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ROTJ is not a children's movie

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by The_Abstract, Dec 11, 2003.

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  1. The_Abstract

    The_Abstract Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 16, 2002
    One of the silliest criticisms I've seen on this board is the complaint that Return of the Jedi was squarely aimed at the pre-teen set. Most people will point to the decision to use Ewoks instead of Wookies as the main evidence.

    I would just like to highlight a few simple plot points and scenes that refute this long standing myth.

    1. The Han/Leia relationship. This is carried over from the events in ESB. Leia's determination to find Han and go into Jabba's lair is something children won't understand. Leia could be looked at as Han's good friend, but every adult knows the real reason why she went back. Which leads us to...

    2. Jabba and his metal bikini fetish. This scene is probably the most disturbing in all three movies. The Big Tongue is hopefully beyond the grasp of a child's imagination. Lord knows what she suffered once captured by Jabba.

    3. Oola the Dancer. I'm not too sure how strippers bring in the kiddie demographic. Anyone want to help on this?

    4. Luke vs. the Rancor. We have a Gamorrean guard being eaten on screen (accompained by squeals of mercy). Then we have Luke's strike at the control panel which brings the steel gate right down on the Rancor's head. He actually has a sympathetic ending thanks to his heart-broken master.

    5. The Sarlaac Pit. Being digested over the course of a 1000 years is barely comprehensible by adults. Kids cannot imagine the suffering of a victim of the Sarlaac.

    6. The choking of Jabba. This is a very graphic scene and made more realistic by the wonderful job of the ILM puppet masters. PG-13 at best.

    7. Yoda's death and disappearance. This is another tough scene to watch. Kids were definitely saddened by this. The death could prompt a discussion of the afterlife but most parents would platitude this to death.

    8. Vader's conflicted feelings. The emotional torture that Vader goes through has been highlighted by the prequels and the full impact probably won't be felt until after Episode III. It's a whole mess of a father's regret over his best and coming to terms with love and family again. His death scene grows more poignant with time.

    9. The Ewoks. When we first meet them they are the perpetrators of the net trap of Han, Chewie, Luke, et al. So we know they have some intelligence. They don't mind thrusting spears in Han's face. Then we find out our heroes' ultimate destiny is part of a delectable feast of human flesh. That's not exactly marketable, right?

    10. The Throne Room Duel. The ultimate father/son conflict of all time complete with arrogant taunting, foolish heroism, chopped-off hands, evil-cackling, and Force-lightning. And the Emperor's yellow teeth. *shudder*


     
  2. PadmeAmidalaLover

    PadmeAmidalaLover Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 4, 2003
    I think ROTJ is my favorite SW film, for many reasons. What pisses me off more than anything is when I hear any moron complain about the ewoks. PEOPLE JUST DON'T GET IT WITH THE EWOKS AND WHAT THEY REPRESENTED! having the ewoks in the return of the jedi showed the irony of this huge empire that was invincible fall to the most unlikely of people. if you seriously wanna think about it, the rebels had as much chance of winning as the ewoks did. but thats the irony of the story. thats the brilliance of it. too bad a lot of you people dont see that.

    The Ewoks inhabit the land, yes they are primative but this is their land, they know their way around it. Compare the US to the Veitcong. Why did the US lose the war in Vietnam or Korea? Is it because they were better equiped?

    The Empire being in the Ewok planet illustrates what is wrong with the Empire and why most everyone in the galaxy hates them. They practically took over thier planet, the Ewoks have a reason not to like them. They have motive to fight back.

    About the booby traps, think about it, go to any jungle inhabited by humans, traps are all over the place, wheter it is to catch trespassers or other animals. The Ewoks probably had those things in place before hand.

    They were sort of symbolic. The Ewoks just like the more advanced cultures in the galaxy had reason to hate the Empire and wanted to revolt. And finally, study history. The American Revolution, the French Revolution, etc. Look at the fall of any Empire, or any revolution. It happened because of people being opressed, the empire getting to big. Most of these revolution was accomplised by the "little guy." it was done by the underdogs. The Ewoks just show that.

    Anyone who dares calls this a weak end to the trilogy is wrong.

    EV Edit: Altered the very last part. The last part was not necessary.
     
  3. Blackthorpe

    Blackthorpe Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Well said, PadmeAmidalaLover!
     
  4. GrandAdmiral_Frank

    GrandAdmiral_Frank Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 26, 2003
    I showed it to a 7 year old this summer who had not seen it. Excellent movie for everyone, SW is for everyone.
     
  5. Errant_Venture

    Errant_Venture Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2002
    But ROTJ is a kids movie. Look at some of the kid movies you see in todays society, they are worse than ROTJ. I do admit that the inclusion of Ewoks instead of Wookies does make it easier for ROTJ to be a kids movie. Perhaps back then it was not designed to be, but in todays society, it is a kids movie.

    Also, before I go to work. For the record, the Empire needs to go back to Endor and eliminate the Ewok race. ;)
     
  6. Spacehunter24

    Spacehunter24 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2003
    ROTJ is a kid's movie, just as much as the other two. Heck, I was four years old when I saw it in the theater, and I loved it. And the whole scene in the rancor pit was one of my favorites.
     
  7. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Many of those points are not beyond the PG guidelines.

    And while the Han and Leia relationship is somewhat beyond kids due to the more mature presentation of it in ESB, it's presentation in ROTJ is rather childish at times.
     
  8. Dark Lady Mara

    Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 1999
    I'm not entirely convinced any of those points make RotJ not a kids' movie. There are plenty of kids' movies that can be understood on one level by kids and another by adults because symbolism was included that will go over the kids' heads. Harry Potter is like that.

    Also, kids won't catch the innuendo of the Jabba's palace scene or the strippers. Think of all the Disney movies that have subtle allusions to sex in them, like the animated phallus that was slipped into The Little Mermaid or the innuendos in Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Even Toy Story had a sex joke or two, I think.
     
  9. DarthLazious

    DarthLazious Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2003
    Great break down Abstract and I think ROTJ should have been rated PG-13 instead of PG.
     
  10. NeoBaggins

    NeoBaggins Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2003
    I always remeber thinking to myself, DANG! Over athousand years. Man, thats harsh and unerving. I always pictured its saliva and insides eating away at the body hurting and burning yet organically keeping you alive in a living hell. Not for the tykes. No. Yet, and still, with the darkness of the final duel (Darkest feel in the saga, and it should be.) and the performance of Ian as the Emperor. I cant ignore the kiddygoround Lucas thought up the minute Yoda became famous. If one Puppet is this popular then acuzillian must be magic. No, George. MaxReebo, and the leathery, yet loved, Crumb. Ewoks (Swore I saw a zipper.) and the like were mosdef directed at children. It continued over into Ep1.

    There may be a balance though. For each puppet and Ewok, there is a mood of danger and dispare for our heroes to the very end. Probably the only thing I can say about the Wookies is that it would have been far more believable for them to overthrow the troops. But Lucas wanted to display the premit..Oh, wait. That still could have been achieved with a tribre of Wookie. Other than that the greatest STAR-FIGHT ever and a very moody and sad final duel balances the force (Pun intended)
     
  11. Darth_Sunder

    Darth_Sunder Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2001
    Recall a time I once got really ripped and was studying the ROTJ poster. (1983 version)

    And I have to agree. Its NOT a kids movie. Look at the poster and images.

    Bloated apendage, a scantially clad woman, drug instrument, a stairway to heaven leading to darkness, and a cute teddy bear.

    I mean sex sells, but come on!

    I'm telling ya, there's a method to Lucas's madness!

    :p
     
  12. Onizuka

    Onizuka Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2003
    Well it's for everyone. I don't know. Somebody is just afraid of something stupid. Last night I showed Batman Returns to my friend and he said it's too scary.
     
  13. darkmole

    darkmole Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2000
    I was 12 when ROTJ came ou and I understood everyone of Abstract's points. Never under-estimate the kids!

    p.s. except the bit about the 1000 years. At the time, I thought it funny in a kind of comic strip kind of way. In fact, I still do.
     
  14. Twilek_Moi

    Twilek_Moi Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2003
    ROTJ is my fave SW movie. I don't think it's childish at all. The endfight with the hand being chopped of and all that, that's not really childish IMO. I love the movie for that fight, the spacebattle and the Jabba scenes. I love teh Max Rebo Band. I love them to much actually. I used to fastforward the video to see the show Lyn Me, Rappertunie, Max Rebo, Greeata and the rest gave. I even knew the lyrics, now that's sad...
     
  15. JediOverlord

    JediOverlord Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2000
    I was six when ROTJ first came out,and I've always enjoyed it,even at that young age. I never squirmed at the violence,but Leia's metal bikini made me feel uncomfortable,at least until I got older :D.
     
  16. alpha_red

    alpha_red Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2003
    but Leia's metal bikini made me feel uncomfortable,at least until I got older .

    It's so sad that adults underestimate how horny we kids can be...I saw my first porno when I wasn't even 10 years old.

    Yes, of course I went behind the back of authority. A lot of the things I've done that people would object to have brought me greater understanding of the world.

    Other than that, great breakdown, Abstract. ROTJ is a kid's movie on one level, but on another level, it is a cinematic masterpiece of the highest caliber. Screw everyone who can't see that. They'll probably work at McDonald's for the rest of their lives anyway.

    I hate movie critics. I'd say something else here, but it'd probably warrant a banning.
     
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