Lit Rooting for the Empire (or certain Imperials)- why?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Iron_lord, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Antlers Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2012
    star 1
    Oh, I love Impies, but my interest in them didn't blossom until reading The Thrawn Trilogy.
    Love of boots, English gents, and uniforms aside, I found them fascinating in the EU because you never know what might happen to them. Luke, Leia, Han? They're gonna' be fine. You are not invested in them because they're our heroes - they are not going to die (not for a long while, anyway).

    However, you are always at the edge of your seat with the Imperials. They could collapse, become injured, or die at any sentence. Their struggles, desires, and actions seem more genuine. They just feel a little more real.
    RebelJoseWales likes this.
  2. Likewater Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    So you would love a star wars novel written by Harry Turtledove like his Darkness series?
    DarkEagle likes this.
  3. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    I had a similar though myself, though you found a much better way to say it.

    I've noticed the more black and white a story is, the stronger the attempts to switch black and white in the fandom - the greater the intellectual challenge, the more fun it is.


    He killed people 1/3 of his own population. He had people tortured to death for wearing glasses. I doubt there is anything in Cambodian history that can justify that.

    Plus, I have to disagree - even if old kings were theoretically absolute, in practice they had all kinds of limitations due to competing factions and the sheer impracticality of enforcing all their stupid rules with the methods of communication they had available.
  4. Likewater Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2009
    star 4
    And modern dictators have no practical limitation?

    They don't have internal party politics? Rivials, or more powerful orginizations they are beholden to?

    Yes due to media they reach more of their population to easier whip them into a frenzy, but how long does that last? Do you think the lastest member of the Kim Dynasty in North Korea could rule without his generals? Or the North Korean communist party?
  5. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    It's like Jello is somehow trolling this thread by not posting.
  6. RebelJoseWales Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2008
    star 3
    At this point, I'm starting to worry that he's been in an accident or something.
  7. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4
    Who wouldn't want to be Palpatine's mind-controlled meat puppet for all eternity?

    Beats having to go to work.
  8. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    I tried my best to get him here :p
  9. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    It just seems odd that you would invoke facts about the Republic having Star Destroyers when we had no clue they did back when these films first arrvied. Thus there was no reason for anyone to think that an Imperial Star Destroyer would have had anything to do with the Republic.

    Edit: Oops, didn't realize I double posted here. My apologies.
    Last edited by Robimus, Feb 3, 2013
  10. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    To be fair to @rumsmuggler I can see why someone might have thought that a "Star Destroyer" was a neutral thing and that the reason they were specifically identified as Imperial ones was because there could also have been Republic ones.
  11. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    Which I think might be the reason the Sepies don't get nearly the amount of support that the Empire does - the clones and their walkers and star destroyers are cooler than battle droids, hover tanks, and doughnut battleships.
    Zorrixor likes this.
  12. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Well naturally, wouldn't you rather be invaded by those cool looking triangles instead of having to look at one of those stupid looking doughnuts above your city? :p
  13. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    They are facts since we know now that they did have star destroyers before the empire was declared. If I said it in the films board it would be odd, but not here. Also if your age is correct, then you were three years old at the most when star wars came out , so there isn't much of an age gap between us for you to pull star wars superiority on me. :)
    Last edited by rumsmuggler, Feb 3, 2013
  14. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    I'm not pulling any superiority on you, just trying to understand why you would make such a statement. It seemed to me like you were trying to say people shouldn't be Imperial fans of the due to them having Star Destroyers because, in timeline terms someone else had them first. That didn't make sense to me.

    The question at hand is why do some people root for the Empire. A lot of people do because of the cool tech we were introduced to in the OT, back when the only people we knew with Star Destroyers were the Empire. What we know now isn't that relevent, at least in my case, to the reason I first became a fan of the Empire. I can't really turn back the clock to 1978 and insert prequel information into the scenario.

    Canonically speaking the Sith cruisers(at least the one Nihilus was commanding) from KotOR also dead ringers for Star Destroyers, thousands of years before the Republic was around. So they had them first anyway. :p
    Last edited by Robimus, Feb 3, 2013
  15. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    I'm well aware of what the question was and I gave my answer in an earlier post.
  16. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    This isn't a debate about timelines, continuity and canon though. Thus my confusion.

    My apologies. I was not trying to start a fight with you.
  17. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    No worries. I wasn't trying to start one either.
  18. Darth_Garak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 3
    Really, page 5 and no Jello? Or does he think it would be redundant to post here?

    And yes I like all the cool tech the Empire has. I also find it silly to think of every person in it as evil so a lot of them must have had a good reason to join up. The Empire did have proper peace keeping missions as well (see the Ripoblus and whats-their-name conflict in TIE fighter). I admit that I want some novels centered on the Empire - the Fel and Sunber arcs in the comics were awesome.
  19. cthugha Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2010
    star 3
    Also we rarely get a believable Separatist perspective in canon, whereas the EU basically began with an Imperial perspective. (Of course this also might have sthg to do with the fact that the Separatists are usually presented as Palps' puppets and nothing more.)

    Which is another reason why we need that Count Dooku novel, like, right now.
  20. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Possibly he's said all he has to say the numerous times the topic's come up in the past.

    For example:

    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...cus-on-the-most.27969440/page-4#post-27973428

    Last edited by Iron_lord, Feb 4, 2013
  21. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    He wasn't replaced, it was because a young religious fanatic refused his offer of Palpatines help and instead persuaded his Intern to throw him down a reactor shaft :)
    Last edited by fett 4, Feb 4, 2013
  22. Mechalich Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2010
    star 4
    Even when we do get a believable Separatist perspective (other than Grievous anyway), and there are some in TCW and other places, it is generally rather clear that the Separatists simply aren't very good at this whole 'warfare' thing. That is ultimately as it should be, since the CIS is essentially a group of corporations trying to buy their way to victory rather than fight.
  23. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    I too find the lack of Jello disturbing.

    Because there is always room for Jello.

    Well that, as well as a handful of political idealists and a gaggle of pyschopaths for hire - neither of which are that skilled militarily.

    You know, people often complain about the stupid tactics seen in the Clone Wars, but it kind of makes sense when you look at who is actually leading both sides - only a handful of judicial and militia leaders have actual military experience, and even then that was on a much smaller scale. Real world militaries have certainly become complacent in less time.

    Heck, Star Wars in general features long stretches of peace between its major wars or groupings of wars, so it is pretty easy to see why Star Wars military doctrine is often very hidebound.
  24. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Lords, ladies, citizens, and droids: why do we support the Empire?

    In short, we do so because it is the right thing to do. Our Emperor courageously risked his life to save the galaxy from slavery at the hand of alien corporatists during the Clone Wars. In due gratitude, we vested him with the imperial dignity and pledged him our eternal fealty.

    Why do we oppose neo-Separatists? Because they seek to fan the flames of division for their own petty gain, at the sacrifice of the public good.

    Why do we oppose the Jedi? Because they sought to overthrow the Senate and depose the Chancellor when their unaccountability and power was challenged.

    Why do we oppose the Rebellion? Because their leaders, jealous of our Emperor, steal from us and ours in order to aggandize greater power to themselves.

    Why do we support the Emperor? Because without his beneficence, civilization would falter, fall, and flounder.

    Vivat imperator in aeternum. Fidemus in nostro principe nunc, in futurum, et in perpetuo.
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Feb 4, 2013
  25. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Ah, he was just biding his time for a grand entrance. Bravo, Jello!