.
     
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  6. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Not always.
     
  7. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    I've never really rooted for the Empire, but I've always found them more entertaining.
     
  8. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Is this thread really on its third page and GrandAdmiralJello hasn't chimed in it?
     
  9. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    You aren't the only one who is surprised by that, Coop, not by a long shot.
     
  10. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2009
    People root for the empire because their is a general concensus that "Incompetants should not rule".

    And the Rebellion and its sucessors have been generaly incompetant.

    Even between LOTF and FOTJ, the incompetant senators who were out manuverd by Jacen's lawyer bot into giving him near absolute power?

    Still in power in FOTJ. A Lawyer robot. The C3PO of law...just let that percilate in your brain.

    These are the sucessors of a civilization that lasted 25,000 years? Ha!
     
  11. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Same here- and a lot of the responses do seem to be rooted in a very real hatred of the Jedi & the Old Republic & the Rebellion.

    Which IMO is a bit like rooting for Stalin because you hated Tsarist Russia, and Russia after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
     
    Jedi Ben likes this.
  12. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    One thing I've honestly never gotten about the stun blasters in Star Wars; anytime a blaster is fired on stun setting, does it always fire that blue circle? Are some blasters made without those?
     
  13. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2007
    As Havac mentions, Star Destroyers are an excellent reason :p Tie Interceptors too. AT-AT Walkers anyone?

    But on a film character front I always had a lot of respect not only for Palpatine, the best villian ever, but guys like Piett and Veers who were excellent officers doing their duty. Yeah they aren't on the 'right' side but that doesn't make admiration for them unworthy. I would imagine an officer like Isaac Brock was viewed as a villian by Americans during the war of 1812 but it was really just a matter of war being multifaceted and there being heroes on both sides. :p

    Then the EU brought us Thrawn & Pellaeon, Kir Kanos, Soontir Fel and many more. Some were villians, some were anti heroes, but all were awesome.

    Pellaeon remains my favorite Star Wars character period, including film and TV.

    All should idolize him and treat him with reverence. After all he saved the Empire.

    I suspect you just didn't summon him correctly. He should be along shortly :p
     
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  14. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2009
    I don't believe so, the "republic" suffers the same problem comicbook versions of real countries suffer. Super heros can't justifiably exist without the governing authority being criminaly incompetant, or woefuly inept.

    While Marvel Earth has the benefit of being some what grounded by Real Earth(they have to function) due to the writers living on it, the Galaxy Far Far Away has no such stabilizing influence. Thus The "republic" has to be stupider and more inept to give justification to the exsitance of the O3 and the jedi, and tolerant of their shenanigans.

    Add to the fact most humans will choose any order is opposed to chaos, the Empire starts looking good in comparison.

    long story short, the writers make Luke and company look good by making all alternatives (the goverment) look worse.
     
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  15. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I suspect that if Jello were to draw parallels, they would be along the lines of:

    "For the Emperor, think the Hollywood version of the Tsar- Kindly Old Man manipulated by Corrupt Rasputins. Only much nicer, and someone who actually overturned the previous, incompetent rule"
    "For the rebels, think Bolsheviks- proclaiming their desire for freedom, but their leaders secretly desiring to rule tyrannically"
    "For the rebel leadership- Bail is Lenin- the founder- Bel Iblis is Trotsky- the general, and Mon Mothma is Stalin- the nonentity who eventually sidelines Trotsky and rules brutally- only unlike in history, her career was cut short"

    But I may be misjudging Jello.
     
  16. fett 4

    fett 4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    The Americans were the bad guys in that war they invaded Canada :)
     
  17. fett 4

    fett 4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    Common who cannot route for Gary :) he hits Darth Vader right were he lives

     
  18. cthugha

    cthugha Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2010
    QFT.

    Because this is fiction, and we know the good guys will win anyway, it's more fun to "root for" the bad guys. It's a kind of reading against the grain; both the plot and the narration are obviously biased towards the "good guys", so taking the perspective of the bad guys is a more stimulating intellectual exercise for people who like to do more with fiction than just go along with what the author tells you to think. And that, in turn, is essentially what fandom is all about, isn't it?

    Similarly, if I ever were to argue for the merits of an authoritarian government in this context, it would be exactly that: an intellectual exercise, a (more-or-less serious) effort to understand the "other side".
     
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  19. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Understanding an authoritarian government really isn't hard though, it generally goes something like this:

    We're in charge, do what we say or get screwed over.

    Simple, brutal and has generally been quite effective.
    Quite so. Though, if Lord Vetinari existed, a lot of people would easily hand over power to him.
     
  21. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Let's also not forget that without the bad guys Star Wars wouldn't have had metal bikinis.
     
  22. fett 4

    fett 4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    Not quite so simplistic. To use Ancient Rome as an example, the common people supported Caesar because despite everything else he generally catered to there interests and betterment. He was also more inclusive with brining in Non Romans and Gaul s at that into the Senate.
    The Republicans/Senators against him despite their high ideals and decelerations of fighting tyranny, were generally a rich clique, who kept power just for themselves and were very remote from the ordinary people which they regarded with disdain.

    It happens throughout history. In the American Revolution Patrick Henry declared give me Liberty or give me death. At the same time he was saying one of his slaves was escaping to freedom at the British lines. It's all a matter of perspective and where one is.
     
  23. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
  24. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
  25. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 31, 2000
    As far as the bad guys having cool capital ships like star destroyers, the republic had them before the government transition ;)
     
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